Yeson voice feminization surgery 2.0

[anjaq]

Yes, I can confirm some of what was said about the healing process. Dr Kim explained to me as well that the first week is the external healing and the internal healing takes those 8 weeks for the min healing and then some more months for everything to heal completely and the scar tissue to form. He also said that a low and fully vibrating note is more damaging than other notes. So when I said "Ja" once in the first week, I probably did more damage than with the other two words. Coughing is really the worst though, I have never asked him about sneezing - it cannot be good either...
The way I understood it though, the internal healing is more about voice health and clarity while the healing of the suture itself should be what makes the pitch change. Apparently there is also some scar contraction happening later in the healing process - weeks to months - that also puts some tension on the vocal folds again, increasing pitch a bit more, which is why for some the pitch increase seems to come later. Thats how I understood his explanation about the late pitch gain in some.

I like the Synatura as well. It helped a lot and I got a whole package of it to take with me for the weeks after and I used half of it. I also took some very strong prescription cough suppressant with me to replace the ones that end after a week. So I continued medicating myself against coughing for some while after the first week. I also took some of that cough suppressant during the nights in Korea in addition to the ones I got from him, just to make double sure I don't cough in the nights, after I heard that apparently subconscious me coughs a lot, I was afraid to cough again while I was half out, just like in the wakeup room.

Its up to the next Yeson patients to just take the information already posted here as a given, not ask for that again, but ask new questions - Like how much coughing does affect the internal healing or what is the effect of bad internal healing. Or why age matters so much. Or what to do about sneezing?

[Dana88]

Yes, I can confirm some of what was said about the healing process. Dr Kim explained to me as well that the first week is the external healing and the internal healing takes those 8 weeks for the min healing and then some more months for everything to heal completely and the scar tissue to form. He also said that a low and fully vibrating note is more damaging than other notes. So when I said "Ja" once in the first week, I probably did more damage than with the other two words. Coughing is really the worst though, I have never asked him about sneezing - it cannot be good either...
The way I understood it though, the internal healing is more about voice health and clarity while the healing of the suture itself should be what makes the pitch change. Apparently there is also some scar contraction happening later in the healing process - weeks to months - that also puts some tension on the vocal folds again, increasing pitch a bit more, which is why for some the pitch increase seems to come later. Thats how I understood his explanation about the late pitch gain in some.

I like the Synatura as well. It helped a lot and I got a whole package of it to take with me for the weeks after and I used half of it. I also took some very strong prescription cough suppressant with me to replace the ones that end after a week. So I continued medicating myself against coughing for some while after the first week. I also took some of that cough suppressant during the nights in Korea in addition to the ones I got from him, just to make double sure I don't cough in the nights, after I heard that apparently subconscious me coughs a lot, I was afraid to cough again while I was half out, just like in the wakeup room.

Its up to the next Yeson patients to just take the information already posted here as a given, not ask for that again, but ask new questions - Like how much coughing does affect the internal healing or what is the effect of bad internal healing. Or why age matters so much. Or what to do about sneezing?

I actually asked about sneezing. Jessie said same as coughing. Try blowing your nose to see if that releases whatever is irritating it and making you wanna sneeze, and basically avoid sneezing as much as possible, but if you must sneeze then try and do it without vocalization.

Also on the age front, I could be wrong, but I would assume it's just because generally as we age we don't bounce back from things and heal as quickly as we do when we're younger.

[Dena]

I am worried about sneezing as well because I live in Phoenix and this time of the year we have dust storm that kick up a bunch of pollen. Most of the year it's not a problem so I checked with my doctor and he said I could take the antihistamine I normally use. I will remain on it for at least a month and so far I have had no desire to sneeze. Antihistamines become less effective the longer you take them so I will stop them once I am sure the voice has healed enough.

[Teslagirl]

Yes, I can confirm some of what was said about the healing process. Dr Kim explained to me as well that the first week is the external healing and the internal healing takes those 8 weeks for the min healing and then some more months for everything to heal completely and the scar tissue to form. He also said that a low and fully vibrating note is more damaging than other notes. So when I said "Ja" once in the first week, I probably did more damage than with the other two words. Coughing is really the worst though, I have never asked him about sneezing - it cannot be good either...
The way I understood it though, the internal healing is more about voice health and clarity while the healing of the suture itself should be what makes the pitch change.

So it's likely that by coughing in the first week, I've damaged the potential to increase pitch, but maybe not the overall clarity, which depends on the healing after the first week?

Sarah.

[Dena]

So it's likely that by coughing in the first week, I've damaged the potential to increase pitch, but maybe not the overall clarity, which depends on the healing after the first week?

Sarah.

I have looked closely at Dr Haben's work and I have no reason to believe Dr Kim's work is any less robust. The placement of the suture is the main determining factor for the amount of pitch you will gain. The area beyond the suture may fuse a bit more giving you a small additional gain in pitch. As long as the suture remains in place, abuse of the voice should only have a very small effect on the pitch  outcome. The no noise rules are to aid in proper healing and prevent you from injuring the surgical site delaying the formation of the final voice. A few slips are going to do little or no damage but a cough fit would be very bad. The doctors sometimes put to much fear in our head over this in order to ensure their orders are closely followed. Mistakes will happen but control what you can and don't worry about what you can't.

[Teslagirl]

Thanks Dena, I hope that's the case. It wasn't a coughing fit, just a single cough caused by the build-up of phlegm in the back of my throat. Maybe two occasions.

I'm seeing Dr Kim again on Tuesday.

Sarah.

[iKate]

I meant extra of the expectorants and anti-inflammatorys not the antibiotics :-).

No I don't think it was necessary and neither did he.

[iKate]

Thanks Dena, I hope that's the case. It wasn't a coughing fit, just a single cough caused by the build-up of phlegm in the back of my throat. Maybe two occasions.

I'm seeing Dr Kim again on Tuesday.

Sarah.

Good luck Sarah. I'm sure you will be FINE.

[anjaq]

Well, regarding age, i had the impression that with more age, not only did the healing and formation of an increased pitch take longer, but also the final feminization was less? Why would that be, I don't know

The suture itself is very robust, I don't really know what coughing or speaking does. Certainly it most unlikely would destroy the suture. I think I coughed probably more than everyone else here together and the suture was in place and looks like everyone else's. So the damage probably happens elsewhere?

[Dena]

Well, regarding age, i had the impression that with more age, not only did the healing and formation of an increased pitch take longer, but also the final feminization was less? Why would that be, I don't know

The suture itself is very robust, I don't really know what coughing or speaking does. Certainly it most unlikely would destroy the suture. I think I coughed probably more than everyone else here together and the suture was in place and looks like everyone else's. So the damage probably happens elsewhere?

I don't have the full answer on that but in my final meeting with Dr Haben he told me I would get the 60Hz bump in my voice that he promised before the surgery and I might get as much as 80hz depending on the healing. As healing is different from person to person, he couldn't tell me just how much of that extra 20Hz would be mine. Age affects healing and older people do have problems healing from simple injuries. In my case, my body is young for my age and I still heal well. I suspect it has to do with healing the area beyond the suture. If the area fuses, you get the extra pitch. If the area is separate, the cords are free to move closer to the suture and the voice will be a bit lower. A large amount of abuse could rip the healing apart back to the suture losing the little extra pitch you might have had. It would be interesting to look at one of your pictures months after surgery and see just how much past the sutures the cords are fused. I can't do that in my case because Haben uses a suture that dissolves so you lose the landmark for healing.

[anjaq]

It would be interesting to look at one of your pictures months after surgery and see just how much past the sutures the cords are fused.

Here is a rather current picture:


And this is from right after the surgery (7 days post op examination)


I am not sure what to make of it. The sutures are barely visible, they are of some green-blueish color.

[Dena]

You are right about it being hard to see but to my untrained eye ball, it looks like you healed beyond the suture and the amount of healing is the same from 7 days to the current photo. The remaining pitch gain then would be the result of the reduction in swelling and damage that takes place long after surgery. If Dr Kim was happy with how things looked after the final exam, then I don't think the surgery was ever damaged by anything you did and any restricts on pitch would have happened unconditionally. There are limits to what this surgery can accomplish and you seem to be working at the upper limits of it.

[Teslagirl]

Good luck Sarah. I'm sure you will be FINE.

Thanks Kate, you've been really supportive to me; I'm sure we'd be friends if we met.
I'm at a stage where I'm feeling quite down; not wanting to go, but missing home as well, and unsure of my surgery results together with some other stuff. People on our road have a hard time sometimes, don't we?

I just have today to see sights of Seoul and I've been in my room most of the time. If there was one place you'd recommend, what would it be?

Thanks again,

Sarah.

[Teslagirl]

Can anyone tell me the best place to change my Wan back into UK pounds when I leave Korea? Is there somewhere at the airport?

Thanks,

Sarah.

[Dana88]

Thanks Kate, you've been really supportive to me; I'm sure we'd be friends if we met.
I'm at a stage where I'm feeling quite down; not wanting to go, but missing home as well, and unsure of my surgery results together with some other stuff. People on our road have a hard time sometimes, don't we?

I just have today to see sights of Seoul and I've been in my room most of the time. If there was one place you'd recommend, what would it be?

Thanks again,

Sarah.

Hey Sarah! One of my favorite things that I did in Seoul was seeing NANTA. It's in the Myeongdong area. It's like a mix of a dance show with cooking with tons of physical comedy.  Just a quick forewarning: you just have to be prepared to laugh without vocalization. Because it's quite funny. If that worries you too much, Gyeongbokgung Palace is awesome if you wanna see some history. Both the Korean Folk Museum and the Museum of Modern Art are right by the Palace. The National Museum is nice too. Also the Hanook Village is adorable. Try and have some fun!

You should be able to exchange money back to pounds at the airport.

[iKate]

I just have today to see sights of Seoul and I've been in my room most of the time. If there was one place you'd recommend, what would it be?

Thanks again,

Sarah.

Hi Sarah,

There is so much to see/do. It really depends on your interest.

N Seoul Tower and Namsan mountain is good. They have traditional shows. Bring a padlock and lock it on the tree and place the key in the box. It's for luck. However, you have to take a bus to get there. The seoul city tour bus is 12000 won and makes a lot of stops. They speak English as well. It may be a bit much to squeeze in, so if you're playing it safe, then this may not be for you. But the views are breathtaking, despite the smog. The tower itself has a scenic view from the restroom... the men's restroom. Obviously I did not go. I could have played male for a day I guess but I did not even have clothes to, lol.

Myeongdong is a must, as Dana said. The market is a nice atmosphere and there are tons of stores with people hawking goods and giving free samples and gifts. There is also Myeongdong Cathedral which is a nice sight to see. I am Catholic so I attended mass as well. There is the upscale part of Myeongdong with high fashion and there is the market which has bargain basement prices. Bring cash if you want souvenirs as sellers are willing to haggle a little.

If you like electronics, the yongsan electronics market is good. The I'Park mall has floors and floors of stuff. Lots of cheap goods, used mobile phones etc. I went there to get a few things such as plug adapters.

Just a few things. I have more. I'll post a few later.

[Teslagirl]

Hey Sarah! One of my favorite things that I did in Seoul was seeing NANTA. It's in the Myeongdong area. It's like a mix of a dance show with cooking with tons of physical comedy.  Just a quick forewarning: you just have to be prepared to laugh without vocalization. Because it's quite funny. If that worries you too much, Gyeongbokgung Palace is awesome if you wanna see some history. Both the Korean Folk Museum and the Museum of Modern Art are right by the Palace. The National Museum is nice too. Also the Hanook Village is adorable. Try and have some fun!

You should be able to exchange money back to pounds at the airport.

Thanks Dana.

In the end I went to see Gyeongbokgung Palace and the Korean National Folk Museum, but it was so, so, hot! People kept staring at me like I was from Mars... It stayed hot until I got back to Phil House at 10.20 after having to put up with the beery advances of a drunken Korean man on the subway train back. It was so uncomfortable I got off the train and caught the next one instead. A great day though, despite that.

[Teslagirl]

Hi Sarah,

There is so much to see/do. It really depends on your interest.

N Seoul Tower and Namsan mountain is good. They have traditional shows. Bring a padlock and lock it on the tree and place the key in the box. It's for luck. However, you have to take a bus to get there. The seoul city tour bus is 12000 won and makes a lot of stops. They speak English as well. It may be a bit much to squeeze in, so if you're playing it safe, then this may not be for you. But the views are breathtaking, despite the smog. The tower itself has a scenic view from the restroom... the men's restroom. Obviously I did not go. I could have played male for a day I guess but I did not even have clothes to, lol.

Myeongdong is a must, as Dana said. The market is a nice atmosphere and there are tons of stores with people hawking goods and giving free samples and gifts. There is also Myeongdong Cathedral which is a nice sight to see. I am Catholic so I attended mass as well. There is the upscale part of Myeongdong with high fashion and there is the market which has bargain basement prices. Bring cash if you want souvenirs as sellers are willing to haggle a little.

If you like electronics, the yongsan electronics market is good. The I'Park mall has floors and floors of stuff. Lots of cheap goods, used mobile phones etc. I went there to get a few things such as plug adapters.

Just a few things. I have more. I'll post a few later.

I tried to find Namsan mountain; got off the train at the right place, walked for 20 minutes, but couldn't find it. (How can you lose a mountain?) I ended up at Seoul Station with no sign of the place. It was dark, but I assumed I'd easily see a huge mountain! In the end I just went back to the station I'd got off at. I haven't much time tomorrow as I have an appointment at id hospital in the morning (to talk about V-line surgery amongst other things) and Dr Kim in the afternoon. Then I go home on Wednesday!

Love,

Sarah.

[Teslagirl]

Does anyone know if the Airport Limousine Bus takes the T-Money card as payment? (Debating the best way to get back to Incheon International Airport). Any suggestions?

Sarah.

[iKate]

Seoul City Tour Bus will take you there to N Seoul tower. Then you walk a little bit up the mountain. 12000 won will cover unlimited bus trips with that bus for the day. You can also see the Korean War Memorial and National Museum of Korea (NMK).

Easy from phil house. Line #5 to Gwanghwamun Station and exit at exit #6. They take cash and all major credit cards but you must buy the ticket at the booth.

If you're into gambling there are a few casinos. Paradise Casino is one where we went (my mom looooooves casinos) but I couldn't stay long as it was just too smoky. There is also Seven Luck casino which I believe is non-smoking (mom went there by herself). Foreigners only and you need to show your passport. Paradise will give you 20,000 won bonus cash to gamble if you sign up for their club card (no cost, it's a card you put in the slots or the dealers will swipe and you get bonus plays). I played roulette and doubled it so that was 40,000 won free for me .

Next to Phil House there is the Children's Grand park which has a number of things including a zoo.

If you want you can try for a DMZ tour with North Korea but when I was there it was closed due to MERS.