Yeson voice feminization surgery 2.0

[iKate]

Does anyone know if the Airport Limousine Bus takes the T-Money card as payment? (Debating the best way to get back to Incheon International Airport). Any suggestions?

Sarah.

It looks like you'll have to buy a ticket for that and they don't take T-Money.

I would try the airport express rail. It's an express train from seoul station to Incheon. I believe you can use T money and you get your own seat, so it's not like the subway. You can also do customs and immigration in advance. 

[iKate]

One of my colleagues today made a comment, that with my new voice everything more or less comes together now and I don't seem "odd" as a beautiful woman with a deep voice.

This means that passing is now effortless, which was the goal.

Nobody questions my voice at all.

I did an experiment over the weekend. I went in a T shirt and jeans and guyed it up as much as possible. But I talked to people in my new voice. One person looked at me weird, another person said "that lady over there" pointing to me. One person called me sir before I talked to him, then he apologized.

That was a one time thing... I had to take a long hot shower with lime after that. No way am I dressing up as a guy again!

I emailed Jessie the voice sample and she said that she is happy I am happy with the outcome and that the exercises will help after the 2nd month. She says pitch will continue to rise. She also said keep her informed as to progress.

[Teslagirl]

I'm so very, very pleased for you Kate; it was everything you wanted. Now, no more guy stuff, ever, OK?

Thanks for all the information as well!

Sarah.

(Looking forward to getting back to cold, wet, old England...)

[iKate]

So today clarity improved quite a bit. Like I'm almost back to totally normal speaking. Voice does not get tired but I don't speak too loudly. I was in a meeting and was talking back and forth no issues. Fry is almost gone and breathiness is reduced but residual enough that it aids the femininity of my voice.

Even my colleagues were saying that I just talk like a normal woman now.

I was talking to our current crop of college interns who really don't know my status and I'm confident that my voice will never be an issue. It's just one more thing not to worry about.

I am worried about month 4 which is when botox wears off and I take clonazepam. But I will cross that bridge when I reach it.

Oh, and Sarah, I'll be sure to look you up when I come to the UK!

[iKate]

BTW, someone asked about the rumble whether it is phlegm or your voice deepening.

I would think it's both.

2 weeks post-op I said a few words and it came out deep almost to my original voice. As you can see once the month or two is over the pitch rise is sudden and dramatic. I believe Anja said it's something like this ___/.

I have a recording that I will share privately upon request, but the pitch was almost to my pre-op voice. So don't worry, it takes time and when they mean 1-2 months they really do mean 1-2 months.

As for age, I'm not that young. I'll be 37 next month. I have a few other health issues so I'm not really the healthiest person either. I was, however, high pitched all through secondary school and my apple really isn't visible. I have had low T all my life and to conceive I had to have plenty of help...

[Dana88]

BTW, someone asked about the rumble whether it is phlegm or your voice deepening.

I would think it's both.

2 weeks post-op I said a few words and it came out deep almost to my original voice. As you can see once the month or two is over the pitch rise is sudden and dramatic. I believe Anja said it's something like this ___/.

I have a recording that I will share privately upon request, but the pitch was almost to my pre-op voice. So don't worry, it takes time and when they mean 1-2 months they really do mean 1-2 months.

As for age, I'm not that young. I'll be 37 next month. I have a few other health issues so I'm not really the healthiest person either. I was, however, high pitched all through secondary school and my apple really isn't visible. I have had low T all my life and to conceive I had to have plenty of help...

That was me :-). I've been very worried over the past few days because I usually take Allegra-D since I have very bad seasonal allergies. Dr. Kim said no decongestants for 8 weeks, so I switched to just regular Allegra. I have had so much chest phlegm/congestion/tightness since switching that often I just breathe up gobs of mucus which then feel like they constrict my wind pipe and then I have to carefully clear my throat trying as hard as I can not to make a noise. And this has been happening three or four times a day for the past three days making me slightly concerned, especially cause my throat ends up feeling raw and irritated by the end of the day. Dr. Kim said if it's really a problem I can go back on the medication with the decongestant just make sure to drink a ton of water. I'm giving it one more day, but if it's still a  problem I'm going to do it. I feel like dryness is probably the lesser of two evils.

Anyway, about the low rumble, I was saying that it happens sometimes upon exhaling. I actually emailed Jessie about it. She said it's most certainly mucus and not my cords vibrating because physiologically it's impossible for my cords to vibrate when I'm exhaling because they are open to allow air to pass through and the only way sound can be made is if they're closed.

[iKate]

Anyway, about the low rumble, I was saying that it happens sometimes upon exhaling. I actually emailed Jessie about it. She said it's most certainly mucus and not my cords vibrating because physiologically it's impossible for my cords to vibrate when I'm exhaling because they are open to allow air to pass through and the only way sound can be made is if they're closed.

Oh, definitely. That rumble is definitely mucus.

As for the folds not vibrating when you breathe, that is also true. In fact I saw  in my follow up exam when Dr Kim asked me to breathe in and out. So yes, she is 100% correct.

An exercise when your voice gets better, try speaking when breathing in through your nose. You will see that it is difficult to make much if any noise.

I get a little of it now but not as much before. I had some other issues besides androphonia that Dr Kim took care of. I don't have to clear my throat much and I avoid doing so anyway.

[Dana88]

Oh, definitely. That rumble is definitely mucus.

As for the folds not vibrating when you breathe, that is also true. In fact I saw  in my follow up exam when Dr Kim asked me to breathe in and out. So yes, she is 100% correct.

An exercise when your voice gets better, try speaking when breathing in through your nose. You will see that it is difficult to make much if any noise.

I get a little of it now but not as much before. I had some other issues besides androphonia that Dr Kim took care of. I don't have to clear my throat much and I avoid doing so anyway.

Likewise. During the preop he noticed that I had incomplete closure on one end of my vocal cords, but it was the end that was going to be dissected and sutured so it was relatively irrelevant. There were also small things he didn't see in the preop that when my cords were magnified intraop he noticed. Like apparently I did have a small amount of assymetry, and also he discovered I had nodes, both of which he corrected.

It's funny, I double majored in musical theatre and international affairs in undergrad. I had always been a tenor growing up (which with a fundamental frequency of 152 that makes sense). However during placements my freshmen year I came down with awful bronchitis and I had to sing over it because of placements. I always said my voice was never the same after that. I thought I had created psychological blocks around my singing, which I'm sure was part of it, but also now I go, I think I gave myself nodes during those placements.

Also as a side note, I will say that when I've accidentally made some ambient noises, like vocalizing a laugh or things like that, it does *seem* higher. I hope I'm not imagining it :-P.

[barbie]

Thanks Dana.

In the end I went to see Gyeongbokgung Palace and the Korean National Folk Museum, but it was so, so, hot! People kept staring at me like I was from Mars... It stayed hot until I got back to Phil House at 10.20 after having to put up with the beery advances of a drunken Korean man on the subway train back. It was so uncomfortable I got off the train and caught the next one instead. A great day though, despite that.

You may wear a hat and sun glasses to avoid staring of people in the street. In the street, nearly everybody watches me, too. Even some men and women shout like "she is so much tall" and etc.

Drunken people... It is widespread in S. Korea. http://www.blackoutkorea.com/

barbie~~

[Dana88]

Thanks Dana.

In the end I went to see Gyeongbokgung Palace and the Korean National Folk Museum, but it was so, so, hot! People kept staring at me like I was from Mars... It stayed hot until I got back to Phil House at 10.20 after having to put up with the beery advances of a drunken Korean man on the subway train back. It was so uncomfortable I got off the train and caught the next one instead. A great day though, despite that.

No prob! Glad you had a good day :-). Also, EVERYONE stares in Seoul. Happened to me too. Don't let that get to you too much.

[Teslagirl]

So today clarity improved quite a bit. Like I'm almost back to totally normal speaking. Voice does not get tired but I don't speak too loudly. I was in a meeting and was talking back and forth no issues. Fry is almost gone and breathiness is reduced but residual enough that it aids the femininity of my voice.

Even my colleagues were saying that I just talk like a normal woman now.

I was talking to our current crop of college interns who really don't know my status and I'm confident that my voice will never be an issue. It's just one more thing not to worry about.

I am worried about month 4 which is when botox wears off and I take clonazepam. But I will cross that bridge when I reach it.

Oh, and Sarah, I'll be sure to look you up when I come to the UK!

Yes, you must come sometime! You'd be very welcome!!

It sounds like things just keep getting better for you Kate! These little things which other women take for granted are wonderful when you've lived with something else all your life and then it's fixed. Just like you, I'm hoping for some sort of improvement for when our first year undergraduates arrive later in the year.

I saw Dr Kim this afternoon and he said everything is fine, but like Dana, I have had phlegm which builds up and it's really difficult not to make a noise if it comes up. I also had the Botox injections. I'm going to the airport in the morning for a 10:45am flight to Heathrow, so I've got to get up really early, like 4:00am or something... (set out at 6:00, subway for one stop and then hopefully the airport bus. I think it's the easiest. Incidentally, Phil House says the airport bus will accept the T-Money card. I'll try anyhow. Thanks to you, and Kate and Anja and Dana and Dena and Barbie, and anyone else who has given me advice!!

Love from Sarah x.

[iKate]

Koreans stare at foreigners is what I was told. Not even being a typical white American (I am from Trinidad) I stick out even more. I maybe saw 3 people with my skin complexion when I was there. One was a shop owner in Itaewon. He was from Nepal. A couple others seemed like either Indian tourists or workers. And of course Americans near Yongsan base.

That said most people were polite to me. They just stare! Well, I stare back! And I smile

[iKate]

I saw Dr Kim this afternoon and he said everything is fine, but like Dana, I have had phlegm which builds up and it's really difficult not to make a noise if it comes up. I also had the Botox injections. I'm going to the airport in the morning for a 10:45am flight to Heathrow, so I've got to get up really early, like 4:00am or something... (set out at 6:00, subway for one stop and then hopefully the airport bus. I think it's the easiest. Incidentally, Phil House says the airport bus will accept the T-Money card. I'll try anyhow. Thanks to you, and Kate and Anja and Dana and Dena and Barbie, and anyone else who has given me advice!!

Love from Sarah x.

That's good to know. I'll keep that option in mind when letting people in the future know how to get around Seoul... I may go back sooner or later, just because, or maybe for other "work." They seem to have good surgeons there for FFS and other things.

I remember Yeson also had a shuttle service but I'm not sure it is that early or even if it covers return trips TO the airport.

The phlegm was a problem. I tried gently to get rid of it. Water helped, but just opening mouth and "hhhhhhhhhh" a few times brought some of it up.

Enjoy your flight back to LHR and I'll def look you up when I stop over in London.

[iKate]

No prob! Glad you had a good day :-). Also, EVERYONE stares in Seoul. Happened to me too. Don't let that get to you too much.

My mom was even more uncomfortable than me with the staring. I guess I'm used to it being trans but for her it was totally new.

[iKate]

So the head voice vs chest voice thing.

I have been listening closely to cis women and a lot of them are in varying degrees of chest voice.

So it looks like the assessment of me still being in chest voice yet sounding feminine is spot on.

However, I don't think my voice is mostly chest voice. It is more biased to head voice rather than chest voice.

My opinion based on my observation is that to have a natural sounding voice, it must be at least partially chest voice. This is different from what I used to think. I once thought that I had to go all head voice to sound feminine, even with VFS. That is so not the case.

[anjaq]

You are right about it being hard to see but to my untrained eye ball, it looks like you healed beyond the suture and the amount of healing is the same from 7 days to the current photo. The remaining pitch gain then would be the result of the reduction in swelling and damage that takes place long after surgery. If Dr Kim was happy with how things looked after the final exam, then I don't think the surgery was ever damaged by anything you did and any restricts on pitch would have happened unconditionally. There are limits to what this surgery can accomplish and you seem to be working at the upper limits of it.

I wonder why that would be - me being at the limits of what that surgery can do.
I took great care after the surgery to not do bad stuff. no speak time was even 5 weeks, I just had few moments when i overused the voice after the 5 weeks,... I just have to wait and if I still feel something is not yet right at the 9 month mark, I need to bug Dr Kim about it

[anjaq]

Maybe I should try this "dressing up as guy" thing one day and if I really pass then. I would be more relaxed. But maybe I should first do a ffs, otherwise I might get disappointed and be devastated.

[Dena]

I wonder why that would be - me being at the limits of what that surgery can do.
I took great care after the surgery to not do bad stuff. no speak time was even 5 weeks, I just had few moments when i overused the voice after the 5 weeks,... I just have to wait and if I still feel something is not yet right at the 9 month mark, I need to bug Dr Kim about it

My nose had swelling in it a year after surgery. It didn't show but I could feel it when I touched it. I don't know how long it took for all the swelling to go down after my SRS but it took a long time for my pee elevation to get low enough that I didn't have to rest my chest on my legs. At two weeks I can still feel a fair amount to swelling in my cords and it's only the last day they started to vibrate. Before that it was a loud whisper. In theory next monday I should be able to talk but I have a pretty good idea it will not be ready for prime time. Dr Haban indicated it could take 3 to 6 months for healing to take place but I wouldn't be surprised if it takes closer to a year.

I am not going to do the guy thing but when the voice is working correctly I will use the phone and fast food order stands as my "test".
The phone test is simple enough. I get calls to sell me stuff I don't want and they are always asking for Dena. They seem somewhat stumped when I indicate that's me. If in the future they accept the voice as female, I know it's working.

[iKate]

I wonder why that would be - me being at the limits of what that surgery can do.
I took great care after the surgery to not do bad stuff. no speak time was even 5 weeks, I just had few moments when i overused the voice after the 5 weeks,... I just have to wait and if I still feel something is not yet right at the 9 month mark, I need to bug Dr Kim about it

I did a lot of prep before the surgery even taking iron supplements and getting my diabetes super controlled. Even losing weight. But that was prompted by test results.

But I think some of it is just natural.

As I said I was high pitched for most of my teens and my apple doesn't really show. You have to feel around for it too as it's high up. So that may have helped with my post op sound.

I also had no training at all for feminization. In fact I had quite the opposite - training to project my voice and sound authoritative. That part is puzzling.

I looked at some of the examples on YouTube and I was worried that I would not come out like one of the "good" results and be stuck with an androgynous voice. I was really really worried.

[Teslagirl]

Hello again.

Well I got home safely, and jet lag doesn't seem to be a problem much; I just stayed up longer until normal bedtime for the UK. I have had numerous small 'accidents', including a sneeze and I'm just going to wait and see how it finally works out.

Does anyone know if the month without talking includes that week after the surgery, but before seeing Dr Kim for the last time? or does it start from after the final appointment? He gave me more Synatura and five days more tablets to take home with me. I had the botox injections as well, which really don't hurt, but he said I will probably need more at home.

It's really frustrating not being able to use the telephone! Not everyone uses email (like my GP) and the only way to contact them is to go physically, which is a real pain.

The most embarassing thing whilst in Korea was being offered the elderly seats on subway trains. This happened twice, and sometimes by people who I thought looked at least as old as me. Perhaps I will go back to id clinic for the various facelift surgeries they offered me!

A good thing was using the women-only queue at Incheon security on the way back. I saw a sign saying 'Women' and thought I was required to go that way. It's wonderfully old fashioned, but I was through security much faster than the people (both men and women) who had chosen to use the standard queue.

By the way, I can see how some people like the subway trains, but I found them always crowded, and certainly when I went, almost unbearably hot and humid despite the air conditioning which was really having a hard time keeping up. I did notice that Koreans only sat by me if there was absolutely no alternative, and sometimes they preferred to stand instead. Taxis are fairly cheap and private, and often the air conditioning is more effective than on subway trains.

The best thing about getting back was having traditional Harry Ramsden's fish and chips with loads of ketchup shortly after leaving Heathrow.

Sarah.