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Do I Look, or Could I Pass, as Female? 5.0

Started by stephaniec, August 06, 2015, 12:24:43 AM

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alex82

Quote from: Deborah on June 06, 2016, 04:52:17 PM
I'm not sure I have ever posted in this thread but here goes.  Keep in mind I'm closer to 60 than I am to 50.  I took the picture this morning shortly after I got up so no makeup, and no clothes for that matter.  :-)

It's my own hair which is coming along slowly.  I look in the mirror and alternate between thinking I look ok and other times thinking I am hopeless.


You do look excellent for your age, which can only continue working in your favour.

Your hair looks great. You could have that done today in a neat bob and have a sophisticated female hairstyle. You might love it so much you don't go longer.
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Willowicious

Gets girls! Please could I have your input? :) Here's me sans-makeup (I.e. do you think I male fail?):



Here's me en femme:





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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alex82

Without make up, you look good.

With it, no. Go to a make up artist and have them show you how to apply it and what products are likely to enhance your face.

The eyebrows are way too much, particularly with a lack of any other prominent eye make up. I know big darkened eyebrows are fashionable - but not on their own - you need to go the whole way with the liner and the lashes as well if that's your look, and wax away more from the middle.

You don't suit red lipstick. You have a very nice natural lip colour - something closer to that would be better.

You have a lovely nose.
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2cherry

It is always good to remember that everyone will judge you differently. Some say you pass, others might think you do not. And there is a reason for that, which hasn't anything to do with your transition or even YOU.

Here is what I found out:

When we judge a photograph, the first thing we respond to are features that stick out the most. Like beard shadow, a big nose and so forth. The obvious one is the beard shadow and everyone will agree on that. Now some might think that your nose is fine, and other might think it's totally male. Why? I think I solved this question that has nagged me for years:

When we are asked to judge a facial feature, we seem to run a routine through our minds that weighs the extremes we have been exposed to. For example: If I have seen females with a big nose in my life, I might judge you passable. Someone else hasn't seen as much females with a big nose in their lives, they might judge you not passable. And this is not about the size alone, it is also about shape, angle, distance between nose and mouth. Conversely, when we see a facial feature we have only seen on males, but never on females, our bias kicks in based upon what we've been exposed to.

So it's my thesis that:

When we recognize a feature we have seen before on another gender, we tend to get confused and look for more cues until the weighing process is satisfied with the value of the combined cues which equals the initial observation of those who we weigh. In other words: first, we tend to see what we want to see and see what we know. If in doubt, this weighing routine kicks in and produces a result which is compared to what they already known to be "female". The weighing routine is complicated by the bias of two key issues: 1) we already know your gender. 2) we also know your birth gender. And probably a 3rd. 3) we don't want to hurt any feelings and avoid social conflicts arising out of that.

Now, normally we are not judged on passability in real life. There is no one who goes about their day, looking for trans people and judge how they pass. Just as you do not try to see if cis-genders pass, because you assume they are cis. While in fact, they might be trans. People do not expect to see us, so they are already biased to judge you as female when enough immediate cues are preset. Which are mostly hair, the shape of the body, breasts and clothes. If these cues are not present, or if some cues are out of context people will pause and try to understand what makes them feel doubt. People are neophiles, which means that any novel things will catch their attention by virtue of biology. Then they run the cue-routine to figure it out, and if that is satisfied you are judged female. If not, then you are either overwhelmingly male, or their cue-routine hints at unknown facial features that have not encountered before on a female. If that happens, they pause and try to learn what they see. If they are >-bleeped-<s, insecure bigots, they might harass you. if not, they could figure you are trans, or a very manly female. Even in this stage they still might not see you as trans, but simply doubting. So chances are that you will pass in public on confidence alone. Even after all this, the last thing that they (want to) do is confirming your own insecurities, unless you show them through your body language.

All in all, it's pretty complicated.

I hope that anyone who wants their picture judged, know that it's not as simple as asking others their opinions. You might get a general idea -like dropping the beard shadow- but the intricacies of passing are far more complex, and go beyond a mere YES or NO.


1977: Born.
2009: HRT
2012: RLE
2014: SRS
2016: FFS
2017: rejoicing

focus on the positive, focus on solutions.
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SashaGrace

Let's try this thread again before it's too long!! Hasn't gone too well before but let's see...



Hit me with it!!
'Yea though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I will fear no evil.' Psalm 23, Verse 4
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Hannah Samira

Quote from: SashaGrace on June 18, 2016, 12:19:47 PM
Let's try this thread again before it's too long!! Hasn't gone too well before but let's see...



Hit me with it!!

Really cute!!! also I absolutely love your hair now!! 😘 x
Twitter: @HannahSamira14
Instagram: @hannah_samira14

:angel:
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Kitty June

Quote from: SashaGrace on June 18, 2016, 12:19:47 PM
Let's try this thread again before it's too long!! Hasn't gone too well before but let's see...



Hit me with it!!
Looking good to me
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SashaGrace

Cheers girls :D Starting a new job soon so I'm getting very paranoid about the way I look again lately, haven't had a problem in all the time in this job but it doesn't stop the worry!!
'Yea though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I will fear no evil.' Psalm 23, Verse 4
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Sebby Michelango

Quote from: SashaGrace on June 18, 2016, 12:19:47 PM
Let's try this thread again before it's too long!! Hasn't gone too well before but let's see...



Hit me with it!!

You looks fine for me; you do pass.
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brittbaby

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SashaGrace

Thanks all :D The jeggings were a handy bargain, £3 from a sale rail!! Love it :D
'Yea though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I will fear no evil.' Psalm 23, Verse 4
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Karen_A

I know it's bit off topic but there is somethings I would like to ask...

This not a membership only site so I assume anyone browsing the internet can see the pictures posted here...

Is most every one here out and proud? Does anyone worry about having their pictures accessible like this? Anyone worried about effects on future employment etc?

I'm not stealth but neither am I 'out' in the sense I don't talk about my past outside of with other TSes and those that knew me 'before', and I would never post a picture in a public forum (even if I was good looking - which I'm not) ... and in the past when I posted too much personal info in the open it came back to bite me.

In general some who have posted here look very good... but some have significant issues beyond needing more electrolysis or better makeup ... the type of issues that only full FFS would solve if they want to pass really well (I had full FFS with Dr O a long time ago so I know what it can do).

I would be very hesitant to say that to anyone because i know it can hurt and that some will not be able to afford it ... do others feel the same way about giving feedback?

- karen



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SashaGrace

I don't mind, I don't hide it :) My view is if anyone is looking this place up who knows me and doesn't know I'm trans they'll be a reason they're here and probably OK with it, if not I don't care.

My only employment worry is parents of the kids I teach but that's less important now as I'm studying a Masters in Education and thus will be moving on to education theory most likely in the LGBT sector of education so it's pretty much pre requisite to be a member of the community.

I'm nice if I'm giving feedback, I like to be positive but I don't expect it back, I've had my share of blunt and over harsh analysis on the way I look here but that seems to have subsided. My story and pictures are not exclusive here, I'm also plastered over the website of the Doctor who oversees my care these days. I think it's good to show others in the education sector you can be LGBT and still work with kids, it's not the end of the world :D
'Yea though I walk through the shadow of the valley of death, I will fear no evil.' Psalm 23, Verse 4
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Quote from: Karen_A on June 25, 2016, 06:47:33 PM
Is most every one here out and proud? Does anyone worry about having their pictures accessible like this? Anyone worried about effects on future employment etc?

I think most of us who have posted pictures here are clearly out, and proud (at most) of our status, or comfortable enough (at least) with our status, yes.

The people who are not posting pictures I assume are either protective of their identity, insecure of their looks, or just think it's weird to publicly put their face out there.  Maybe all three; maybe many more reasons than that... maybe still closeted? /shrug

Yeah it's public viewing, but who is actually coming here?  I assume (totally pulling numbers out of my butt here) that 98% of the viewership are transgender people themselves, 1% are >-bleeped-<s, and 1% are random people.  No clue of actual numbers obviously, but I just can't help but feel that no one cares... I mean, like, my avatar pic for example... I'm not very worried of that pic getting out there because it's just quite inconsequential to my real life who sees that and what is done with it (pretty sure not a damn thing) outside this site (ex: hate groups such as /r/transfags reposting my pic and making fun of it.  I'd laugh at myself right along with them, frankly.) :icon_rah:

Future employment?  Nah; if I lose my job and apply to another and a boss recognizes me, I truly believe they would have more explaining to do than myself.

Quote from: SashaGrace on June 25, 2016, 07:37:53 PM
if anyone is looking this place up who knows me and doesn't know I'm trans they'll be a reason they're here and probably OK with it

Exactly; well said Sasha.


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Jalynn

I can't say that I am out. I have posted a few pics, something at one point I never thought I would do. I posted with sunglasses because I am thinking it would be really hard to tell its me when as a guy. Then I posted a few without sunglasses because I wanted a good opinion. Having come to finding many of the guys that like trans girls seem to be straightness guys but I doubt they look here. I do have some confidence that I do look not that bad as a woman from the feedback and that makes it easier for me. If I actually do look nice in pictures as a woman doesn't it make it harder to mock me if someone does see? I recently started a job and there is a trans person on the crew. Shocking for me to say the least and realized it is a good chance she is on forums like this.
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Hannah Samira

Quote from: Karen_A on June 25, 2016, 06:47:33 PM
I know it's bit off topic but there is somethings I would like to ask...

This not a membership only site so I assume anyone browsing the internet can see the pictures posted here...

Is most every one here out and proud? Does anyone worry about having their pictures accessible like this? Anyone worried about effects on future employment etc?

I'm not stealth but neither am I 'out' in the sense I don't talk about my past outside of with other TSes and those that knew me 'before', and I would never post a picture in a public forum (even if I was good looking - which I'm not) ... and in the past when I posted too much personal info in the open it came back to bite me.

In general some who have posted here look very good... but some have significant issues beyond needing more electrolysis or better makeup ... the type of issues that only full FFS would solve if they want to pass really well (I had full FFS with Dr O a long time ago so I know what it can do).

I would be very hesitant to say that to anyone because i know it can hurt and that some will not be able to afford it ... do others feel the same way about giving feedback?

- karen

I'm not out to anybody except my girlfriend and if anybody else found the pictures I put on here I'd be absolutely mortified. Because of this it took me such a long time to actually post a picture of myself on here.

Then I realised unless anybody searched for "Hannah Samira" they can't find me. And since that's not my name yet there's no reason for anybody I know to google it. Plus, if someone I know is googling for Transwomen in the first place, I think they might actually be in a similar situation to me ;)

As for telling people how they look on here, I would say just don't say anything you wouldn't want to hear said about yourself, but we're here to help each other, not delude each other :)

That's just my opinion anyway :P x
Twitter: @HannahSamira14
Instagram: @hannah_samira14

:angel:
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stephaniec

Quote from: Willowicious on June 17, 2016, 01:02:15 PM
Gets girls! Please could I have your input? :) Here's me sans-makeup (I.e. do you think I male fail?):



Here's me en femme:





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
you look fine , you'll just keep getting better.This is where your age really comes in handy
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KatelynBG

Hi, I haven't been here in awhile, but here's a pic of me 3 weeks ago at 7 weeks HRT. How am I doing?



Here's me from Thursday night, 10 weeks HRT

]
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stephaniec

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Willowicious

@alex82 @stephaniec Thanks for your feedback and support! I'll deffo work on my makeup game :D


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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