Dr. Michael C. Haben's triple VFS procedure

[jollyjoy]

Hey Jollyjoy,

I did actually, but it's subsided a lot since then! There're three possible reasons I can think of:

1) It was caused by the swelling, which has gone done since

2) I had to use my vocal muscles differently, and I've now gotten used to my new voice.

3) Pre-op I could only reach much of my present range by going into falsetto. Due to bone conduction of my voice, my brain thinks it's falsetto because of the pitch, even though it might not be.

I've asked a number of friends if my voice goes into a falsetto, and they've assured me that it doesn't, and that it actually sounds good, hoarseness and breathiness aside.

As for my recovery, I've always had a high metabolism with no health problems, so I generally heal a little faster than average. I don't smoke either, and I only drink on occasion in social settings, which probably doesn't hurt.

I've used the recovery period as an excuse to have more meat in my diet, and I've also been sleeping as much as possible.

Thanks for the detailed explanation! Glad to know it'll go away with time!!

[jollyjoy]

For what it's worth, I also noticed my muscle contracting into a falsetto type voice when attempting to speak about a week and a half after surgery. I wouldn't call it falsetto so much as a screeching cracking disaster. Lol Eventually, I re-learned to push my larynx down until it healed some more. Now I hold my larynx and hyoid together to achieve a voice that I can comfortably hold, and that I like.

Glad to hear this is normal during recovery, and your voice sounds very nice!

[kwala]

Sounding great, runaway! Thanks for the update.

[runaway]

Thanks for the compliments, kwala, Jollyjoy and Cadence.

I'm not sure if this is a one-time fluke, but I just measured my range, and it's now 160hz to 450hz (previously 180hz to 345hz), though it is very breathy and unsustainable at the high end. More of a whisper almost, but still!  My voice is also becoming less breathy at the lower ranges (180hz to 250hz), and I can sustain it longer every day.

FWIW two cis friends I asked, could go lower than me, but of course they sound like girls putting on a low voice. As do I! 

[Roni]

Oh my god you sound SO GREAT!!!!!

[iKate]

You sound pretty good!

[runaway]

Thanks Roni, & iKate! So far the outcome has exceeded my expectations by far. All I wanted was a passable voice, even if it was androgynous and my range was limited.

So far my non-falsetto range has almost doubled, and when my nose isn't blocked and I'm not unconsciously lowering my pitch, I've been told that my voice sounds good, and very feminine.

About the mental block, that's proving to be the most difficult and irritating aspect of training my new voice. My voice has healed up to the point that using a lower pitch is actually very tiring, but I keep doing it if I'm not constantly reminding myself not to.

A few days ago, I phoned a friend and she said I sounded 100% natural and feminine, but as soon as I went up to her place and started talking to people in person, my pitch went back down. Dealing with the mental block will take time after putting on a dude voice for so long, but I'll just keep chipping away at it.

Next Wednesday will mark the 1-month mark, and I'll be posting another recording and also pre and post-op photos of my vocal folds and incision scar.

A small note about Dr. Haben: I think the warnings about the need for vocal training, the not-so-impressive recordings posted on his website, and the extensive description of the VFS procedure(s), are just him managing his patients' expectations. Setting them too high only leads to disappointment, and could be devastating for transgender patients who already have to deal with a lot.

[audreelyn]

Omg, I'm so happy for you! Congrats runaway, you sound great (:

This definitely means the CTA is worth it. You should do a recording again soon, can't wait to hear more progress!

Roni, you're going in this month right from SD?

[runaway]

Thanks Audreelyn! I'm quite busy this week, but I'll definitely post something by the end of this week.

I hope you don't mind that I snooped on you a little, and your introduction really resonated with me. The military service, motorcycles, the impenetrable macho cover persona, and unfortunately the deep voice. You look very pretty in your avatar photo, so passing shouldn't be a problem at all for you once you take care of the voice.

I can say for sure, that the CTA hasn't reduced my range from my pre-op non-falsetto range. Perhaps it's not as wide as it might have been, but if it means cutting out the lower frequencies, then it's definitely worth it. My adam's apple was very small, but I was happy to have that taken care of all at once.

[audreelyn]

Thanks Audreelyn! I'm quite busy this week, but I'll definitely post something by the end of this week.

I hope you don't mind that I snooped on you a little, and your introduction really resonated with me. The military service, motorcycles, the impenetrable macho cover persona, and unfortunately the deep voice. You look very pretty in your avatar photo, so passing shouldn't be a problem at all for you once you take care of the voice.

!
Well thank you!
I also don't mind about you looking at my story, in fact, I'm glad you did. I put it out there for everyone to read. Really, it makes me happy that it resonated with you. I think that we all have stories that resound with each other and we need all the help and support we can get.

I think I will definitely go full-time once I get the surgery done--so your words mean a lot to me. Granted, I did take this avatar with Selfie/Angles to get the best shot... and it definitely wasn't the first take either...haha!!

So what's next on your timeline after you heal up???

[runaway]

!
Well thank you!
I also don't mind about you looking at my story, in fact, I'm glad you did. I put it out there for everyone to read. Really, it makes me happy that it resonated with you. I think that we all have stories that resound with each other and we need all the help and support we can get.

I think I will definitely go full-time once I get the surgery done--so your words mean a lot to me. Granted, I did take this avatar with Selfie/Angles to get the best shot... and it definitely wasn't the first take either...haha!!

So what's next on your timeline after you heal up???

Just SRS with Dr. Brassard, for which I'll be going for my consult/approval session this weekend!

I transitioned very gradually over the course of about two years, and in my experience voice is the most important gender marker by far. As long as you have your facial hair taken care of, HRT will only help by making a whole bunch of subtle changes to your skin, muscle and fat distribution that add up, eventually resulting in male fail.

I think you've been on HRT for a few months at most? If so, the next year or so should be very exciting for you, since you've already made up your mind to go full-time after VFS. I kinda bumbled along being insecure due to internalized anxieties about passing, but the 6-9 month mark was when I was being consistently read as female, as long as I kept my mouth shut, which led to my decision to undergo VFS.

What did you ride, if you don't mind me asking? Do you still ride? I hope the arm has healed up well at this point.

[audreelyn]

Just SRS with Dr. Brassard, for which I'll be going for my consult/approval session this weekend!

I transitioned very gradually over the course of about two years, and in my experience voice is the most important gender marker by far. As long as you have your facial hair taken care of, HRT will only help by making a whole bunch of subtle changes to your skin, muscle and fat distribution that add up, eventually resulting in male fail.

I think you've been on HRT for a few months at most? If so, the next year or so should be very exciting for you, since you've already made up your mind to go full-time after VFS. I kinda bumbled along being insecure due to internalized anxieties about passing, but the 6-9 month mark was when I was being consistently read as female, as long as I kept my mouth shut, which led to my decision to undergo VFS.

What did you ride, if you don't mind me asking? Do you still ride? I hope the arm has healed up well at this point.

OMG! SRS!! That's going to be it then

Yes, I'm having my fourth installment of laser so that'll be exciting. My facial hair nearly gone anyhow. Ultimately, I really hate not being able to talk, since I'm so talkative. I don't mind going to LGBT events and talking my head off, since people there are usually very cool. But in public... it's not the easiest to pull off. But hey! Sounds like you're doing pretty well!

Are you full time at work?

I rode a Harley Sportster 2011. My arm is pretty much at 80 percent. Just missing some grip strength and flexibility, but that'll come with time. Already dismissed from my occupational therapist, so yeah, thank you for the well wishes! Sounds like you are a rider yourself?

[runaway]

Hey everyone, sorry for the hiatus; I've been crazy busy, and my voice became hoarse and weak again because I overused it last week.

IMPORTANT WARNING
Another transgirl I met at Dr. Haben's clinic, has had her sutures break at about the 4-week mark while she was talking on the phone, so her old voice is back. She said she was talking normally, and then she felt pain, then her old voice came back.

DON'T OVERUSE YOUR VOICE UNTIL IT'S FULLY HEALED!!!

I'm now extremely paranoid, and I'll be giving myself another week of self-imposed voice rest before I post more recordings, since I've been overusing my voice too.

[runaway]

OMG! SRS!! That's going to be it then

Yes, I'm having my fourth installment of laser so that'll be exciting. My facial hair nearly gone anyhow. Ultimately, I really hate not being able to talk, since I'm so talkative. I don't mind going to LGBT events and talking my head off, since people there are usually very cool. But in public... it's not the easiest to pull off. But hey! Sounds like you're doing pretty well!

Are you full time at work?

I rode a Harley Sportster 2011. My arm is pretty much at 80 percent. Just missing some grip strength and flexibility, but that'll come with time. Already dismissed from my occupational therapist, so yeah, thank you for the well wishes! Sounds like you are a rider yourself?

I just had my second (and last) SRS consult, so now I just have to wait for my surgery date with Dr. Brassard!

I'm still in school, and I went full time right after returning from VFS, so thankfully I didn't have to deal with the additional drama that I imagine coming out at work would involve. Has it gone well for you?

Anyway it sounds like your arm is healing up fine! I started out on a 200cc Yamaha, and I now ride a Yamaha XV750, which is sort of similar to the Sportster. Do you intend to start riding again once you've healed up? I've crashed several times, but I haven't broken anything yet ***knockonwood***.

Regarding my voice, the comfortable pitch hasn't changed much (215-225hz), but I don't have to push it as low as I did before, to avoid agitating it. Stamina has improved, and breathiness has gone done, but it's definitely not 100% yet.

Gonna take it easy for the next week or four, but I'll post a recording again once I recover from last week's voice abuse.

[Roni]

Hey everyone, sorry for the hiatus; I've been crazy busy, and my voice became hoarse and weak again because I overused it last week.

IMPORTANT WARNING
Another transgirl I met at Dr. Haben's clinic, has had her sutures break at about the 4-week mark while she was talking on the phone, so her old voice is back. She said she was talking normally, and then she felt pain, then her old voice came back.

DON'T OVERUSE YOUR VOICE UNTIL IT'S FULLY HEALED!!!

I'm now extremely paranoid, and I'll be giving myself another week of self-imposed voice rest before I post more recordings, since I've been overusing my voice too.

Jeez, WHILE she was talking normally? And now my anxiety/paranoia regarding my sutures have returned.. all while I am still suffering from a semi-congested chest and coughing at least 10 times a day. And I'm only 5 days into recovery. First Elaine S had bits of her suture come out and now another similar incident. Both girls have gone to Dr. Haben. I've already had two bad dreams in a row where my sutures have ripped.

I was planning on doing at least two weeks of strict voice rest. Do you girls reckon I should increase my period of rest? Two weeks was about the most I was willing to go, with halloween parties lined up and me looking to get back to work where I talk non-stop for 6+ hours. But now I can't help but be concerned about over-using my voice.

How the heck do her sutures come apart during normal conversation? Do you know anything about her recovery period and if she followed post-op care instructions to the T? I'm thinking her sutures disintegrated over time with misuse rather than from the actual phone conversation itself?

[Dena]

Dr Haben has had a pretty good record with the sutures staying in place but the real trick is for your body to heal with the two cords together. For some reason it appears that people are having the cords not bind as one. The sutures seem to dissolved about week 5 which is plenty of time for healing if the cords bound together but I ask Dr Haben when coughing and sneezing would be OK. He said your voice would get very bad and then become very good and at that point the voice would be healed. I suspect that point is sometime after the 6 week mark. Also avoid any loud usage of the voice. You will have problems talking at normal levels and that means the voice isn't healed. Don't force it. Full healing can take between 3 and 6 months and I think I am going to be closer to 6 months. Luck for me I can function with a limited voice while that happens.

[jollyjoy]

I actually had my surgery on the same day as her. I just saw her email. I hope everything will turn out fine for her at the end.

I'm very grateful that she has shared this with us. Right now, I'm at almost 4 weeks, I think I will try to have 2 more weeks of complete vocal rest to ensure the voice heals properly.

[iKate]

Jeez, WHILE she was talking normally? And now my anxiety/paranoia regarding my sutures have returned.. all while I am still suffering from a semi-congested chest and coughing at least 10 times a day. And I'm only 5 days into recovery. First Elaine S had bits of her suture come out and now another similar incident. Both girls have gone to Dr. Haben. I've already had two bad dreams in a row where my sutures have ripped.

I was planning on doing at least two weeks of strict voice rest. Do you girls reckon I should increase my period of rest? Two weeks was about the most I was willing to go, with halloween parties lined up and me looking to get back to work where I talk non-stop for 6+ hours. But now I can't help but be concerned about over-using my voice.

How the heck do her sutures come apart during normal conversation? Do you know anything about her recovery period and if she followed post-op care instructions to the T? I'm thinking her sutures disintegrated over time with misuse rather than from the actual phone conversation itself?

I did a whole month and Dr Kim recommends a full month minimum. Not sure why Dr Haben is different. Either he is not conservative enough or Dr Kim is too conservative.

[Roni]

I did a whole month and Dr Kim recommends a full month minimum. Not sure why Dr Haben is different. Either he is not conservative enough or Dr Kim is too conservative.

Yeah, it seems it is mainly Haben girls who are having trouble with their sutures, probably because Dr. Haben is not conservative enough with the voice rest requirements. I'll probably do a month of rest like those who have gone to Yeson.

[runaway]

Yes, I think a full month of voice rest would be a good idea. I think Dr. Haben may be not conservative enough to account for patients who heal slower, or overuse their voices too soon. My voice-use was definitely more than "moderate" the last week.

Both me and the girl I mentioned, were intending to do that but got tired of being mute after one week. I had my post-op check up a full week after my operation, and the web between my vocal folds had already formed, so I should be fine, I hope...

Nevertheless, I will give it another 1-2 weeks. No change in pitch, but there's been an increase in phlegm again, so I think that's a sign I really agitated my folds last week, though the discomfort I felt due to the overuse has gone away mostly.

To those who've just had the operation, I found that pushing my voice as low as possible and speaking softly really helped avoid agitating my folds.

Low pitch + low volume = folds vibrate slower and softer.
High pitch + high volume = folds vibrate faster and harder.