How would you prefer other trans people approach you about trans stuff IRL

[Obfuskatie]

I'm generally okay to talk about stuff.  That said... I've made some mistakes in thinking that I've clocked transgender people.  Whether a person is actually cisgender or transgender, being read as transgender can be horribly devastating.  I'm more offended by this reaction of devastation than anything, to be honest; I perceive it to be awfully transphobic.

So, like Ms Grace said, I might mention that I'm trans if I can find a relevant reason to work it into the conversation.  But only say it once!  They'll get the message if they're trans, and if not, they probably won't think anything of it.

Followed by:
"Wink wink, knudge knudge, say no more, say no more!"
But seriously, yeah I get that everyone has their own comfort zones, but I hate the inherent transphobia a lot of us are somewhat encouraged to embrace for fear that dreaded Cis people are watching. I'd rather be out and proud and risk insulting or bothering people than meekly being silent and out of sight.
I'm not exactly sure why, but part of this whole dilemma really bothers me. We should be able to roll our eyes at Cis people together for their ignorance. I'm so fraking tired of hiding.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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[Obfuskatie]

I very much agree with what Grace said.  Outing yourself, if it is private enough, is the way to go and has worked well for me.  If the other person does not say they are, I just drop it.

It's a good rule of thumb, I agree. Maybe I'm overthinking everything a little... I just wish I didn't have to be so furtive about it. It's like being furtive means I accept something intricate to who I am is shameful, when I don't think like that anymore for my own sanity's sake.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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[Tysilio]

No one's saying you need to be "furtive;" this is about being aware that other people's boundaries may not be the same as yours, which is a very different thing. The approach Grace suggested is the opposite of furtive, in fact: you'd be putting yourself out there first, while not putting the other person on the spot.

If you're in San Francisco, you should have no problem meeting other trans folk socially -- there are any number of venues and organizations, support groups, and so on in the Bay area.   

[Call me Ray]

True he might not be trans, and I could just have been mistaken, I thought of that. But what if he thought the exact same things as me, but out of courtesy said nothing? I'd never actually bombard someone about being trans and stuff. I guess I'm just frustrated that we're always so afraid of upsetting each other that we are content being invisible.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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I don't think it's because of being afraid of upsetting people, it's called common decency and respect. In my opinion it would be no different than a cis person I don't know asking about my genitals while at work.

Do I know you? No.
Am I working? Yes.
Is it the time or place for a complete stranger to essentially be telling me they know what is, or used to be, in my pants? No.
Is it any of your business? Absolutely not unless I choose to mention it.

If you must try to start a conversion about it, don't have it be because "I know what you are", that's just plain rude no matter how excited you are to see someone you think may be trans.

[Aazhie]

I could only do what Ms Grace suggested. It's unkind to disrupt someone's day with that- what if he's very troubled by being noticed like that? Since you were alone in the shop, you can easily drop the, Hey, I'm trans and be relaly positive and happy about it and let him do what he will in reaction. 

Some people can't help but need to constantly stealth.  They might only identify as trans until they feel they pass well enough and then stop associating with the community.  This makes me feel sad, because I feel keeping in touch with other trans and queer folk is a lifeline for me, but for some it might feel like the anchor dragging them deeper underwater. I wish things could be more casual, as you do, but tragically it will be a big deal for a long time, hopefully someday generations later, people can have no worries as to being trans.  That being said, in SF I bet there are loads of places and trans people to hang with

[Lukazc93]

Katie, I'm a transguy who recently moved to San Francisco and totally looking to find more of a community around here. I'm stealth at work / daily life, but definitely miss having people that know or understand my past. Send me a PM, maybe we can hang out sometime!

And yeah, you would think it would be easy to find a trans community here - and there are certainly more gender non-conforming people in this city - but the same issues come up as in any other place. Besides support groups (and perhaps the LGBT neighborhoods of SF but even they tend to be more filled with cis gay men) there aren't many places for trans-folk to meet or gather...


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[Kylo]

I don't know, being trans shouldn't be the same as being in AA. It just makes me sad to think that I can never approach IRL another person who is trans like myself for fear of disrupting their anonymity. Contextually, yes he was at work, but by himself, we were alone together in the shop. I would never out someone to other people, that's just not cool. This is why I partly seriously think we need a secret handshake...


     Hugs,
- Katie
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Well, first time I joined a trans forum a couple of years ago one of the first things I saw on the boards was an argument between two trans people, and one of them said just because they're trans, doesn't mean they have to be another trans person's friend, doesn't mean they have to empathize or sympathize with anybody else just because they have the same condition (i.e. the person they were arguing with). They are still around in that place, still of the same mind and quite aggressive about the subject.

The fact that was one of the first things I encountered in the community has kept me wary of assuming another trans person will automatically be friendly, or that it's not just an anonymity issue - some people just don't want to be bothered by anybody about their transness.

That said there is a spectrum of people out there - some will be happy to speak about it. Like with all people though, getting to speak about things is an organic process and needs to happen naturally not to be seen or felt as weird. I think in the right setting it is not weird. Just as someone coming up to me at a con and talking about my art would not be weird, in the right setting talking about trans wouldn't be. But if someone showed an inordinate interest in the wrong kind of situation, I might be suspicious or put off by it. I guess you just gotta gauge the situation carefully.

[cathyrains]

How would you prefer other trans people approach you about trans stuff IRL

It is no more or less appropriate than a cisgender person approaching me about "trans stuff". Context is everything. At someone's place of work? Absolutely not.  At a transgender support meeting? Fine.

[wheat thins are delicious]

But part of me feels like I missed out on making a new friend with so many things in common with me.

But do you have "so many things" in common.  You are both trans, that's just one thing.  Your personalities might not even mesh.  I have very little trans friends because just being trans isn't something to hold us together.  The only trans friends I have are people who I met because we were trans and we had things in common outside of sharing a medical condition. 

I personally wouldn't like it at all if someone started prying into my status in anyway. I probably wouldn't say anything about me being a trans even if the other party did. It's part of my medical history which means it's not other people's business and not meant to be aired out in the public. Someone suspects I'm trans? Cool, good for you. Now keep it to yourself.

That... did come off somewhat aggressive which really wasn't my intention. I just feel strongly about my privacy regarding this subject. I don't identify as a trans man, I'm a man with medical history which happens to include transsexualism diagnosis.

I agree with you. 

I would never approach someone who I ASSUMED (because let's face it, you are assuming, and assumptions aren't always correct, even if you believe you have some special knowledge because you yourself are trans) was trans and out myself.  And if someone did that to me I would be livid. 

[Obfuskatie]

But do you have "so many things" in common.  You are both trans, that's just one thing.  Your personalities might not even mesh.  I have very little trans friends because just being trans isn't something to hold us together.  The only trans friends I have are people who I met because we were trans and we had things in common outside of sharing a medical condition. 


I agree with you. 

I would never approach someone who I ASSUMED (because let's face it, you are assuming, and assumptions aren't always correct, even if you believe you have some special knowledge because you yourself are trans) was trans and out myself.  And if someone did that to me I would be livid.

I hear you, and understand your sentiment, as it is a popular one that I used to share. However the question isn't yes or no, nor was I asking why I should shut up and go away. I'd especially prefer for someone antagonistic to being approached would say how they prefer to be approached if it were to happen. Because it will happen. Whether it's by another trans person, someone nice, someone meaning well, or someone possessing all or a few or none of those qualities.
I know I would prefer that it were another trans person who would approach it delicately in a private setting. But I'll settle for someone not yelling at me or calling me pejoratives based on ignorance and a few phobias. I will always bristle depending on how it's brought up to me, so I think that the best way to approach a safe way of broaching a subject that will be broached anyway is to find the safest method for us to connect with each other.
Again, "Just don't," isn't an acceptable answer to my question. Limiting our self-acceptance to behind computer screens and support groups seems short-sighted and sad to me. Being trans is just a thing that is, not a defect. I'm sick of buying into the thought that I'm somehow flawed or handicapped. Frak that BS.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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[wheat thins are delicious]

I hear you, and understand your sentiment, as it is a popular one that I used to share. However the question isn't yes or no, nor was I asking why I should shut up and go away. I'd especially prefer for someone antagonistic to being approached would say how they prefer to be approached if it were to happen. Because it will happen. Whether it's by another trans person, someone nice, someone meaning well, or someone possessing all or a few or none of those qualities.
I know I would prefer that it were another trans person who would approach it delicately in a private setting. But I'll settle for someone not yelling at me or calling me pejoratives based on ignorance and a few phobias. I will always bristle depending on how it's brought up to me, so I think that the best way to approach a safe way of broaching a subject that will be broached anyway is to find the safest method for us to connect with each other.
Again, "Just don't," isn't an acceptable answer to my question. Limiting our self-acceptance to behind computer screens and support groups seems short-sighted and sad to me. Being trans is just a thing that is, not a defect. I'm sick of buying into the thought that I'm somehow flawed or handicapped. Frak that BS.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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To be honest, it doesn't matter how someone were to approach someone who doesn't want to be approached, no matter how nice, or gently, or whatever they do it, the other person will always feel violated.  Just don't is a total valid answer.  It's none of your business if that person is or is not trans, and your desire to make more trans friends does not get a say in that situation.  The guy is at work, you don't know for sure he's trans, and he's not bringing it up.  Those are all signs that you should just keep your mouth shut.  It would be a different situation if you were at some kind of queer event or trans specific event/club.  If I personally were approached, again, no matter how the other person approached me, I would deny being trans.  To me being trans is a defect.  It's not a part of my life I want to talk about with others, except for some places online.  I treat my transsexualism like I would treat any of my other medical issues, and that is that they are my business and my business only. 

[Obfuskatie]

To be honest, it doesn't matter how someone were to approach someone who doesn't want to be approached, no matter how nice, or gently, or whatever they do it, the other person will always feel violated.  Just don't is a total valid answer.  It's none of your business if that person is or is not trans, and your desire to make more trans friends does not get a say in that situation.  The guy is at work, you don't know for sure he's trans, and he's not bringing it up.  Those are all signs that you should just keep your mouth shut.  It would be a different situation if you were at some kind of queer event or trans specific event/club.  If I personally were approached, again, no matter how the other person approached me, I would deny being trans.  To me being trans is a defect.  It's not a part of my life I want to talk about with others, except for some places online.  I treat my transsexualism like I would treat any of my other medical issues, and that is that they are my business and my business only.

I'm sorry you feel that way, truly I am.
In that safe context you mentioned (at a queer event, let's say Camp Trans a year ago): how would you prefer to be approached?
I'm not saying I'm going to get in your business or anyone's business. I'm not saying it's my right or anyone's right. I'm not saying that you have to think in a particular way. I'm asking a question, which may be pertinent in case someone wants to respect and pay attentions to your feelings.
I refuse to keep my head down and ignore anyone who might want a friend or need someone to talk to. I refuse to always look the other way because it's convenient and easier than risking annoying someone who might need or want companionship or help. I refuse to believe that all trans events require people to leave separately and never associate outside of them. I refuse to hate something I can never change about myself; because if I can't stop hating that, how could a Cis person?

     Hugs,
- Katie
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[iKate]

I would be kind of offended if another Trans woman clocked me. But I would still talk to her.

"Hey I noticed you're Trans, I'm Trans too"

Yeah that would not make me feel good.

[wheat thins are delicious]

I'm sorry you feel that way, truly I am.
In that safe context you mentioned (at a queer event, let's say Camp Trans a year ago): how would you prefer to be approached?
I'm not saying I'm going to get in your business or anyone's business. I'm not saying it's my right or anyone's right. I'm not saying that you have to think in a particular way. I'm asking a question, which may be pertinent in case someone wants to respect and pay attentions to your feelings.
I refuse to keep my head down and ignore anyone who might want a friend or need someone to talk to. I refuse to always look the other way because it's convenient and easier than risking annoying someone who might need or want companionship or help. I refuse to believe that all trans events require people to leave separately and never associate outside of them. I refuse to hate something I can never change about myself; because if I can't stop hating that, how could a Cis person?

     Hugs,
- Katie
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If you must, the only correct way to interact with another person who has not stated they are trans in any way (verbally or by wearing clothing stating they are trans) is to bring up your own trans-ness, and not mention that you assume they might be trans. 

[Devlyn]

I'm going to be blunt and honest. Asking someone if they're transgender isn't something the rest of the world knows is "off limits." I had someone at Lowes ask me the other day "Are you transing?" (Their word, not mine!  ) I said "I sure am, Charlie." He told me I had a lot of courage and wished me well. To me, as long as someone is respectful, they can ask me anything. Anything at all.

Hugs, Devlyn

[Obfuskatie]

I'm going to be blunt and honest. Asking someone if they're transgender isn't something the rest of the world knows is "off limits." I had someone at Lowes ask me the other day "Are you transing?" (Their word, not mine!  ) I said "I sure am, Charlie." He told me I had a lot of courage and wished me well. To me, as long as someone is respectful, they can ask me anything. Anything at all.

Hugs, Devlyn

I had a cabbie ask me about it when I went to the conference in SLO, CA. Apparently he had heard of the conference and remembered it from last year. Here's essentially how it went:
"Hi I need a ride downtown, I didn't realize it was such a long walk from my hotel to Cal Poly."
"Are you just visiting?"
"No, there's this conference I heard about on Twitter..."
"Oh... You're trans?"(not exactly what he said but not everyone knows the lingo).
"Um, yeah. Anyway, the Gender Conference thing sounded really cool, and had a lot of interesting panels."
"Like?"
...etc.
I didn't really have an issue opening up to the cabbie, but I wasn't initially planning on outing myself. Sometimes people know more than we realize, but I don't particularly want to police my openness any more than I have for most of my life. I think he would have been a lot less friendly had I vehemently denied being trans and kept sullen and quiet after.
Sometimes people need to be lead by your example for how you treat your being trans. If you fully accept yourself, someone else who doesn't accept you is just an -jerk.
A guy I recently dated, with whom I had a lot of fun and had tentatively arranged to go out with a second time, recently called me to essentially let me down easily. He retroactively decided that he couldn't get past my being trans, despite feeling badly about it. I had to goad him into being fully forthcoming by asking him to postpone consideration of my feelings, I wanted to know his. I essentially responded by saying:
"I appreciate your honesty. I'm glad you're telling me this now, before I become any more invested in a relationship. I'm disappointed and there's nothing I can do about being trans which is why I was very upfront about it. I hope you find who you're looking for..."
Yes I was upset, but not particularly surprised. I'm more frustrated and annoyed than sad about it. And pretty much immediately I started talking to a different guy who wasn't a jerk. Soooooo, essentially the jerk made it easier for me to not have to deal with him while apologizing to me instead of the other way around.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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[chance]

I'm with you obfuskatie.  We need a secret handshake, button, tattoo so that we can recognize each other.  And a secret clue phrase that asks if the person is willing to talk.  I would NEVER say anything to anyone in public.  But I also like the idea of saying that I am ftm "so I might have trouble finding a size that fits (or something).

I'd like to be able to find others to talk to and even hang out with.  I mean not even my wife understands as much as she tries.  Would be nice to have some trans dudes to hang out with.


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[Obfuskatie]

I'm with you obfuskatie.  We need a secret handshake, button, tattoo so that we can recognize each other.  And a secret clue phrase that asks if the person is willing to talk.  I would NEVER say anything to anyone in public.  But I also like the idea of saying that I am ftm "so I might have trouble finding a size that fits (or something).

I'd like to be able to find others to talk to and even hang out with.  I mean not even my wife understands as much as she tries.  Would be nice to have some trans dudes to hang out with.


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Yay! It makes me happy that there's a few people open to the idea. I think a secret handshake would be hilarious, but we'd need it to be unique and imperceptible by the casual observer. I plan on getting a discreet tattoo in February, but hesitate to do something like a purple butterfly in a visible part of my body. Gay people used to have the pierced ear thing, we happy trans need something similar IMO.
I totally understand, and wish there was a safe meeting pace or something for us to just relax. Not a support group, because it can get too heavy there.


     Hugs,
- Katie
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[chance]

Yeah. Agree about the support group setting. I like the idea of a purple butterfly even though I don't like butterflies *lol*   I mean as tattoos for myself :-D


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[Obfuskatie]

Yeah. Agree about the support group setting. I like the idea of a purple butterfly even though I don't like butterflies *lol*   I mean as tattoos for myself :-D
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Same here. I was thinking along the lines of a tattoo that wasn't a scarlet T, but the purple butterfly is kind of an obvious reference to metamorphosis. But hey, would Cis people really understand a scarlet T? Barely anyone reads Nathaniel Hawthorne anymore...


     Hugs,
- Katie
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