Crisis/Challenges of Faith

[Jaynatopia]

I am just curious if those who identify Christian (or did in the past, as I did) have had their faith challenged by simply being transgendered: by the reactions of those who claim that faith, or if finding acceptance as transgender has affected your spiritual life in some way.

How did you struggle through such a conflict (perceived or real) and how has that changed or affected you?

[Sarah Louise]

I for one did not have a crisis/conflict of faith.  My faith is in God, not the Church.  While the local Church may not always accept me, I am confident that God does.

Sarah L.

[carol_w]

Jayna,
This is a very interesting thread, and one that's EXTREMELY relevant to those of us here who are Christians.

My struggle has been made 100 times worse because of being Christian.

First of all, my wife, who is also a Christian (and a far more devout one than me), is totally non-accepting of anything having to do with TS.  I brought up one time about possibly being transgendered, and I thought I set off an atomic bomb.  I feel that if she were not a Christian, then I could have brought up more scientific facts and evidence and MAYBE there could have been some acceptance.  As it is, all of my exploration has to be done in secret. I feel that I'm deceiving her in doing that, which adds immensely to the stress of "figuring this out".

Now as for me, being Christian has complicated things immensely.  I keep questioning if I'm just some kind of weirdo.  I have found myself in the past just praying to Him to "take it away" or "heal me".  It's set up a mini-war within because part of me says "TS is of the world, and I shouldn't believe in it.", while the other says "This isn't anything more complicated than another birth defect.  You've just lived with it so long that you can't remember when you didn't squash the girl inside."

All of this adds up to:
1) I find myself doubting my faith, in part because of having to figure out "the condition".
2) I suffer guilt because of having to "hide" it from my spouse.

I think "How can I claim to be so Christian when I'm having to sneak around to try to figure things out?"  That, and "Do I not have enough faith to overcome the 'temptation' of feeling/dressing like a woman?"

The struggle that I have within myself has taken its toll in decreased self-worth and self-acceptance.
It continues even now, as I'm kind of shaking just thinking about it.

Carol

[Jaynatopia]

Hi Carol, wow, I found your personal story very moving and can see how dealing with the issues of not only being transgendered and Christian might affect you but how it is perceived by those close to you. It seems very often too that wanting to be ourselves is somehow seen as selfish and we should sacrifice it for the sake of others.
Have you by chance checked out whosoever.org? There is an interesting section on being Christian and transgendered there.

http://www.whosoever.org/v2Issue2/index.html

I often too had wished at some point that I would just get cured somehow and at times I got really good at just repressing that side of me.... for a time. Finally deciding to OWN that part of my identity was very liberating. I hope you can find a way to be you and enjoy your faith. I can see how your own intellect and the desire to not have that conflict can war with one another. Thanks so much for sharing that.

My struggle has been made 100 times worse because of being Christian.

First of all, my wife, who is also a Christian (and a far more devout one than me), is totally non-accepting of anything having to do with TS.  I brought up one time about possibly being transgendered, and I thought I set off an atomic bomb.  I feel that if she was not a Christian, then I could have brought up more scientific facts and evidence, and MAYBE there could have been some acceptance.  As it is, all of my exploration has to be done in secret from her. I feel that I'm deceiving her in doing that, which adds immensely to the stress of "figuring this out".

Now as for me, being Christian has complicated things immensely.  I keep questioning if I'm just some kind of weirdo.  I have found myself in the past just praying to Him to "take it away" or "heal me".  It's set up a mini-war within me because part of me says "TS is of the world, and I shouldn't believe in it.", while the other part says "This isn't anything more complicated than another birth defect.  You've just lived with it so long that you can't remember when you didn't squash the girl inside."

[ErickaM]

As a Christian my faith is still strong, but I no longer attend a local church and that is mainly because of the hypocrisy that I see in the evangelical church.  My pastor and I was in Southern Cal for a conference and I had said something about transgender people to him and the response was less than what I had hoped for. In fact it was quit negative, where was the love of Christ? And that is when I really began to really see how much hypocrisy was in our church, that is why I have been thinking on looking for a GLBT church but I don't know how my wife would like it.

[carol_w]

Jayna,
Thanks so much for your comments.  Yes, it's been hard, and I think that's why that up until just very recently I didn't see Carol when I looked into a mirror (while dressed as her).  Now I can see her, and I can also see her in my actions.  Perhaps I'm finally starting to accept Carol as part of myself. 

I'm putting a blog up in the next few days here on the site.  If you'd like, feel free to pop over and read it. 

And, oh yes, I HAVE read many of the articles on whosoever.org.  They're tremendous.  Hopefully, at some point, after I've come to some conclusions (post-"war"), I'll be able to appreciate them more.

Thank you for opening this thread and letting me share.  *HUGS*

Carol

[genopunk]

Jayna,
This is a very interesting thread, and one that's EXTREMELY relevant to those of us here who are Christians.

My struggle has been made 100 times worse because of being Christian.

First of all, my wife, who is also a Christian (and a far more devout one than me), is totally non-accepting of anything having to do with TS.  I brought up one time about possibly being transgendered, and I thought I set off an atomic bomb.  I feel that if she was not a Christian, then I could have brought up more scientific facts and evidence, and MAYBE there could have been some acceptance.  As it is, all of my exploration has to be done in secret from her. I feel that I'm deceiving her in doing that, which adds immensely to the stress of "figuring this out".

Carol,

I understand the kind of resistance you are facing.  I recently went back to GA to visit with my parents for the first time since my transition.  While they are tolerant and somewhat okay with it, my brother was a different story. He is a conservative Christian, and has some very strong ideas about how things should be interpreted.

We met up with him on the last day of my trip, and visited with him for a while.  He seemed cordial at first, and talked about normal things like his new house and his job, and such.  I felt comfortable enough to ask him to come out to coffee so we could discuss thing without anyone else.

At coffee he basically berated me in every way possible.  He said that I could not be a Christian if I was transgender, and that I was never going to be able to come to his house again, or see his future children.  He accused me of leaving him with the burden of explaining to his family how I was sinful and immoral.  He refused to call me she, or use my legal name. (he relented on the legal name when I confronted him about it, and said that the court had changed it... at least I got that much out of him, especialy since we were in a public place, while he was calling me "Bro" and Sir!)He said that I would always be a man no matter what I did, and then yelled at me for being in a lesbian relationship. 

I even told him that the church we have our support groups at has a transgender pastor.... does that mater? no. He won't accept any church that embraces transgender, or homosexual ideas as a real church.

At this point I began to feel that there was no point in talking to him about it any further, because he was starting to contradict himself, but I guess that when you are blinded by an idea you can't see past it.

I have spoken to the rest of my family about this (all of whom are either Christian or Catholic), and they have said that I shouldn't listen to him.  My mom even said "what? did god come down and tell him personaly what is right and wrong?  Unless he suddenly became god, I don't think he can tell you how god feels."

Doesn't the bible teach to "love one another" ? 

Doesn't the bible teach that you should reach out to those in pain an help them?

How does accusing me of burdening him with this "secret" make me want to listen to him?

Even if I do listen to him, how can I accept his idea of a god who rejects the people that he made?  How can one believe that any god would burden so many of his people with something that is so strong, and then reject them for improving their lives?  (I for one am so much happier and a more functional human being than I ever was as a guy.)

I feel that if conservative Christians were more accepting, that there would be more TS men and women who stayed with the church.  Instead people like you and me, are put in the position of making an almost impossible choice, or loosing all those in our lives who reject us because of something that isn't even talked about in the bible (they talk of eunuch, positively I might add, but this is a different subject historically, and the one cross-dressing passage really doesn't apply to transgender)

I really do understand what you are going through, and I hope that I did not offend anyone.  I know that there are many liberal Christian groups out there that support the community, and I am thankful that they are there.

You ultimately have to make your own decisions about transition, and with that there may be rejections and loss, but I personally have had so much joy that I can not see it as a bad thing, as my brother seems to insist.

Hugs

Mila

[carol_w]

Mila,
I'm afraid that we're living in a time where TS people are condemned because of a lack of understanding.  I compare it to the way that "witches" were treated in colonial times. 

I'm glad that your parents are accepting - that must make life with your family at least tolerable.

People like your brother, unfortunately, are keeping TS people out of church.  That merely perpetuates the cycle of misunderstanding - hence, my comparison to witchcraft in the 1600's. 

Thanks for your thoughtful contribution to this thread.  I'll be thinking of you...

Carol

P.S.  By the way, you're an awesome artist!  I just peeked at your website...

[Jaynatopia]

I admire anyone that can deal with the rejection of the faith they grew up with and not be jaded, bitter, or angry about it. That takes an enormous peace of spirit.

Fundamentalism seems to require a narrow interpretation of faith and scripture, even making up rules and dogma (and enemies) to reinforce their own world view.


Mila is an awesome artist; Just one of the many reasons I love her so much :-D

I'm glad that your parents are accepting - that must make life with your family at least tolerable.
People like your brother, unfortunately, are keeping TS people out of church.  That merely perpetuates the cycle of misunderstanding - hence, my comparison to witchcraft in the 1600's. 
Thanks for your thoughtful contribution to this thread.  I'll be thinking of you...
Carol
P.S.  By the way, you're an awesome artist!  I just peeked at your website...

[David W. Shelton]

What a wonderful thread! Thank you, everyone!

Keep it up!

[MaggieB]

I was a conservative Christian, a deacon in my church, gave lay sermons in the pulpit, sang in the choir. I was in a horrible marriage and my wife made it so bad that I prayed for death constantly. We did not believe in divorce. One day, I hired a woman for a lab tech at my company where I was the lab supervisor. We fell in love. I was in agony about this because of all the dictums of the church. In one of many prayers, I heard His voice say "It is OK to love Jane" and that led to my divorce. There were many other leadings and such. That was over twenty years ago. The church and my family shunned me and I was never allowed to see my children again.
Now with my daughter from my new marriage about to graduate from college, I am faced with another crisis. I am a transexual and my current spouse is only barely able to handle this. We are both Christians but do not go to church anymore after the treatment we got when we first married. I have prayed thousands of times for this TG to be removed from me but to no answer. The only peace I get is to allow my transition to proceed. I am on HRT and dress androgenously. My spouse and I have fought so badly over this that I wish I was never born many days. I again pray for death most nights. This has been going on for seven years. Now, I am at a crossroads and again praying for guidance. It seems impossible to slow this progress anymore and that I will have to let it happen. My wife is solidly against being viewed as being in a lesbian relationship and this makes me so sad because I followed my Lord to be with her. So where is it now? Why have me become something that she hates? Why put me through this ? All I can say is I have some pretty harsh words to say to God when I see him. Unless, he has decided to throw me into hell.

[genopunk]

Now with my daughter from my new marriage about to graduate from college, I am faced with another crisis. I am a transexual and my current spouse is only barely able to handle this. We are both Christians but do not go to church anymore after the treatment we got when we first married. I have prayed thousands of times for this TG to be removed from me but to no answer. The only peace I get is to allow my transition to proceed. I am on HRT and dress androgenously. My spouse and I have fought so badly over this that I wish I was never born many days. I again pray for death most nights. This has been going on for seven years. Now, I am at a crossroads and again praying for guidance. It seems impossible to slow this progress anymore and that I will have to let it happen. My wife is solidly against being viewed as being in a lesbian relationship and this makes me so sad because I followed my Lord to be with her. So where is it now? Why have me become something that she hates? Why put me through this ? All I can say is I have some pretty harsh words to say to God when I see him. Unless, he has decided to throw me into hell.

First let me say that I feel for your pain and suffering in this matter. 

Unfortunately you are experiencing something that so many of us face in transition.  I know the kind of rejection you are facing, and i can't say that it will be easy.  The best thing i can say to you is, that if you are truly meant to be a woman, and feel that you can not change that about yourself, you must present that information to you wife and let her make her own choice.  I feel that if she is going to stay she needs to be accepting of you, otherwise you will just be suffering more pain.  If she does not want to be seen as a lesbian, she may make the choice to move on.  Understand that this is not a slight against you.  Once can not change their sexual orientation, just as a TS can not change their gender identity.  If she fell in love with a man, and does not feel attraction to women, she of course will be pushed away.  I know that it is a hard place to be in, but remember too that any god who would create you as you are, loves you for who you are, otherwise how can this be a just and loving god? 

The question you must ask yourself is this.  Do I love myself?  Is the person I am becoming who I want to be.

You speak of asking god to lift this burden.  Why not ask for the understanding of your spouse? Why not ask for acceptance in yourself.   

If you are not comfortable with yourself, how can anyone be comfortable with you?  This was a question my ex-wife asked me right before I transitioned.  She had a good point, and it lead to a grater understanding of who I am and what I had to do.  Instead of praying for it to go away, I found a new path in embracing who I was, and am more comfortable with my new found beliefs that I ever was in the loathing that was pressed upon me by others and myself.  Now when people ask if I am TS, I gladly answer them, and educate as much as I can.  The more I have accepted myself, the more people look at me and see that I am happy and comfortable with myself.

It is much harder to tell someone who is happy with themselves that they are "sinful", especially now that I have done some religious research, and found that I actually have a right to be who I am.

"Let not the eunuch say, 'Behold, I am a dry tree.' For thus says YAHWEH: 'To the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths, who choose the things that please me and hold fast my covenant, I will give in my house and within my walls a monument and a name better than sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name which shall not be cut off." -- Isaiah 56:3-5

Hope that helps

Hugs

Mila

[MaggieB]

Mila,
A few times in my life, the Lord has had to communicate to me through another and your post is one of these. Thank you.

[Jaynatopia]

What a beautiful conversation this has become! I got quite teared up reading these posts. I have to say that I don't think I could be religious until I accepted my identity as female. Only when I owned it and have grown more comfortable with myself have I felt that I can start asking myself spiritual questions and seek spiritual growth.

[genopunk]

Mila,
A few times in my life, the Lord has had to communicate to me through another and your post is one of these. Thank you.

That is a wonderful thing to say Maggie.

I hope that you can find peace in your life, and I hope that things work out of you in the end. 

Hugs

Mila

[Skye]

Not to get off topic, but all the things I have read, to me, talk about a crisis of religion not faith.

I am not a christian.  I like to say I was Catholic till I reached the age of reason.   However, when you feel guilt or question your self because of a church, that is religion.  Faith is your personal belief in something you cannot prove to someone else tangibly.   It could be anything, but its yours and let not anyone take that from you with their petty and poorly constructed concepts of what they think your faith should be.

Remember 2 things.

1.  In business, when making decisions you must first have all the information.   Present the "Unshakable Fact".   Fact,  this is how you feel about your belief in god.   Fact, Faith cannot be proven.   Fact, religion is a construct of man.

2.  Beliefs are concrete while ideas are pliable.   If you find yourself questioning everything about yourself, try turning your beliefs into ideas.    Sure you may have heard scripture for years and years and you can take almost any situation and run it through your 'Jerimiah begat Jebadiah' decoder ring and come out with a phrase or passage from the bible, but the bible is not a manual for life.   It is supposed to be manual for YOUR faith in god.

My sincere hope is that one day, something will happen to the major religions of this world and I say religions not people, that will open the eyes of its followers.   That the world they live in is not quite so black and white as they think.   I understand why they feel the way they do.   They are taught, Heaven and Hell, Right and Wrong.   And therein lies the problem with religion.   Life, in all its complexity is not that simple.

Hope this helps 

[MaggieB]

There is such a big difference between religion and faith. Before I accepted the Lord, I was really very much anti-Christian. I wrote a final term paper in college based on debunking Christianity with scientific methods. Then one day, some miracles happened to me and I heard His voice. There was no denying it at that point. No way not to accept the truth and truth was what I lived for.  I was not happy that God existed and that His son really did die on the cross and was raised from the dead. I preferred a more modern Sci-Fi version and certainly not anything associated with the church.  I tried to adapt to the church and religion but my "relationship" with God turned me in directions that took me out of the church. He even told me once that "No one will understand this" when I was being asked to leave my career and family for another woman. Still, it was right to do as proven by my ex's maniacal treatment of me and the kids for over twenty years. She was getting in the way of what He wanted me to do so I had to leave.

Now, my Transgender condition has brought many challenges to my faith. I wanted to live a life beyond reproach. Clean and controversy free. At one point in my life, I felt that everything was black and white as the Church teaches but God showed me differently. He did direct David to eat the temple grain and he brought about events to cause me to leave my wife. He brought me a new love and we have raised a beautiful daughter, but I have not returned to a church since. Every time I tried, it was not the same. He was not there anymore for me. He forced me to drop my hatred of Gays by my being TG. I was molested by a gay man when I was 16 and wanted gays to be persecuted most of my life. It was easy to do this in the fundamentalist church. But now I am in a community of gays and lesbians, I have had to reexamine my ideas and change. I no longer feel that way about gays. God did this. If God answered my prayers to have this TG condition removed, I am sure I would be the most vocal prophet to preach to everyone. Instead, I am given help and support to learn how to live with it and to see that it is His will. Understanding will have to wait.

[Jessica]

While I understand this is a serious thread.
I really don't have much to add other than:

...I will give them an everlasting name which shall not be cut off.

That's kinda hillarious.

Jessica

[Skye]

I no longer feel that way about gays. God did this.

This is the only thing I can't stand worse than Mormons.   
When at a sporting event, they always thank Jesus or God for that play.  But never blame them for when they loose?   Odd.

Stop giving God credit for things YOU did.   YOU decided to stop hating gay's, YOU decided that the path you were going down was laid there for you by god.  YOU decide how you feel about the outcome of your life.   Its great that you have found faith and you sound as though you are quite pleased with alot of things happening to you, however stop giving undo credit and start taking some.   God didnt tell you "Hey MaggieB, this is God, I want you to leave your wife".   You drew those conclusions by what you felt through your faith.  So take credit AND responsibility for your decisions.   Remind yourself that God, above all things wants you to use that free will he gave you.   If he made decisions for you, it wouldnt be free will would it?

Be proud of what you have done.  Give praise to god for his help, support, spirit, whatever it is that you feel he has given you to make those decisions and come out where you are in life.


Giving God credit for everything is the epitmal definition of religion.

[MaggieB]

I can and do take responsibility for my life's decisions and when I have been corralled into a decision, I know it. I cannot deny that circumstances which are not in my control, come about for a reason. So in this way I was led and am led today. Many times, I have felt that I should stuff this relationship with God and go my own way but I know better. This is not my first barbecue and I have been in situations that only HE saved me. Opportunities that I could not get for myself and doors closing that should not have are characteristics that I saw.  God does treat me in ways that I find that I have a lot of leeway and at other times, none at all. I have seem miracles upon miracles in over 30 years of the relationship. It is true that once one is in His hands, He will not let go.  It is also true that he guides the footsteps. To take a stance that we can predict God or really know what HE will or won't do, is simplistic. I know He will move anything He needs to make his plan come about. What is it? Haven't got a clue.