Female body traits

[maybe_amanda]

Can anyone tell me more about the ring/index finger significance?  Mine are exactly the same length.

Also the arm thing, my hands are about 8" from my body holding both at my side and palms out.

What do these things mean? Are there other traits like this?

[tinkerbell]

I am not quite sure what you mean.  I was never a "big guy" so my measurements are pretty average.  My ring finger is a 6", my height is 5'7", and right now I'm 130lbs.  etc, etc, etc,  In a previous life, I was referred to as the "little guy".  Does this mean anything?  Personally I don't think so but who knows, some people may find some significance in it.  At one point in life, I went through the same questions as everybody else.  I even had a karyotype test done two times, but they both came back as XY.  My advice?  like makeup, take advantage of your good features, enhance them as much as you can and if you believe it is necessary, then find the answers you are looking for by process of elimination.

tink

[maybe_amanda]

I thought I read something about the ratio of index finger to ring finger meaning something but now I can't find it. The arm thing was mentioned also, guys have arms that hang straight down and girls are at an angle to the body. But is this myth or is their some
science behind it?

[Kate]

Can anyone tell me more about the ring/index finger significance?  Mine are exactly the same length.

My ring finger is slightly longer than my index finger. A male trait.

My wife's ring finger is shorter than her index finger. A female trait.

~Kate~

[MeghanAndrews]

Amanda,
What are you looking for in getting these answers, I'm just curious? It almost sounds like, as Tink says, you are looking for some kind of "scientific proof" to help you understand everything. I think I was doing that a long time ago too, I know my mother had massive amounts of estrogen pumped into her during my pregnancy, she told me that when SHE was looking for answers to my gender issues. I personally got past trying to understand it, it doesn't change anything for me. I am who I am and I doubt I'll ever really understand the exact reason nor do I care to at this point

[Dennis]

There was a study that showed that relative lengths of the index and ring finger were correlated to pre-natal exposure to testosterone. Can't remember the correlation particularly.

Dennis

[Jessie_Heart]

my ring finger and my index finger are just the right length to reach out and grab my coffee cup with my hand to get a drink and as long as they are that is all that matters to me. and my arm is shaped just right to hold my hands and fingers on so I can use them to get my coffee cup. I don't know that this has anything to do with being TS but it means that i am built just right to be a coffee drinker and that is good enough for me!!

[seldom]

I am not quite sure what you mean.  I was never a "big guy" so my measurements are pretty average.  My ring finger is a 6", my height is 5'7", and right now I'm 130lbs.  etc, etc, etc,  In a previous life, I was referred to as the "little guy".  Does this mean anything?  Personally I don't think so but who knows, some people may find some significance in it.  At one point in life, I went through the same questions as everybody else.  I even had a karyotype test done two times, but they both came back as XY.  My advice?  like makeup, take advantage of your good features, enhance them as much as you can and if you believe it is necessary, then find the answers you are looking for by process of elimination.

tink

There is genetic intersex conditions and then there is physical intersex conditions, and there are people who have both they are not mutually exclusive though. One can be xy or xx and still be intersex because of gential and reproductive system ambiguity, sorry Karotype testing is not really the ONLY measure that is somebody is intersex.   I personally KNOW I am physically intersex, but I have scars consistent with infant genital correction.  I have no clue about my karyotype. 



The arm length is not the female trait, its the arm angle (known as the carry angle) that is the female trait.  There are other things like hormone sensitivity, hormone levels, other bone structure aspects, etc.  I also have small skinny fingers.  My ring finger and index finger are 2 3/4" on both hands. 

But the truth is IS as it stands is defined in either physical or genetic.  It does not have to be strictly genetic and determined by a karyotype test, as some physical IS conditions have both XY and XX karyotypes.   

The truth is none of this is really important, being yourself is. 

[Wing Walker]

Hi, Amanda,

my ring finger and my index finger are just the right length to reach out and grab my coffee cup with my hand to get a drink and as long as they are that is all that matters to me. and my arm is shaped just right to hold my hands and fingers on so I can use them to get my coffee cup. I don't know that this has anything to do with being TS but it means that i am built just right to be a coffee drinker and that is good enough for me!!

I couldn't have said it better myself!  Don't be so concerned about things that no one will see, and as Tink said, learn to like and use makeup to bring out what you want the world to see and to play-down what you don't want to be noticed as much. 

I believe that it was in one of Shakespeare's plays that someone said "Clothes oft proclaim the man."  They do the same for a woman.  Choose your clothes when you're not in a hurry and try them on before you buy them.  Please yourself first.  Details count.  Take your time, and if you have a friend who will shop with you at least on your first trip, that might be all the better.

For me, I followed my own advice:  Find out who you are inside and be the best her that you can.

I hope this helps.

Wing Walker

[maybe_amanda]

Meghan: You nailed it... I'm looking for "scientific proof" to help me understand and confirm this. Maybe that's foolish
and naive. And you are so right, it's not going to change anything.

It sounds like everyone is saying find out who I am, accept it and quit worrying how to prove it.

I'm truly overwhelmed by how nice everyone has been and taken the time to answer my stupid questions. Thanks!

[Jessie_Heart]

your questions are nowhere near stupid (it may be that I only defend this because I have done the same exact things and wondered the same things so I may be trying to save my own ego here!) I don't know about everyone else but I have in the past and I still catch myself trying to find proof to show the world that this is real! so I guess what I am trying to really say is if your questions were stupid you have company in this anyway. maybe we should start a club!! wait forget it Susan already did that for us!!

[maybe_amanda]

Thanks Jessie, glad to know I'm among my kind 

[MeghanAndrews]

Meghan: You nailed it... I'm looking for "scientific proof" to help me understand and confirm this. Maybe that's foolish
and naive. And you are so right, it's not going to change anything.

It sounds like everyone is saying find out who I am, accept it and quit worrying how to prove it.

I'm truly overwhelmed by how nice everyone has been and taken the time to answer my stupid questions. Thanks!

Amanda, trust me, questions are never foolish and naive! I've been where you are, like I said, and I understand that kind of thinking. I think I've always looked for "proof" in things before I accept them. Somehow all of the thoughts and feelings throughout the years weren't enough in the beginning, I wanted something I could read, something I could reach out and touch.

It was only after a lot of looking around, reading forums, doing research and talking to people that I realized that I wasn't going to find any of these things. I think that might be something you need to arrive at yourself and I think you are doing that. My point was that I did what you are doing and came to the realization about who I am, always have been and what to do about it, even without having this type of 'scientific proof' I wanted. You'll get there, just keep asking the questions and searching for answers, and don't rush it, it'll come to you no matter what you find out Meghan

[Kate]

I'm truly overwhelmed by how nice everyone has been and taken the time to answer my stupid questions. Thanks!

They're not stupid at all. In fact, if you look around, you'll see that these questions - here and on the other threads - are actually quite common. We'd all love to have some validation, some "proof" to justify how we feel.

I think it's important to go through all this. Ask all the questions. Leave no stone unturned. That way, in the end, you won't second-guess yourself.

I read *everything* about this stuff, both the good stuff AND the nasty things said by the religious right and a few controversial scientists. In the end, I decided that no one really knows what's going on with GID. There are hints and clues and good and bad theories, but I doubt it'll EVER be explained completely.

And in the end, as people have said, even if GID is really some sort of weird sexual perversion, the PAIN is still there - no matter how you explain it. Explanations and reasons just won't make it stop.

I sometimes use the metaphor of a flat tire: there you are, pulled over with a flat tire. Now you can analyze it and try to figure out why it happened, and you can debate the morality of whether you should change it or not... but all the time you're just sitting there, and in the end you REALLY need to just change the darn thing and move on, lol.

~Kate~

[Christine Eryn]

Just another thing I'll be paranoid about.   

I never knew about the finger length issue, I'll be doing alot of research. 

[Berliegh]

They're not stupid at all. In fact, if you look around, you'll see that these questions - here and on the other threads - are actually quite common. We'd all love to have some validation, some "proof" to justify how we feel.

I think it's important to go through all this. Ask all the questions. Leave no stone unturned. That way, in the end, you won't second-guess yourself.

I read *everything* about this stuff, both the good stuff AND the nasty things said by the religious right and a few controversial scientists. In the end, I decided that no one really knows what's going on with GID. There are hints and clues and good and bad theories, but I doubt it'll EVER be explained completely.

And in the end, as people have said, even if GID is really some sort of weird sexual perversion, the PAIN is still there - no matter how you explain it. Explanations and reasons just won't make it stop.

I sometimes use the metaphor of a flat tire: there you are, pulled over with a flat tire. Now you can analyze it and try to figure out why it happened, and you can debate the morality of whether you should change it or not... but all the time you're just sitting there, and in the end you REALLY need to just change the darn thing and move on, lol.

~Kate~

Absolutely brilliant post.....you do put things across very well Kate....

[Jessie_Heart]

They're not stupid at all. In fact, if you look around, you'll see that these questions - here and on the other threads - are actually quite common. We'd all love to have some validation, some "proof" to justify how we feel.

I think it's important to go through all this. Ask all the questions. Leave no stone unturned. That way, in the end, you won't second-guess yourself.

I read *everything* about this stuff, both the good stuff AND the nasty things said by the religious right and a few controversial scientists. In the end, I decided that no one really knows what's going on with GID. There are hints and clues and good and bad theories, but I doubt it'll EVER be explained completely.

And in the end, as people have said, even if GID is really some sort of weird sexual perversion, the PAIN is still there - no matter how you explain it. Explanations and reasons just won't make it stop.

I sometimes use the metaphor of a flat tire: there you are, pulled over with a flat tire. Now you can analyze it and try to figure out why it happened, and you can debate the morality of whether you should change it or not... but all the time you're just sitting there, and in the end you REALLY need to just change the darn thing and move on, lol.

~Kate~

Absolutely brilliant post.....you do put things across very well Kate....

I second that Berliegh!

[Karla B]

I'm truly overwhelmed by how nice everyone has been and taken the time to answer my stupid questions. Thanks!

They're not stupid at all. In fact, if you look around, you'll see that these questions - here and on the other threads - are actually quite common. We'd all love to have some validation, some "proof" to justify how we feel.

I think it's important to go through all this. Ask all the questions. Leave no stone unturned. That way, in the end, you won't second-guess yourself.

I read *everything* about this stuff, both the good stuff AND the nasty things said by the religious right and a few controversial scientists. In the end, I decided that no one really knows what's going on with GID. There are hints and clues and good and bad theories, but I doubt it'll EVER be explained completely.

And in the end, as people have said, even if GID is really some sort of weird sexual perversion, the PAIN is still there - no matter how you explain it. Explanations and reasons just won't make it stop.

I sometimes use the metaphor of a flat tire: there you are, pulled over with a flat tire. Now you can analyze it and try to figure out why it happened, and you can debate the morality of whether you should change it or not... but all the time you're just sitting there, and in the end you REALLY need to just change the darn thing and move on, lol.

~Kate~

Yes, I third that! I believe that Kate has a very good understanding of who she is and has both feet on solid ground.
I enjoy reading all of her replys.

[gothique11]

I agree that spending too much time trying to validate yourself via being intersexed could be a bit dangerous (what if you found out you weren't, then how would you feel?)


Still, I find these little things interesting. I'm a curious girl!  I heard of the finger-digit-ratio thingy before. Mine are the same size, so I have no idea what that means.

I have no idea about the carry arm thing. I heard it mentioned once and I tried looking it up and didn't find anything on it. I don't even know what it is!

And then I think their are facial things.

I asked my doctor about getting my genes tested, but he wouldn't do it because too many TS people try to use that to validate themselves and he didn't want me to fall into that trap. He said that I was a girl and to keep going, rather than to sit around and try to question things. I still wonder, although... not as a way to validate, but more so out of being curious.

I know some trans people who get into the trap of trying to find a reason via being intersexed some how and then brag about it to other TS people as if they have more validation as a woman than someone who doesn't have those traits. It's not a healthy thing for either people. We're all in the same boat and we're not in a rat race or who's better than who game. That just creates an unhealthy atmosphere.

[maybe_amanda]

You are probably right, I need to stop looking for reasons and validation and deal with it.

The arm carry thing: as I understand it when a male holds his hand at his side's with the palms out, his hands are nearly touching his legs. In females the arms jut out at an angle and the hands are 6" to 12" from their legs. In my case they are probably close to 12". I've only read about this recently and will provide a link if I run across it again. It is similar to the finger length's in that it might show some intersex situation because of improper hormonal conditions in the womb.