Can we talk about cis-passing privilege?

[RachelsMantra]

I take it to be not a controversial statement that not all trans people have or ever will have cis-passing privilege. It also doesn't seem controversial to me that passing as cis is indeed a great privilege. It means you have the power to disclose your trans status, to blend into society, and escape the harassment that visibly trans people experience on a daily basis. It also doesn't seem controversial to me that more trans men have cis-passing privilege than trans women.

Questions I have been pondering:

(1) What is the percentage of trans women that have cis-passing privilege?

(2) How many trans women believe they are cis-passing when they are in fact not cis-passing?

(3) Conversely, how many trans women believe they are not cis-passing when they are in fact cis-passing?

(4) How man trans women have the goal of cis-passing or would consider their transition a "failure" if they were not cis-passing?

(5) Can a desire to be cis-passing in some cases be mentally unhealthy or toxic for the trans community?

(6) What is the difference between passing and cis-passing if there is one? Can you pass for female even if you don't look cis?

(7) How many trans women feel like they are passing as female (being ma'amed in public) but don't feel like they are cis-passing? This is how I feel. I haven't been "sirred" in awhile and get "ma'amed" quite a bit but I always feel like they can tell I am trans (especially because of my voice). I don't look male - but I don't look like a cis woman either.

(8 ) How many trans women have cis-passing privilege until they open their mouth to speak?



Ok, I think that's enough questions to start a discussion. Don't feel like you have to answer all the questions if you want to contribute.

[Ms Grace]

I seriously don't see the purpose of putting "cis" in front of "passing". The whole concept of passing is toxic enough without trying to pollute it further.

But to answer a couple of your questions, judging by comments on this forum there are plenty of members who trenchantly believe they don't "pass" when they clearly "should". There are plenty of trans people who believe they "don't pass" and don't care. Yes, focusing on "passing" as the be all and end all of transition is highly unhealthy for many, many reasons. I'm more focussed on living my life as the best woman I can be rather than worrying about "passing" - does that mean I don't take care with my appearance and presentation? Of course not, but I know what works for me and I use it.

[Cindy]

I have to admit that I keep thinking that passing is something you do in various codes of football.

I'm a woman, I'm treated as such and I enjoy living as such.

Comparisons to other women who may be more or less attractive than I am  for whatever reason seems to be totally futile.

[RachelsMantra]

I seriously don't see the purpose of putting "cis" in front of "passing". The whole concept of passing is toxic enough without trying to pollute it further.

I heard the term "cis-passing" at a trans panel talk last night by trans activist Cece McDonald and I felt it was a more accurate term than "passing", which is kind of vague.

[Ms Grace]

Well I'm not surprised, activists usually like to create and use divisive language that only seems to inflame anger and separation. I prefer an advocacy approach of everyone getting along together based on similarity and common ground/goals.

[stephaniec]

how about cis-healing . Cis-healing is when you don't give a damn what others think because you need to heal a deep wound in your psyche and its really no one else's business.

[SashaGrace]

My 2 Penneth for what it's worth, I couldn't give a damn if I'm cis passing or not. I look in the mirror and I see something I'm happy with. I haven't had a male pronoun given to me for ages, can't remember the last time it happened. I have a girly enough voice to get by and that'll do me.

With regards to my looks, I think I'm lucky enough to have started young and HRT has been kind to me; but I don't care, I know I am a woman because that's how I feel, looks wise, I think I'm beautiful. Vain as it may be, I do and I'm so happy with that. I feel sorry for all those who don't like their bodies be they cis, trans or whatever. I'm happy in who I am and I couldn't give a stuff what anyone else thinks xx

[Kylo]

I don't think I even had much of the privilege of cis-passing, never mind the future problem of whether I'll trans pass. Can't miss what I never had, huh?

[melissa_h]

Passing is a very real issue because of how folks will treat you. But ... it is something that is difficult to get too wrapped up in for me at the moment. 

the questions boil down to two concepts:  The core concept is "what will other people think of me?"  The second is, how secure do I feel that others will think what I want them to think?

In most walks of life, worrying about what other people think of you is usually something that is not at all encouraged.

In this community ... yeah, it's a bit different, because there can be some harsh repercussions for some folks that don't pass.

But that said, I still try to focus on the me, how I feel, and how I act, because those are the only variables I can control.  (note: all that's easier to say since I'm not out full time, and when I am out, I know I'm not passing ... no pressure here).

[stephaniec]

Cis-passing sounds like you need the permission of one or more cis -person to live your life

[Oliviah]

I think passing privilege is mixed up with beauty privilege sometimes.  I think I am not passable really, but damn I am so cute it doesn't even matter.  I have pretty privilege. 

[stephaniec]

I think passing privilege is mixed up with beauty privilege sometimes.  I think I am not passable really, but damn I am so cute it doesn't even matter.  I have pretty privilege.

I think you have great hair privilege

[Oliviah]

I think you have great hair privilege

Aww thank you. 

[Lady Smith]

Being non-binary and dressing androgynous most of the time pronouns don't bother me a lot.  Most of the time I get addressed on the female side of things, though the other day a young counter clerk did call me 'sir' which I didn't mind at all because there wasn't any kind of vindictiveness behind it.  Folk who address me as male in an effort to upset me though that does tend to annoy me and my usual response is to not rise to the bait and act as if I didn't hear them so they end up looking small minded and daft.

When it comes to 'passing' the only person I want to pass as is ME which I manage to do most of the time.  The question of personal safety due to violence possibly being handed out mostly by cis males is always a concern in the back of my mind which means that I do take note of my surroundings and avoid situations and places that could be dangerous.  I will admit though that by and large New Zealand is a safe place to live and most folk are Trans-friendly so it's not too much of a problem.

[Rejennyrated]

I think I have it, but then how would I know? All I can tell is that people make no difficulties for me, and that is all that matters. Everything else is just vanity. If no one ever makes an issue out of you being trans, then it does not matter.

In the absence of any prejudice or issues one would have to question why being seen as cis was so important?

Could it be that this person is transphobic about being trans? Do they secretly feel ashamed of what they are, and therefore wish to sustain the illusion that they are something they are not?

Presumably anyone who chooses illusion over truth does so because they feel that cis is in someway superior to trans! In other words they are transphobic about their own transness. That would not be a healthy or comfortable mindset for someone who IS trans to have, because it basically means they think they are inferior. That is a dirty filthy big fat offensive transphobic LIE!

Trans people are in NO WAY inferior to cis people endof!

[stephaniec]

It does bother me whenever this subject comes up. My take on this whole issue is my health which I tend to extrapolate to other trans. I liked to have a world with absolutely no prejudice of any kind what so ever . I wish humankind was capable of the kind of peace I dream of. Back to "passing", to me it's the right of every human to achieve health and this concept of passing seems to be a negation of equal heath for all, which in my personal view is wrong. Everyone wants to be beautiful which they are . Millions of years has gone into the creation of each individual. We all deserve to be seen as beautiful and not just the small % that can achieve some so called objective standard of beauty. It's wrong to deny health to someone who doesn't achieve  that hypothetical objective concept of "passing". Sorry I'm ranting, just my 2.16 cents. I Use to be a Hippie so sometimes I get a little Idealist.

[Anna33]

how about cis-healing . Cis-healing is when you don't give a damn what others think because you need to heal a deep wound in your psyche and its really no one else's business.

Best answer. I personally want to blend in. I dont care if i pass or dont pass. I dont want to be looked at. I dress up for me not for ppl. I want to feel pretty, i dont need external validation.

But so far i found out that attitude is the best tool to blend in.

If you feel uncomfortable it shows. If you dont give a crap, people will pick up on that vibe and respect you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tristyn]

I take it to be not a controversial statement that not all trans people have or ever will have cis-passing privilege. It also doesn't seem controversial to me that passing as cis is indeed a great privilege. It means you have the power to disclose your trans status, to blend into society, and escape the harassment that visibly trans people experience on a daily basis. It also doesn't seem controversial to me that more trans men have cis-passing privilege than trans women.

Questions I have been pondering:

(1) What is the percentage of trans women that have cis-passing privilege?

(2) How many trans women believe they are cis-passing when they are in fact not cis-passing?

(3) Conversely, how many trans women believe they are not cis-passing when they are in fact cis-passing?

(4) How man trans women have the goal of cis-passing or would consider their transition a "failure" if they were not cis-passing?

(5) Can a desire to be cis-passing in some cases be mentally unhealthy or toxic for the trans community?

(6) What is the difference between passing and cis-passing if there is one? Can you pass for female even if you don't look cis?

(7) How many trans women feel like they are passing as female (being ma'amed in public) but don't feel like they are cis-passing? This is how I feel. I haven't been "sirred" in awhile and get "ma'amed" quite a bit but I always feel like they can tell I am trans (especially because of my voice). I don't look male - but I don't look like a cis woman either.

(8 ) How many trans women have cis-passing privilege until they open their mouth to speak?



Ok, I think that's enough questions to start a discussion. Don't feel like you have to answer all the questions if you want to contribute.

What the heck is "cis-passing" and what is the difference between that and just "passing?" And how could anyone have the precise results of some of the statistics you are asking for? Like how could anyone collect information such as "How many trans women believe they are cis-passing when they are in fact not cis-passing?" Like, how could someone really know the answer to that?

From what I've researched, not very many transgender women(and men) like to come out publicly enough to be recorded for statistical purposes. So I highly doubt you will receive an accurate answer to those sort of questions. And also, how exactly did you ever come to the conclusion that transmen have more "cis-passing" privilege than transwomen, whatever "cis-passing" means?

~Nixy~

[sparrow]

Not getting ->-bleeped-<-ty looks from people wherever you go is a privilege.

[suzifrommd]

Comparisons to other women who may be more or less attractive than I am  for whatever reason seems to be totally futile.

Cindy, I think this is an easy statement for you and I to make. If you have secure housing in a safe area, stable employment, and prominent social standing, whether you pass as cis or not is a nicety.

When your employment depends on your employer not noticing you are trans, when being clocked in public could mean you are the victim of harassment or violence at any time, when the person you rent from could decide to evict you based on your gender identity if they found out, passing is a necessity and not passing magnifies hardship.

I just came from a conference where intersectionality and privilege were a prominent topic and it opened my eyes to how different life is for those whose economic and cultural realities don't match mine.