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Transsexuality proven as Biological?

Started by LizK, November 29, 2015, 08:53:24 PM

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LizK

I came across this post on face book yesterday and I think it's one of those things I think we already knew

Science in transition: Understanding the biology behind gender identity

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life/science-in-transition-understanding-the-biology-behind-gender-identity/article25553156/

"We show that trans sexuality is a human biological variation, and I think that is a kind of relief for transgender people," Kranz says.

The Globe and Male/By SARAH HAMPSON Last updated Monday, Jul. 20, 2015 7:14PM EDT
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
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diane 2606

Thank you for finding and sharing the Globe and Mail article. Science marches on, eh?
"Old age ain't no place for sissies." — Bette Davis
Social expectations are not the boss of me.
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LizK

Since I came out awhile back I have heard the word "choice" used to describe my decision. I think my "choice" to transition is akin to someone "choosing" to have their appendix out...and now that the science is beginning to back up what we have always known...we were born this way...maybe tolerance will increase and possibly even acceptance for some.
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
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Rejennyrated

Quote from: diane 2606 on November 30, 2015, 04:06:58 PM
Thank you for finding and sharing the Globe and Mail article. Science marches on, eh?
Its not science that marches on but the understanding of ordinary people - SICENCE has known this was biological since the 1980's at least! The ordinary numpty in the street, who had for a long time been willfully misled by rubbish oversimplistic journalism and religion, is finally catching up!
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LizK

Quote from: Rejennyrated on December 01, 2015, 01:43:46 AM
Its not science that marches on but the understanding of ordinary people - SICENCE has known this was biological since the 1980's at least! The ordinary numpty in the street, who had for a long time been willfully misled by rubbish oversimplistic journalism and religion, is finally catching up!

OMG..ince 1980? oh wow :o :o...they way they were talking this is completely new...it just shows how much we are at the mercy of our media ??? whether good or bad
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
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katrinaw

Hmm, wish I'd known that all those years ago!

Oh well, "better late than never, I say"

Katy xx
Long term MTF in transition... HRT since ~ 2003...
Journey recommenced Sept 2015  :eusa_clap:... planning FT 2016  :eusa_pray:

Randomly changing 'Katy PIC's'

Live life, embrace life and love life xxx
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diane 2606

Quote from: Rejennyrated on December 01, 2015, 01:43:46 AM
Its not science that marches on but the understanding of ordinary people - SICENCE has known this was biological since the 1980's at least! The ordinary numpty in the street, who had for a long time been willfully misled by rubbish oversimplistic journalism and religion, is finally catching up!

Yes, that too. In the '80s there were too few studies showing a physical link so it was easy for the mainstream to marginalize them as junk science. Now, more good studies are being done. I don't think any researcher has produced the smoking gun, but there is a preponderance of circumstantial evidence pointing to gestational factors as the reason for our existence.  An it hasn't hurt that high profile transgendered people, like Caitlyn, are making themselves known which gets the discussion going rather than being ignored. We're not there yet, but things are so much better than they were 20 years ago.
"Old age ain't no place for sissies." — Bette Davis
Social expectations are not the boss of me.
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AnonyMs

I don't see how it could be anything except biological. I'm not a computer. What else is there, magical?
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Eva Marie

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 01, 2015, 09:05:34 PM
I don't see how it could be anything except biological. I'm not a computer. What else is there, magical?

I agree with you - I believe its biology - but a lot of the world doesn't see it the same way. They believe that it's a choice or it's caused by some life event or that it's caused by the way you were raised.

The good news is that the younger generation grew up with gay friends so being trans to them is not so much of a stretch. As an example my own young adult kids were pretty cool with my transition - my oldest kid has lesbian and gay friends and my youngest kid attends college in a very LGBT friendly community and she has been active in some of their events.

I believe that with the passing of the older generations we will gain more and more acceptance.
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Futurist

Quote from: Eva Marie on December 01, 2015, 09:22:59 PM
I agree with you - I believe its biology - but a lot of the world doesn't see it the same way. They believe that it's a choice or it's caused by some life event or that it's caused by the way you were raised.

If being transgender was a choice, then I could easily choose to turn myself into a trans-woman at will. However, it doesn't work that way; indeed, I myself previously tried to do this, was unsuccessful in regards to this, and concluded that while I am (or want to become) a girly boy/girly eunuch, I am certainly not a girl. It really is as simple as that.
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Futurist

Quote from: AnonyMs on December 01, 2015, 09:05:34 PM
I don't see how it could be anything except biological. I'm not a computer. What else is there, magical?
Yes; magical. ;) LOL; joking! :D
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AnonyMs

Quote from: Eva Marie on December 01, 2015, 09:22:59 PM
I agree with you - I believe its biology - but a lot of the world doesn't see it the same way. They believe that it's a choice or it's caused by some life event or that it's caused by the way you were raised.

I'm not arguing with you, but if is is a choice, and for some perhaps it is, then so what? I live the way I want and its no one else's business. Its' a free country, isn't it?

Quote from: Eva Marie on December 01, 2015, 09:22:59 PM
I believe that with the passing of the older generations we will gain more and more acceptance.

I'm all for that, except I've slowly been turning into one of them. Not too keen on passing myself...
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Dana60

Very interesting article, it is good to see that these studies are supporting that being trans is biological.
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Debra

Wish my parents would even desire to read this.....

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BeverlyAnn

Quote from: sarahtokes on December 01, 2015, 01:21:21 AM
Since I came out awhile back I have heard the word "choice" used to describe my decision. I think my "choice" to transition is akin to someone "choosing" to have their appendix out...

Sarah, this is part of a letter I am writing for my family covering the "choice" attitude.  Much of this was taken from someone's letter they wrote.

This is the part where I want to make clear that this is not a choice. I am not deciding to become female. This is me allowing myself to be who I am, who I've always been and it is the only route that I can take, because I am done lying about who I am. In transitioning from male to female, I am going to become a second-class citizen in the eyes of many people. I am going to be opening myself up to discrimination and hate. Discrimination and hate that's even being spewed by bitter men trying to become president.  I am opening myself up to abandonment and rejection by family and friends. I am diving headfirst into what is really a whole world of social trouble along with the possible threat of violence, and it is not something that I would choose to do. I'm going to go into debt due to medical bills, and this is not something that I would choose to do. This is the next step of my life, of my existence and of my development as a person but it was never a choice.
Always forgive your enemies; nothing annoys them so much. - Oscar Wilde



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HughE

Good article!

QuoteOne of the leading experts on the subject is Dick Swaab, professor of neurobiology at the University of Amsterdam and author of the book We Are Our Brains. According to his theory, which the researchers at University of Vienna share, the male hormone, testosterone, plays a key role in shaping the parts of our brain that influence gender identities. This happens in the womb during the second of two phases. In the first half of gestation, surges of testosterone – or the absence of it – influence the development of the genitals as male or female. In the second half of fetal development, testosterone surges – or their absence – shape the brain in terms of gender identity in the female or male direction.

The only thing that's missing from it is the fact that, as a result of treatment aimed at preventing miscarriages and premature births, there are millions of nominally male people alive today who were exposed during that second phase to high doses of synthetic hormones with testosterone-suppressing properties.



This is an excerpt from the book "Brain Sex", first published in 1989. That book only talks about the effects of medical hormone exposures on behaviour and makes no mention of effects on gender identity. However, the prevailing theory in 1989 was that gender identity was learned rather than being something you're born with, so they wouldn't have been looking for effects on gender identity. Most of us had never heard of ->-bleeped-<- until the internet came along, and were trying to do our best to fit in as our assigned gender when that book was written, so it wouldn't have been apparent that, for many of us who've had these hormone exposures, it's not just our behaviour that's been altered, it's our entire core identity too.
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Lisa55

I think its going to be one of those things that eventually people will look back on and think, why did they ever think it wasn't biological, FFS didn't they look at large chunks of nature where in reptiles the sex is determined by the temperature of an egg in the sand, or the fish world where some species change gender when there is a need to keep a balance or hierarchy on the reef. Ok so humans need a little help in the correction department, but its clear that sex determination is fragile and sensitive and far from fixed and binary and that's in animals that are not even close to the complexity and cognitive ability of humans
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Kerry30Den

Quote from: Lisa55 on December 26, 2015, 05:13:57 PM
I think its going to be one of those things that eventually people will look back on and think, why did they ever think it wasn't biological, FFS didn't they look at large chunks of nature where in reptiles the sex is determined by the temperature of an egg in the sand, or the fish world where some species change gender when there is a need to keep a balance or hierarchy on the reef. Ok so humans need a little help in the correction department, but its clear that sex determination is fragile and sensitive and far from fixed and binary and that's in animals that are not even close to the complexity and cognitive ability of humans

They fact that there's a mixing of chromosomes that determine whether a fetus will develop into a male or continue to develop into a female (memory from biology that we all start a female) makes it certain in my mind that things aren't 100%.  We have a plethora of things that might or might not happen in the conception and growth process in the womb that could lead to trans gendered offspring (many of which we won't understand anytime soon).  I don't think choice is a factor in sexual orientation nor gender identity.
Happily married CD, out to my wife and select friends.
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Patti


Quote from: HughE on December 26, 2015, 01:25:19 AM
Good article!

The only thing that's missing from it is the fact that, as a result of treatment aimed at preventing miscarriages and premature births, there are millions of nominally male people alive today who were exposed during that second phase to high doses of synthetic hormones with testosterone-suppressing properties.


Really interesting. I looked up the hormone on the image from the book. I'm wondering if I was exposed as I may have had one of the complications that was listed in wiki (yeah yeah Wikipedia). It's common but I also know my moms OB/Gyn was old school. And the procedure I had done short after birth would have corrected the issues from that complication.


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