About to sign up w/ Spiegel, but still find myself questioning... halp?

[LadyDrifterLana]

Hi everyone, I am a new poster on this forum after being a lurker for a while...

I am on the verge of scheduling with Dr. Spiegel for my FFS procedures but I really need some support and reflection.

Here I am in eye blinding HD with some basic makeup on!:

http://i.imgur.com/SLjGpBu.jpg

I had a consult with Dr S. in which he listened to my flustered explanation of my desires and expressed his opinion on what I could benefit from.

His order of importance for me was:

Forehead Reconstruction
Mandible Contouring
Fat Grafting to Cheeks
Rhinoplasty

He said he would do incisions up inside the hairline and I would lose very little hair, and that my natural hairline is fine.

Now I am working within a budget so I can only afford to do Forehead Reconstruction, Mandible Contouring, and Rhinoplasty. Unfortunately I don't think I can come up with the $ for the fat grafting.

OR I could skip the rhinoplasty and get fat grafting to my cheeks and a trachea shave, but Dr. S said that my trachea was the least of my concerns.

I figure I can do my cheeks later if I want, but that I should have my rhinoplasty done at the same time as this other bone work so that my nose and forehead and jaw all flow together properly.

So, here is an album of some photos of me from various angles and lighting. I tried to upload clear ones that highlight my bone structure.

http://imgur.com/a/pRm66

I was hoping someone could tell me if I am choosing the right procedures, and if Dr. Spiegel will be able to make me look natural and beautiful...

I have heard everything from Dr. S is too conservative to Dr. S will be as aggressive as you want... I want him to give me that perfect forehead. I want a -very- feminine result.

Thank you for reading <3

Lana

[cindianna_jones]

Welcome to Susan's!

Before I chime in, are you on HRT? If so, how long. Sometimes HRT can make significant changes, especially in fat distribution in your face. I don't know that you really need FFS. But then again, you may want it. I can understand that.

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[BellaSwan]

You are very feminine looking already. I would say a facial height reduction i.e. chin work is far, far more important than jaw work, your jaw is fine. And brows.

Forehead, nose, chin, malar and submalar cheek implants for optimal effect.

Forehead, chin, and either rhinoplasty or cheek enhancement if you have to choose just one of the last. I can't decide what would benefit you more, which is unusual, because sure your nose could be made more aesthetically pleasing, it's not in as much need for feminization as your cheeks.

[LadyDrifterLana]

Welcome to Susan's!

Before I chime in, are you on HRT? If so, how long. Sometimes HRT can make significant changes, especially in fat distribution in your face.

Please check out the following links for site rules, helpful tips and other info...
(helpful links)

Hi, thank you for the warm welcome!

Well, I started HRT at 18 and stayed on it well into my 20's. I was about 6.5 yrs into HRT when I went through a crisis period and detransitioned without access to HRT. I lived as a boy for ~2 yrs but started back on HRT in August 2014 and have been on it consistently since.

I have some more pics around if you want to see when was previously ~6 yrs into HRT and 24 yrs old.

Glad to be joining the community!
Lana

[LadyDrifterLana]

You are very feminine looking already. I would say a facial height reduction i.e. chin work is far, far more important than jaw work, your jaw is fine. And brows.

Forehead, nose, chin, malar and submalar cheek implants for optimal effect.

Forehead, chin, and either rhinoplasty or cheek enhancement if you have to choose just one of the last. I can't decide what would benefit you more, which is unusual, because sure your nose could be made more aesthetically pleasing, it's not in as much need for feminization as your cheeks.

Thank you for the kind words. I have debated on my jaw, but it is quite wide when it stands out behind my smile. Perhaps with the cheeks and chin fixed it would be OK?

Dr. S said that the mandible contouring included the chin, the jaw, everything. Would that take care of the height issue you are mentioning?

I really wish I could get the cheek fat grafting as well... I could always sell my car...

[BellaSwan]

Oh right, then I'm theory yes, but I don't know if he adequately shortens chins vertically. Anyway, with the fat grafting vs rhino - does your nose bother you? I do tend to prefer imp,ants to fat grafting when we're talking cheek bones though..

[LadyDrifterLana]

After checking out the post ranks, I realize I'm an uber noob here... I hope no one minds too much! 

I do a lot of reading online, I hope I'm not stepping on any toes.

I promise I'll follow the rules!

[LadyDrifterLana]

Oh right, then I'm theory yes, but I don't know if he adequately shortens chins vertically. Anyway, with the fat grafting vs rhino - does your nose bother you? I do tend to prefer imp,ants to fat grafting when we're talking cheek bones though..

I was thinking about doing a cheek filler like voluma or something due to the lower up-front cost...

My nose does bother me somewhat and it has the hump. I know sometimes girls of my genetic background have the hump, but I want to be straight "GORGI" like Princess Jasmine 

It's not terrible, but it's not getting any cuter as I age...

[Lagertha]

Hi! When I look at side profile pics your chin and jaw height looks fine, but when I look at frontal pics I would swear you would need vertical reduction. I'm a little confused...
"mandible contouring" is probably jaw and chin work.. 

I think you should do nose at the same time as forehead. You can have fat grafting done later if you'll feel like you need it. Its one of those procedures that can be done under local anesthesia and sedation. If you find an option to save up some extra money, might as well do it now. Or maybe ask him for discount?

I would really love to see the final result! I think you have very interesting facial harmony, and I think you will look amazing.

[LadyDrifterLana]

Hi! When I look at side profile pics your chin and jaw height looks fine, but when I look at frontal pics I would swear you would need vertical reduction. I'm a little confused...
"mandible contouring" is probably jaw and chin work.. 

I think you should do nose at the same time as forehead. You can have fat grafting done later if you'll feel like you need it. Its one of those procedures that can be done under local anesthesia and sedation. If you find an option to save up some extra money, might as well do it now. Or maybe ask him for discount?

I would really love to see the final result! I think you have very interesting facial harmony, and I think you will look amazing.

Thank you for the input! I have asked Katie @ Dr. S's office for a discount via email... but I have not heard anything back yet.

I saw your input about the different surgeons that do Type 3 forehead in the "FFS Worries" thread... do you think Dr. Spiegel specifically is a wise choice for me to get these procedures?

I wish Dr. Spiegel would have wowed me with some fibonacci golden-ratio face-beauty mapping software or some idea of what I would look like after the work. He looked at my bone structure and felt my head and gave me his priority list. He said his aesthetic is to kind of let the "bones speak to him"... which IS a good answer for someone who spends all of their time working with aesthetics and actually crafting people's skulls, IMO.

Dr. S is within driving distance of me, so he's convenient. I would get a consult with DeSchamps/Braly but I am pretty sure I can't afford to travel to SF and get all the stuff I am going to get done with Dr. S.

Thank you for the vote of confidence! I really do hope to be pretty when this is all said and done. Before I thought I could get FFS I was going through a lot of cyclical body dysmorphia - doubts about whether or not I would ever be able to "Pass 100%". I know passing is a lot more than just my facial structure, I have my body to worry about, mannerisms...voice... but I have been doing this a long time now, and kind of think FFS is going to "save my life" and free me from seeing this masculine image in the mirror.

[Danielle11746]

I would suggest doing all the bone work first, then allowing it to heal fully before augmenting your cheeks, as the projection of them will change after surgery. 

[LadyDrifterLana]

I would suggest doing all the bone work first, then allowing it to heal fully before augmenting your cheeks, as the projection of them will change after surgery.

This sounds like good advice! Thanks!

[Lagertha]

I saw your input about the different surgeons that do Type 3 forehead in the "FFS Worries" thread... do you think Dr. Spiegel specifically is a wise choice for me to get these procedures?

For forehead definitely. I think you can expect really good result there. What I mentioned is in other thread is really up to aesthetics, and what specific shape and curve of forehead you look for. Spiegel prefers more flat forehead, as do Facial team, while Ousterhout and DiMaggio like to do more curved foreheads- not always possible, but when it is the like to reduce lower forehead third as much as they can. It doesnt go with every face type... this is not so much about feminization as it is aesthetic details. If you want to spend some time about this, compare the results of surgeons I mention to see the differences. For forehead alone I think you are as good with Spiegel as with anybody else. I cant say much about chin and jaw because Im not really that familiar with that area of Spiegels results.

[BellaSwan]

To be honest, Lagertha once again makes an excellent point - Spiegel does favor flat foreheads, and in your case that might be the perfect fit. I think it would suit your bone structure better than an uber curved one.

My point about the rhinoplasty was just that if her nose wasn't bothering her, the cheeks would be the more feminizing option to go with. Her nose doesn't have a particularly MALE look. But if it but here you, then obviously do that first. Fillers you can always get.

I will also admit, in my rush to express my general dislike of Spiegel's surgical style, I wasn't taking into account that you really don't need much done. You look very feminine already. He might be the perfect fit for you. Especially if he's within driving distance!

[Lagertha]

Also! If you are from Massachusetts, and you have insurance, you should really look if you can have this covered. I think there is a certain state law regarding this. I know somebody posted something about this maybe a year ago... she had like 90% of her FFS with Spiegel covered.

[LadyDrifterLana]

For forehead definitely. I think you can expect really good result there. What I mentioned is in other thread is really up to aesthetics, and what specific shape and curve of forehead you look for. Spiegel prefers more flat forehead, as do Facial team, while Ousterhout and DiMaggio like to do more curved foreheads- not always possible, but when it is the like to reduce lower forehead third as much as they can. It doesnt go with every face type... this is not so much about feminization as it is aesthetic details. If you want to spend some time about this, compare the results of surgeons I mention to see the differences. For forehead alone I think you are as good with Spiegel as with anybody else. I cant say much about chin and jaw because Im not really that familiar with that area of Spiegels results.

Thank you, it is good to hear that his forehead results are really good.

I know I want a type 3 after talking to Dr. Spiegel and reading the virtualffs website and comparing Dr. S results to the shave + fill technique. I was lost on the different aesthetics, though. I guess the aesthetic differences are hard for me to pick out without seeing more type 3 photos from various surgeons?

Ugh I wish I was from MA but unfortunately I am from New York. I have United Health Care, and I heard someone say that they had gotten them to reimburse for it, but in New Jersey. I believe the state plan I have here in NY only has to cover SRS and specifically forbids FFS. I need to call and get a copy of the specific policy I suppose?

[LadyDrifterLana]

To be honest, Lagertha once again makes an excellent point - Spiegel does favor flat foreheads, and in your case that might be the perfect fit. I think it would suit your bone structure better than an uber curved one.

My point about the rhinoplasty was just that if her nose wasn't bothering her, the cheeks would be the more feminizing option to go with. Her nose doesn't have a particularly MALE look. But if it but here you, then obviously do that first. Fillers you can always get.

I will also admit, in my rush to express my general dislike of Spiegel's surgical style, I wasn't taking into account that you really don't need much done. You look very feminine already. He might be the perfect fit for you. Especially if he's within driving distance!

It's nice to hear that I look very feminine! I want to believe that Dr. S is gonna put the icing on my cake 

I want the best result I can get... if I'm gonna do this I wanna jump in with both feet... I want to be fully custom lol

I guess I need to look at more photos, I don't really know what the difference in flat vs curved forehead is. I like Gigi's forehead and watching her before/after videos actually sold me on Dr. Spiegel quite a bit. I figured our faces/bones were kinda similar. I know someone said they thought Gigi's jaw was a little masculine on another thread, and I would agree it's not super femme, but I still think she's rather pretty. I don't think she had her jaw done?

I knew type 3 had an "ideal" to go for, but I am kind of clueless as to the differences in their approach and different aesthetics. I am having trouble finding a lot of photos from specific surgeons. Tried to join the FFS yahoo group but I'm still waiting on their joining instructions. Maybe it's for the best? I hear there's some scary stuff there I might not wanna see.

I feel like as long as he's in his groove and having a good day everything will go fine... but part of me needs a lot of reassurance that I have done my homework on this. I am kind of a perfectionist and research everything to death, if possible. I pray for one of those really stunning after photos! It's hard to integrate all the changes and accept myself fully sometimes. I want to be able to immerse myself in living and not have to worry so much about it anymore.

[deeiche]

SNIP
I knew type 3 had an "ideal" to go for, but I am kind of clueless as to the differences in their approach and different aesthetics. I am having trouble finding a lot of photos from specific surgeons. Tried to join the FFS yahoo group but I'm still waiting on their joining instructions. Maybe it's for the best? I hear there's some scary stuff there I might not wanna see.
SNIP

Privacy laws preclude surgeons from posting pictures without permission.  While a lot of people will permit pictures of body procedures, for example abdomen for liposuction, they are less likely to permit their face to be shown.  Hence they shortage of publicly available before / after pictures.

There are a lot of before / after pictures in the Yahoo FFS group, though most of them are years old.  The Yahoo FFS group used to be very vibrant, with daily posts.  Nowadays there can be weeks between posts.  However it is still a good source of information regarding FFS.

[Lagertha]

Yeah, there were some people who posted a little unnecessary and too graphic images on Yahoo. Nevertheless there are many before/after results from many surgeons, going back 10 years.

As for the differences in forehead... I tried to say that type 3 doesnt automatically bring the similar results. It's the surgeon with his skills and aesthetic sense that makes all the difference. If you bother to check (Im not saying you have to) different surgeons you will notice different patterns of their foreheads. Facial team for example will usually more or less just remove the bossing part, and smooth everything out, to create an uniform shape- often rather flat. Spiegel does it in a similar way, but I think he is more often willing to go a bit further. Di Maggio will go all in, and not only remove bossing, but rather do complete set back of whole lower forehead whenever possible, and whenever facial balance and shape allows him too. I would think this has a lot to do with their aesthetic preferences. Di Maggio likes more curved foreheads, while Spiegel likes more flat foreheads. Like we already said, more flat type of forehead will probably work the best for you.

You shouldnt mention Gigi, because BellaSwan will go on a rant again...

[BellaSwan]

I feel Dr Di Maggio and Suporn have similar aesthetics! Dr Van Der Dussen is very focused on balance and proportion which I like for everything but the forehead - to me that needed to be set as far back as possible with as much orbital rim taken away so my eyes could be prominent haha!

Oh my gosh, Lagertha, that was so offensive *cries* Hshaha, for real though, it's not that I think Gigi is ugly, but there's this forum about yotubers where people have posted unedited photos of her, and the tallness of her chin looks the same as before, almost as if Spiegel just contoured it my burring, rather than giving her the genioplasty she needed.