MTF hormones and anti testosterone will it destroy kidneys? Liver?

[mickey.megan]

I am a MTF but not on assisted drugs yet.

I jave heard on ->-bleeped-<- and here and there in conjecture that taking these pills will cause  damage to liver and kidneys? any truth to this? how do I do this and protect my organs, yet I want the fastest transition results possible.

[Rejennyrated]

Provided that you take HRT under proper medical supervision there is no truth to this whatsoever. Its basically another rumour put about by those who think we are deranged perverts and want to do everything in their power (including spreading scare stories) to stop anyone transitioning.

It is true that, like every single thing you eat and drink, oral HRT will pass via the hepatic portal vein from the gut into the liver. It is also true, again like every single nutrient and chemical in your body, that the liver slowly metabolises and filters HRT out, but that is just a natural process. Its not a cause for concern.

The reason that we as clinicians monitor liver function when people take medication is that how well or poorly your liver works will affect the dosage you need to absorb in order to maintain a correct safe serum concentration. It is NOT because we think the stuff will damage the liver!

(Having said that there is one minor exception which Cyproterone Acetate - AKA Androcur - which is slightly hepatoxic - but as there are alternative anti androgens available you can take one of those if it worries you.)

Finally let me explain that I am a 4th year medical student and hence I do have some knowledge, so while this does not constitute medical advice, I am not making this up either.

[Laura_7]

Well there are a few possibilities:
-pills: sublingual intake of bioidentical micronized estrogen... Spreading the daily dose in a few small doses instead of two big ones might help keep levels more steady, instead of highs and lows, which might affect mood in a pms like way...
some people use very small doses of aspirin additionally against clotting... you might ask your doc...
and avoiding smoking should help...

-patches: the vivelle patches are said to be small and stick well.
Skins are different so reaction is individual. One possibility is to combine one patch with pills. The patch to keep levels steady.

-gels: quite convenient with intake

-injections: with biweekly injections there might be a low after 10 days. With weekly injections levels are more steady.

-implants: steady levels and no hassle.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,192044.msg1713877.html#msg1713877

With implants and injections a form of hrt is possible where the estro levels are driven well into the female range and the testo levels down into the female range, without anti androgen.
Its a well known effect considered safe only with implants and injections.
You might look up postings of Jennygirl, she had very good results with implants without anti androgens.

Bioidentical progesterone might compliment estrogen.
It might help with mood, with breast development, even out some side effects of estrogen and has some anti androgen effects.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,192953.msg1733564.html#msg1733564


hugs

[RobynD]

Work closely with your doc to maximize results and minimize risks. Most medications present some risk to the body's filters, but there are many ways to mitigate the risk and regular blood work usually identifies an issue well in advance.

[Tessa James]

I am a MTF but not on assisted drugs yet.

I jave heard on ->-bleeped-<- and here and there in conjecture that taking these pills will cause  damage to liver and kidneys? any truth to this? how do I do this and protect my organs, yet I want the fastest transition results possible.

Hey m.m,

I was once in a hurry too after waiting far too long to transition.  I get that!  I would anticipate that you will typically have a session with your health care provider or endocrinologist where "informed consent" happens.  If you meet their criteria to start HRT they should describe the expectations, risks and alternatives.  Many of us have signed lengthy disclosure statements indicating we know what we are getting in to.  All drugs, including simple aspirin, may result in adverse, and unwanted side effects or complications.  You and your care team must decide if the benefits outweigh the risks.

Your individual health profile is a big part of that.  Your age and any health problems are part of how you may respond to treatment.  These days we have fantastic access to information about the drugs commonly used for HRT.  They have been around for ages and are well known.  Less is known about the longer term impacts on people like us who transition as these drugs were first used for other indications.  It seems more research is happening as we gain more visibility.  We like to remind ourselves that Your Individual Mileage May Vary and what you read here or on ->-bleeped-<- most often reflects an individuals anecdotal experience not a yard stick for others.

Good luck and push on friend

[KayXo]

there is one minor exception which Cyproterone Acetate - AKA Androcur - which is slightly hepatoxic

This is especially true at higher dosages recommended for pedophiles, for instance and prostate cancer patients. At doses usually taken by us, the risk is usually very low. This is important to mention.

One must also consider that bio-identical hormones are identical (same molecule) as those sex hormones produced naturally by the human body so are relatively safe and IMO, should be not be considered "drugs" which to me are molecules newly formed by man and are not native to the human body. Anti-androgens, birth control pills, premarin can present more adverse effects and the last two are usually avoided by doctors who treat transsexual women. 

Aspirin can perhaps prevent clotting but it also can cause ulcer in the long-term. It's important to weigh benefits vs risks. Bio-identical estrogen is relatively safe in that respect, especially if taken non-orally while others either don't affect clotting at all or do affect it and should be avoided (birth control pills, premarin, provera).

Please take the time to get thoroughly informed in the matter, don't blindly accept things you read, examine the science behind it and find a doctor who is well-versed in the subject. Good luck.

[Girl Beyond Doubt]

HRT since 2013.
CPA and bioidentical E.
SRS in 2014, only bioidentical E and bioidentical P after that.
Both my kidneys (all of them) and my liver are still there.
That is what my doctors say.

Don't believe what I say.

This is the internet.

I might be just another troll.

Sorry.

[Rachel]

Where I go they treat thousands of trans and we are just fine from HRT, doctor monitored.

I have read several posts elsewhere (not on Susan's) when I was researching HRT that were dangerous. These people were self medicating and were not under a doctors care.

[suzifrommd]

My doctor has been treating trans woman for decades. He's treated hundreds. He says he's never seen a case of liver damage.

[Sharon Anne McC]

*
My organs are doing well having been on ERT more than 35 years - full dose and now maintenance low dose.  Neither dosage levels have caused organ damage.  My six month periodic blood draws and endocrinologist exams follow my health status.

In fact, I nearly lost my liver due to injuries sustained in a car crash (1999).  My liver did not incur any further damage due to ERT; it is fully recovered.

I apply my generic dose under my tongue for direct absorption into the bloodstream.  Most any form of pill will easily dissolve under your tongue, you need no special formula.

It is doubtfull that my prior experiences are possible nowadays.  My internists and I were both new.  My early dosage was quite high.  I eventually learned that I was experiencing female 'morning sickness'.

My female co-workers were confused at my symptoms when I was still presenting as male.  When I was female full-time, my co-workers at temp assignments asked me about my pregnancy.  I could not 'tell'; they would not know since my assignments were usually only one or two months.

One amazing part of morning sickness was that they brought on night-time dreams of varying stages of pregnancy.

Of course those experiences eventually all went away when my physicians reduced my ERT.  So, if you get them, enjoy them while they last.
*

[AnonyMs]

I believe it can cause liver damage, if you overdose, so don't do that. Probably kidneys as well for all I know, so don't do that either. Hence the Doctor and monitoring.

I've actually had liver problems and a doctor tell me to stop HRT as it was probably making it worse, something women are more susceptible than men. I'm sure he was quite correct, but I discovered it was easier to be dead than stop HRT. Its fixed now, but I did something else.

[Jenna Marie]

It *can* cause liver damage, and this is why good medical monitoring is essential, but that's not a reason to panic or reject the idea of HRT.

I'm an odd case in that I actually did show signs of liver damage in the 3-month checkup after I began HRT (and it was on a very low dose by the safest possible delivery method, too). However, that's WHY my endo had that checkup, and all that really happened is that she called back and asked me to discontinue HRT until my liver showed that it was recovering. It sucked and I hated the time off, but it really didn't take very long, and then I restarted on half the original dose and was fine. If you're being properly cared for by a doctor - and *most* doctors can interpret a liver function test, so not necessarily an endo for that part - they will catch it early and you won't have any significant effects besides disappointment and annoyance.

[Deborah]

My doctor has been treating trans woman for decades. He's treated hundreds. He says he's never seen a case of liver damage.

My ends said the same thing.  I asked about liver damage and she said it wasn't an issue and that she had never seen it happen.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Catherine Sarah]

Hi Megan,

I am a MTF but not on assisted drugs yet.

I jave heard on ->-bleeped-<- and here and there in conjecture that taking these pills will cause  damage to liver and kidneys? any truth to this? how do I do this and protect my organs, yet I want the fastest transition results possible.

1) Find an Endocrinologist who knows what she/he's talking about.

2) Transition is a life long journey. There are no shortcuts. The physical effects take years, the psychological changes never end. Any other expectations are unrealistic.

Speak to you as soon as I feed the guinea pigs.

Huggs
Catherine

[KayXo]

I've been on low and quite high dosages of bio-identical hormones, orally and non-orally for more than 10 yrs. No sign of any damage, tests are clean.

Please also keep in mind that half the population (ciswomen) produce higher levels of estradiol and progesterone throughout much of their lifetime. I don't see half of our population dwindling due to liver/kidney failure; this usually occurs in older people, whether male or female, due to the aging process and perhaps drop in sex hormones as well. As long as we take the same hormones (bio-identical) and especially in the same way women get them, DIRECTLY into their blood stream, we can go to bed at night without worry. My 2 cents...just makes sense.