Being Christian and Transsexual

[stephaniec]

Being Christian and Transsexual

https://ts4jc.wordpress.com/2015/11/15/lazy-religion-harmful-to-the-transgender-community-harmful-throughout-history/

wordpress/Posted  by ts4jc in About Me, General Christian issues, The Bible on transsexualism   11/15/2015

"I sometimes hear negative comments about Christians who interpret the Bible literally.  My reply takes them by surprise at first until I explain.  The problem is not belief that the Bible is literally true.  It's that those Christians who disparage the transgender community don't read the Bible carefully enough and apply all of it as it is written."

[suzifrommd]

Indeed, there are passages in the Jewish and in the Christian bible that make it clear that it is just fine to be a eunuch - the biblical era word for a MAAB who has given up their masculinity. For example Isaiah 56:4-5 and Matthew 19:12.

[Aviya]

I won't say that I've anything completely settled in my heart. I was reading something John Piper wrote and I can  appreciate his position.

You can read here if you like: <Link Removed due to TOS 9>

Interestingly enough I was reading through Daniel this morning about how the Lord changed the mind of Nebuchadnezzar form that of a man to that of a beast and then back again. Whats that trans-species-ism?

[Asche]

I won't say that I've anything completely settled in my heart. I was reading something John Piper wrote and I can  appreciate his position.

You can read here if you like: <Link Removed due to TOS 9>

I think that article needs a trigger warning for transphobia:

I managed to get as far as where he characterizes our dysphoria and transgender feelings as "disordered desires that need to be subdued" before I stopped reading.  Actually, I skipped to the end and saw "look to the day when this light and momentary affliction of 80 or 90 years will be over and then everlasting joy and perfect wholeness."

IOW, God made us transgendered so we would spend our "80 or 90 years" in unrelieved torment.

I'm having trouble thinking of an honest response to this that wouldn't violate the TOS.  Let us just say that if this is what Mr. Piper considers divine love, I'll take divine hatred, thank you.  It can't be any worse, and at least I won't be cooperating in God's abuse of me.

[Deborah]

This is from that article and it sounds great, except it leaves out an important point.  The two spies were in Jericho to start with to enable the Israelites to carry out God's order to kill every human being in that town.  According to Christianity, this God who gave that order was Jesus himself.  God of unconditional love?   LOL

"What if legalism had stopped the two men sent by Joshua to spy on Jericho from lodging with a prostitute.  Then those men would not have received protection from Rahab, they would have been captured by the people of that land and another generation of the children of Israel probably would have been discouraged from entering the Promised Land."


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[Aviya]

I think that article needs a trigger warning for transphobia:

What is transphobia?

[Deborah]

Literally it means fear of trans people.  In practice it describes the attitude displayed by many that includes such verbal or written gems as disrespect, rejection, ridicule and dehumanization of trans people.  Accompanying this is a dogged embrace of a dogma, often but not always religious, that rejects the current medical and scientific findings on causes and treatment of transsexuality and instead assigns the cause to sexual perversion, pedophilia, communism, hatred of America, liberal conspiracies, or demon possession.  These dogmas are particularly resistant to counter argument because they rely only on the vivid imagination of paranoid and fearful minds and have absolutely no foundation in either logic or reality.    These beliefs appear to lower the intellectual immune system of such people and leave them vulnerable to a wide variety of other absurd conspiracy theories.

That is my wiki entry for today.


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[MaryXYX]

My testimony is that I had lost my relationship with God while I wasn't being honest about who I am, and I regained it when I came out.  Now I am one of the most active women in my church and co-treasurer.  The congregation know my history, although I think some have forgotten.  There are churches like this, and the Christian Transgender Facebook group is active and knows where they are.

[Leslie36369]

I personally am an atheist and find the vast majority of religious rhetoric disgusting and borderline insane, however I find this very interesting as my mother who is Southern Baptist and my biggest supporter is conflicted over certain issues at times due to her faith. May have to let her read this thread.

I converted to Catholicism when I was 23 and miss believing in something. The hate is what pushed me out of the church, and a few years later it was easier for me to see through it.  I would love to be accepted into the church again, just for the peace I had when I went. I don't know if I will ever actually believe it again. At least not in the way they want me to believe. Hopefully, this will not offend anyone. THe way that I wrote was not meant to disparage any religions validity. All just my personal opinions.

[Alycya]

All religions are obsessed by sex, and most religions are male oriented. Written or not that is a fact.

I, personally, don't think there is any "God" up there in the sky - BTW, even if we suppose the existence of a God, well this Being would be the most intelligent and loving Being ever.

Therefore, how could this Immense Being so stupid to mind if some of His\Her* creature feels more happy changing his\her own gender?

It's said that "God is Love", and Ultimate Intelligence, Comprehension and Compassion... how could such a (supposed) Being condemn someone who is trying to live a better, happier and healty life?

Only <deleted> humans beings do that - surely no God (existant or supposed) would ever condemn transition.

Just my two cents about.

Aly

* God itself it's supposed to be beyond gender, or he\she would not be a Whole.

Mod edit: if you use that highly offensive and insensitive word again you will be placed on moderation

[sarahjayn77]

Hi, I'm Sarah, and I haven't posted around here before, just lurked in the background reading everyone's discussions. I'm from Australia and Transgender Rights has just become a big thing over here because the government has introduced anti-bullying educational elements into the school system and anti-LGBT groups are up in arms about it, provoking lots of talk over here. Anyhow, I'm what you'd call a closet transgender - I haven't come out yet, and only doctors and therapists know about me, everyone else just thinks I'm a guy who doesn't cut his hair short enough and has a tendency for knitwear and necklaces, and agrees too much with the women when discussions or arguments take place, etc...

Anyway, I am a Christian, and I find encouragement in numerous places in the Bible. In the New Testament, the Apostle Paul had to write to a church where there were some disputes and problems going on. Could a Eunuch be a Christian? Could a slave be a Christian? Were men more important than women? And so on. Paul's response was:

"There are not Jews or Gentiles (people who are not Jews), not slaves nor free, nor are there male or female - you are all one together in Christ Jesus."

Basically, according to the Apostle, where you were born, whether you were a slave or a free person, or whether you were male or female, is not relevant at all as to whether someone is or is not a christian. So if it isn't relavant - if being male or female doesn't matter as to whether I am saved by God, then why should other Christians care so much about it? Anyway, verses like that help me to feel like gender is not a factor when it comes to faith.

The other thing I wanted to mention, is that Christians will often say that Eunuchs were just slaves who were castrated against their will, not men who had their genitals willingly removed. However, this is not what the bible or history books tell us. Jesus mentions three eunuchs in an example - people who were castrated against their will by others, people who for religious reasons castrated themselves, and people who were born like castrated people, and He said they were all acceptable to God.

And the first non-Jewish Christian conversion written about in the Bible was a Eunuch Official. In those days, various men (such as those with no interest in sex) could have themselves castrated by choice to take on positions of power. Willing Eunuchs were considered incorruptible because they could not be seduced and didn't care about sex with women.

[AbbyKat]

It's all so silly to me.  My religion is far older than the Abrahamic faiths and my goddess made transsexuals through her divine will and Her clergy were filled with trans folk.  So when I hear "old fashioned conservative logic", I chuckle because my beliefs are as old fashioned and conservative as you can get, by definition.  They are the new kids on the block as far as I'm concerned, spreading unique brands of hatred and exclusionary philosophy.

And even if none of that were a part of my life, I still am not able to have respect for any belief that commands their followers to judge others just for existing.  Zero respect.  If that's violating TOS for "bashing religion", then so be it but please cancel my account if that's enforced.  They deserve no respect from any human who has love and compassion in their heart. 

I must add, though, that I do appreciate some of the more liberal denominations who actually try to fit into society and act less dark aged, like Episcopalians and whatnot. 

[JLT1]

I won't say that I've anything completely settled in my heart. I was reading something John Piper wrote and I can  appreciate his position.

You can read here if you like: <removed link due to TOS 9>

Interestingly enough I was reading through Daniel this morning about how the Lord changed the mind of Nebuchadnezzar form that of a man to that of a beast and then back again.3 Whats that trans-species-ism?

Not one scripture verse to back up his opinion.  None.
I can talk about what God says.  I don't care about this opinion....because it does not stand up to scripture.

This sounds just like the writing of the pharisees circa 300 BC.  BS mixed in with good sounding words.

Jen

[MaryXYX]

There was an interesting idea presented at one of the LGBT History Month events here.  One of the speakers, Revd. Dr. Susan Durber (Theology Coordinator for Christian Aid), was putting the Genesis creation story in context.  She said that the "religions far older than the Abrahamic faiths" as mentioned above tended to have one god who created everything good - including men, and another god or goddess who created everything not-so-good - including women.  This is the point of "God created male and female in 'his' image and it was all good".

[jossam]

We refer to God as "he" just for the sake of convenience and because in Hebrew there's no neutral pronoun, but God is agender, neither male nor female, God is beyond gender and everything that goes with it. There's nothing in the Bible that says being transgender is wrong.

[MaryXYX]

There are a number of references to eunuchs in the Bible.  Many are just factual mentions, but some are interesting.  Isaiah 56 3-5 is a good one.  Matthew 19:12 is a bit tricky.  Acts 8 where an Ethiopian eunuch is selected to be the first convert from his country.

The minister of my church introduced me to "Expansive Language".  When we read a psalm or sing a hymn God is "He" in one line and "She" in the next.

[phdinfunk]

Recently I read that Pat Robertson, of all people, has said he thinks transgender is okay.  LOL, maybe 20 years late for me, but I'm very glad of these types of advances.  I gotta say, being a kid and transgender right now stands a chance of being nothing like it was when I was little.

http://www.advocate.com/politics/transgender/2013/07/29/watch-pat-robertson-says-being-transgender-not-sin

But thanks to those above who mentioned Eunuchs.  As much as I dislike it, I think I could use that as an argument just to shut up any person in my family who wants to give me what for about, "God's opinion of transgender people."  Which, frankly, from the standpoint they're coming at it, it's clear that they're over-reaching quite a lot.

But since the Chicago Statement of Infallibility, and the debate on biblical inerrancy in the 70s and 80s, the Baptists have basically over-reached on a lot of stuff.

LOL, I've read and studied a LOT on this.  I used to be a youth group leader, all the while fearing that I was in terrible sin because I couldn't "overcome" the "sin of being transgendered."  Now, I look back on those decades and think it's absurd that people even bothered that much about it.

The main thing that separates all these points from "sin" is that if anyone looks clearly at gender or sexual identity or sexual preference, it's very clear that it isn't a choice.  That plenty of us (most of us) due to expediency have tried very hard, often with the deepest of prayers and supplications and submission to God to make the choice to go ahead and be what we aren't, according to what is socially easier, I think is pretty strong evidence of that.

BUT, this goes against the canon and biblical inerrancy, since homosexuality would also fall into this category.  I gather that Paul disliked homosexuality very strongly.  If that one is not a choice, then the entire definition of sin falls through the floor, or the canon has issues.

Still, the thing about Eunuchs.  That would be very hard for anyone to argue against, I would think.  Especially since it's words of Jesus himself, not even Paul or those other guys.  I'll use it next time my cousin the minister tries to bother me.

--Lyra

[Devlyn]

That's from 2013. Here's a two year update on Pat Robertson.

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/pat-robertson-transgender-girl-just-wants-peep-locker-room

Oh, then there's this from last month.

http://www.advocate.com/transgender/2016/2/24/watch-pat-robertson-goes-nuclear-new-transphobic-rant

[phdinfunk]

Hah, I see.  Well, thanks for sharing that.  I guess it's hard for a leopard to change its spots.  Does he still have two transwomen working as secretaries or did her fire them or what?

I guess, basically, his constituency doesn't like that.  I mean, politics....

--L

[Vanessa_Glidewell]

The Christian bible says nothing about trans* people. There's one place that says cross dressing is a sin, but cross dressing and being trans* is so very much different