Trans vs. Gender-Fluid...the question remains...

[2legit]

Greetings & happy holidays!

I'm hoping there are others out there in similar positions who can shed some light. I'm now questioning my gender status & not sure where I sit, as I feel like there could be variations of gender fluidity.

I started having gender dysphoria at age 8 but in time it went behind the scenes. The dysphoria would come in waves, always there but occasionally a tsunami of feelings would hit & I would question my born female gender. After an intense wave of dyspohoria about 1 1/2 years ago I found the transgender community & felt at home, esp with the FTM meaning finally understood & personally accepted.

I was gung ho about getting top surgery & eventually starting T. Then as time past my dysphoria settled down a lot, it was always there, but more like a sleeping tiger. I think this was the result of finally understanding more of who I am. If I had a magic wand I would be a cis guy in a heartbeat, but weighing all the pros/cons/fears etc & adding in the decreasing dysphoria, I'm now questioning my gender fluidity.

At this point, my concerns with starting T outweigh my dysphoria, which is why I decided to hold off on T, for now.

I will proceed w/ top surgery although I don't pass at all as a male, regardless of how I dress etc. So I will be living still as a female w/out tatas but identifying personally as a male. Seems this will make my life quite challenging too at times. Although, my dysphoria is more centered around the breasts & penis envy.

Anyone else go through similar experiences, where you started to question if you're gender fluid & not trans?

[KathyLauren]

Yes, I am in a similar (but MTF) position. 

After being uncomfortable with who I was for years, though not knowing the term 'gender dysphoria', I finally learned what transgender was about and that I fit on the spectrum somewhere.  I know I am not at the 'cis' end of the spectrum, but I am not on the 'always knew and need SRS right away' end either.  I'm somewhere in between.

My dysphoria comes and goes.  If I hang out here on Susan's a lot, I start to feel like I fit in, and the dysphoria drops off.  When the dysphoria drops, I start to wonder if I really need to do anything about it, and if I really am trans.  Then it comes back, and the cycle repeats.

So, where I am going to end up, I don't know.  It is something I need to explore with a gender therapist.  My goals for now are to come out to my wife; see if my marriage will survive; start therapy; plan my financial future if the marriage does not survive. 

After that, all bets are off.  Maybe I'll cross-dress in private, maybe in public, maybe part-time, maybe full-time.  Maybe HRT, maybe SRS.  I don't know!

[Kimberley Beauregard]

I'm in a similar position to Kathy. I want to trial low-dose HRT and continue it if I can decide its right for me. I'm going to do this under supervision, but I need to try living more of my life as Kimberley first (which isn't so easy with my current situation). I still have other glaring issues to deal with, so I'm going into this with the full understanding that my gender isn't the source of all my issues and talking things out with a gender therapist might be enough to help me in the short to mid term. I've got the ball rolling with Sheffield GIC, but I'll be waiting for a long time. I guess that time will give me the opportunity to think things over some more, which never hurts. Even transitioning to androgynous physically and socially is a major life decision.

[2legit]

Thanks Kimberley & Kathy for your input & stories. I also feel somewhere in-between, teetering onto both sides. I think a gender therapist is the best choice at this point, to help navigate these feelings. Best of luck to both of you

[DriftingCrow]

2legit -- yes, exactly as you wrote it. 

When I was younger, the only trans people I had ever heard of was trans women.  I thought there was no option for trans men.  I lived my life with a desire to be male, but thought I would just have to be butch forever.  Once I learned there was options for people like me to medically transition, I left my all-women's college (because i didn't want to transition and have people look at my resume and be like "wtf, that's a girl's school" and know my history from that), but was lost not knowing how to get to the next step.  I couldn't find the necessary resources, and also just figured only rich people could afford to transition, so I learned how to manage my feelings.  I could go back and forth between feeling very comfortable presenting as a female and then being uncomfortable with it and would present very butch again. 

Once I found more trans resources, and learned that medically transitioning was more affordable than I thought, I felt more gung-ho about transitioning.  I was also in the period of making a big life realization and change (non-trans related) and it felt appropriate to make this transition at the same time.  Now that I've "cooled off" some, I had more of a chance to learn about gender itself and other ways to identify and present.  Knowing that it was acceptable to be somewhere in between has released a lot of pressure I felt to have to conform with either being a social woman or a social man.  Having a release from the social pressure has lead me to question if I really need to change my body.  Yes, a magic wand to change everything overnight would be great, but I think I can live a happy, healthy, and productive live in the body I was given. 

Also, since becoming more aware of the trans community and knowing trans people who have transitioned, I do know that medically transitioning isn't always the cure we may seek.  While many people are happy transitioning, it doesn't change any baggage that goes along with it.  Since medically and socially transitioning is a huge step that affects family and social life, work life, finances and can come with serious health consequences, I'd rather try to work on the baggage first.  Working on the baggage first, I have found much more happiness than I thought I would find, and I am happy being somewhere in the middle.  I know people would say that I am "not trans", others would say that I am, and honestly, I am not sure if I am gender fluid, gender non-conforming, or trans.  I actually get really confused with all these labels, since they seem to change so much.  Overall, I really don't care what umbrella I fall under or what people label me as.

[imissmymama]

i think being "gender fluid" sounds good in theory, but in reality, it creates alot of anxiety to live out such an identity in this society.

[DriftingCrow]

i think being "gender fluid" sounds good in theory, but in reality, it creates alot of anxiety to live out such an identity in this society.

It would depend on the person.  If it creates anxiety for you to live outside of what society says your choices are, then you're probably not gender fluid. 

[VeronicaLynn]

It would depend on the person.  If it creates anxiety for you to live outside of what society says your choices are, then you're probably not gender fluid.

For me, it created a bit of anxiety to mentally think of myself as genderfluid, I'm simply Veronica all the time. That being said, I still present genderfluid. What else is a non-transitioning, non-passing girl like me to do?

I'm having fun with it, I generally look better in shirts designed for men so that's mostly what I wear, and I look great and feel totally comfortable in women's jeans or shorts. I don't push it much further than that. With that plus the long hair, the perfume, and the light makeup, people just aren't paying attention if they read me as a guy, and yet they pretty much all do.

[Bunter]

I know this is individual, but how do you all define gender-fluid?

As being in-between on the same point of the spectrum all the time, or as moving around within the spectrum over time or in intervals, or switching between male and female, or switching between being more or less trans?

I'd like to talk more about the specifics of genderfluid, and what that means in practice for different individuals.

[Devlyn]

I know this is individual, but how do you all define gender-fluid?

As being in-between on the same point of the spectrum all the time, or as moving around within the spectrum over time or in intervals, or switching between male and female, or switching between being more or less trans?

I'd like to talk more about the specifics of genderfluid, and what that means in practice for different individuals.

Defining it can be tricky. I feel female most days, and occasionally I feel male. I wear female clothes all the time now, and I'm ususally taken as female until I speak, then people correct themselves based on my male voice. I try to have fun with it and tell them I haven't worked it out yet myself.

I think I'm somewhere between genderfluid and bi-gender.

i think being "gender fluid" sounds good in theory, but in reality, it creates alot of anxiety to live out such an identity in this society.

It would depend on the person.  If it creates anxiety for you to live outside of what society says your choices are, then you're probably not gender fluid. 

Agreed, you shouldn't be living to satisfy society's expectations. If you do, you blow your only chance to be you. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[DriftingCrow]

I know this is individual, but how do you all define gender-fluid?

As being in-between on the same point of the spectrum all the time, or as moving around within the spectrum over time or in intervals, or switching between male and female, or switching between being more or less trans?

I'd like to talk more about the specifics of genderfluid, and what that means in practice for different individuals.

I don't think there's exactly a single, defined, clear-cut definition. 

Here's some from a banned website:
Bigender - A person who feels they have a distinct female and male gender identity that fluctuates between each other or both at the same time.
Genderfluid - A person who fluctuates between more than one gender, or between having a gender and not having one.   
Genderqueer - A term that may be used to describe those with non-normative gender, either as an umbrella term or a stand-alone identity.

Kind of some overlap between those. 

[VeronicaLynn]

Defining it can be tricky. I feel female most days, and occasionally I feel male. I wear female clothes all the time now, and I'm ususally taken as female until I speak, then people correct themselves based on my male voice. I try to have fun with it and tell them I haven't worked it out yet myself.

I think I'm somewhere between genderfluid and bi-gender.

The problem I have with these definitions is that they don't really take account that at least in current societies, you are going to be assigned one of two genders at birth, and you are going to have a different relationship with it than the other. In a way, I sort of am bigender, in that I recognize and even like some characteristics I have that are typically male, but I also don't really keep them distinct, and I definitely don't keep my presentation distinct one or the other and may even prefer it to be a mix, though a mix I think I look good in.

In any case, while I may have some fluctuations, I don't really like them. They really mess with my confidence. At this point, I'd rather just see myself as a trans woman that sometimes wears men's clothes, or usually a mix, and almost always all women's when I'm home alone. While there isn't much choice in having these thoughts and feelings, there is some choice in how you present. Right now I choose to present to the world mostly androgynous, except when I'd rather not deal with it and present more masculine, or when I'm feeling daring and go way more feminine than I ordinarily do.

[Bunter]

Does anyone know this: Fluctuating between feeling *physically* male or female? This happens when my hormonal status has peaks in one direction or the other, and it kind of influences how I feel in general.

[Deborah]

I don't know what it means to feel male or female.  I do know what it means to feel not like myself before HRT and feel like myself after HRT.  Sometimes I think we get too caught up in inventing complicated concepts to explain things beyond explanation.


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[Tessa James]

I don't know what it means to feel male or female.  I do know what it means to feel not like myself before HRT and feel like myself after HRT.  Sometimes I think we get too caught up in inventing complicated concepts to explain things beyond explanation.


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Agreed.  I don't see our self definition as an either/or, or one versus another choice.  Actually I find the labels arbitrary and really unhelpful in living an authentic life or figuring out gender identity.  We need some way to talk about ourselves but precise pigeon holing gets in the way of exploration and adapting to change IMO.  People have been individually and culturally gender non conforming since forever.  The current labels have been around less than a single lifetime and will likely change again.

The medicalization of our status and treatment reinforces the labels and provides for an identity some may need for a sense of belonging and community but is it ever as simple as male and female?

Your personal journey could very well include variations of gender fluidity with some real cool ways to present yourself.

[Bunter]

I feel physically very different depending on what hormone is dominant in my system. That's what I would call feeling male or feeling female. Did you peeps not observe changes with HRT or other hormonal fluctuations?
I'm asking because I think some people might fluctuate with their physical changes for example a menstrual cycle or the amount of hormones they take, and so on. And that might explain cyclical shift in gender identity.

[Tessa James]

Cyclical shifts in gender identity might best be explained by those that experience the phenomena?  I have friends on HRT and others who are cisgender that feel some cyclical impacts of menstruation or dosage changes/regimens.  How significant that is to gender identity???  My gender identity has flexed enough to cope with what I previously could not change but revels in the current congruence of expression.  Such individual journeys are the stuff of diversity.

My personal list of observed changes after starting HRT is a way long essay that is all over my previous posts

[Bunter]

I was asking because it might give some answers about genderfluidity for some people. and because it isn't very often discussed.

[Late bloomer]

Ain't nothing easy about it for me, either.  I'm androgynous, would rather have been born a female, but no, I was born in a male body (well, almost male.. wide hips and shapely-curvy leg and no muscle mass like guys have).  I have been going to therapy, it helps tremendously.  Dr. is perplexed why I don't want to transition or dress up.  I told her I would personally would only be happy if I was a natural-born female.  Surgery would only be a tease for me.
Why?
I have discovered there is a lady inside of me, she has a name, and she's been working hard my entire life to protect me from harm.  When my dysphoria is turning me into a sobbing mess (meltdown), I can call her and she comforts me.  I have seen her now in my dreams, me if I was born into a female body. 
I'm not going to do anything that would cause me to lose her. 
That's my take on why I won't do the surgery.  Sure, some estrogen to make my boobs grow bigger (the Spironolactone for a medical condition got me going), but nix on the knife.

[Tessa James]

Ain't nothing easy about it for me, either.  I'm androgynous, would rather have been born a female, but no, I was born in a male body (well, almost male.. wide hips and shapely-curvy leg and no muscle mass like guys have).  I have been going to therapy, it helps tremendously.  Dr. is perplexed why I don't want to transition or dress up.  I told her I would personally would only be happy if I was a natural-born female.  Surgery would only be a tease for me.
Why?
I have discovered there is a lady inside of me, she has a name, and she's been working hard my entire life to protect me from harm.  When my dysphoria is turning me into a sobbing mess (meltdown), I can call her and she comforts me.  I have seen her now in my dreams, me if I was born into a female body. 
I'm not going to do anything that would cause me to lose her. 
That's my take on why I won't do the surgery.  Sure, some estrogen to make my boobs grow bigger (the Spironolactone for a medical condition got me going), but nix on the knife.

There is no one way to be transgender or work through this easily that i know of.  Perhaps like you, I was aware of the girl within me that was reduced to a mere shadow by repression and denial.  Transition for me has been without goals other than to feel better.  i was relatively sure I would not want/need surgery.  Good thing i nave seasoning for I am eating those words today in preparation for my surgical consult next week.   Just suggesting we engage with an open mind about our unique journeys as this is a long and winding road...