Thoughts on the Danish Girl

[J-Sada]

J-Sada, I'm reading the book but strangely the one my wife wants to read is the book all this was based on.  I downloaded it last night and it's only available on Kindle.  It was originally titled Man Into Woman but now is Lili: A Portrait of the First Sex Change.  It's from Lili's memoirs, letters and other resources at the time.

I know that it is merely inspired by the lives of the real people it's based on, and doesn't exactly claim to be historically accurate...

Yes, it should be noted that the book the movie is based upon by David Ebershoff has many historical inaccuracies. He freely admits that he completely made up many details, including most of the characters other than Lili and Gerda. But there is a good amount of truth to it, I think. After all, it is Hollywood. And it certainly does a good job of capturing what many transpeople feel, despite it's imperfections.

I'd definitely like to read the original book myself.

[Naomi71]

Shouldn't "Man into woman" be available somewehere in the public domain? It was published in 1933! I really want to read it.

Also, the doctor in this movie seemed very similar to the 1930's doctor we saw in the second season of the "Transparent" series. Coincidental, or would he have been based on Elbe's doctor, Kurt Warnekros?

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Warnekros

[BeverlyAnn]

Shouldn't "Man into woman" be available somewehere in the public domain? It was published in 1933! I really want to read it.

Naomi, Man Into Woman is available electronically for Kindle or Nook but is long out of print in book form.  It's new title is Lili: A Portrait of the First Sex Change by Niels Hoyer.

[CaptFido87]

so I saw the movie today. Wow. It was great and a wonderful film. Both main characters are worthy of a nomination in my opinion. They did seem to cut some known stuff out, but got the main points across. The movie makes reference that Lili dies shortly after the second operation, where it was more like the 4th by the time she was done in real life. They never officially say that she's on hormones, but they hint at it, where she was taking pills every couple of hours with food. Thought that was neat. I'm sure she wasn't the first person to take female hormones, but she's probably closer to the beginning of the list.

The movie does make you every bit emotional and I admit it was hard to keep the tears back. Well worth the viewing if you're trans, or just love great film making. It's going to be on my mind for a bit as I continue to question my sexuality and gender even more than I already do.

[Elsa Delyth]

She wasn't on hormones, they weren't aware of them at the time. It wasn't until after that they began experimenting with feminizing and masculinizing rats by transplanting ovaries and testis into them at a very early age, and eventually isolating the hormones themselves. The work on this only really began in the 1930s, and was pretty much developed by the 1940s, so Lili would have be just a bit too early, which is why they attempted the ovary transplant in the first place.

[AmandaDanielle]

Naomi, Man Into Woman is available electronically for Kindle or Nook but is long out of print in book form.  It's new title is Lili: A Portrait of the First Sex Change by Niels Hoyer.

Started reading this tonight... a great read so far and I am only on chapter 5!! Thanks for sharing!!

[roseyfox]

I actually did not like the movie that much. I feel they played her point of view of being someone completely different really irritating. I mean it does not matter if i am a guy or a girl i am the same person. It was just a headache for me hearing her say that the other side of me has died.
  Esspecially considering when i transtioned i don't want my family to look at it has the old me is gone, because i am the same person. So no i was not a big fan of the story but im hoping my name is rey will show the other side.

[Peep]

I actually did not like the movie that much. I feel they played her point of view of being someone completely different really irritating. I mean it does not matter if i am a guy or a girl i am the same person. It was just a headache for me hearing her say that the other side of me has died.
  Esspecially considering when i transtioned i don't want my family to look at it has the old me is gone, because i am the same person. So no i was not a big fan of the story but im hoping my name is rey will show the other side.

it's a pretty cliched narrative but some people do feel that way... or are made to feel that way by people around them...

i think i might read the books rather than see the film if it's not accurate

[Debra]

might go see this next week with my bestie

[Ltl89]

I actually did not like the movie that much. I feel they played her point of view of being someone completely different really irritating. I mean it does not matter if i am a guy or a girl i am the same person. It was just a headache for me hearing her say that the other side of me has died.
  Esspecially considering when i transtioned i don't want my family to look at it has the old me is gone, because i am the same person. So no i was not a big fan of the story but im hoping my name is rey will show the other side.

I haven't seen the movie but I did read the book and agree with what you're saying.  Part of the way it was presented made it sound like a schizophrenic situation which isn't accurate; however, it is true that many of us have double lives during transition so I get why it's done like that.  Anyway, I do think that to many of our loved ones inevitability will see it as losing someone even if we don't feel that way.  In that sense the book really helped me come to understand the perspective of those witnessing the transition cause for many they do see the old us as dying.  I know I've seen my mother in tears numerous times begging me not to take her son away.  Objectively its not what's happening, but it's a whole different perspective when you aren't the one transitioning. So even though I share your view, ultimately I'm glad they showed it this way cause it kind of helped me understand my families struggles and I think that's one of the most important aspects of the book.  Watching Gerda accept the loss of her husband probably hits home for a lot of people.

Anyway, I haven't seen the movie, but I have high hopes.  Hopefully they won't drop the ball like almost every other trans movie.

[Serverlan]

The film was very... nice.

[kittenpower]

I actually did not like the movie that much. I feel they played her point of view of being someone completely different really irritating. I mean it does not matter if i am a guy or a girl i am the same person. It was just a headache for me hearing her say that the other side of me has died.
  Esspecially considering when i transtioned i don't want my family to look at it has the old me is gone, because i am the same person. So no i was not a big fan of the story but im hoping my name is rey will show the other side.

I've seen that a lot in the trans community over the years, and I never felt that way; the way I think about is me pre transition and me post transition, but I've always been the same person.

[Jessica Merriman]

She had the operations and still was a guy who just simply cross dressed.

WTF?? 

[stephaniec]

just saw the movie. I thought it was a good portrayal of someone dealing with Dysphoria and the period when she lived seemed pretty accurate about the way she was treated by the doctors and the medical community. It's sad when relationships with others get twisted because you have this going on. She was lucky to have a wife that cared. He a good actor as was the girl that portrayed the wife. I don't think in this case it would of been more relevant to have a trams actor because what's his name is really good . given the time period no hormones were used so you wouldn't have the effects of hormones anyway.

[gennee]

I'm going to see the movie next week.

[CaptFido87]

She had the operations and still was a guy who just simply cross dressed.

WTF?? 

I kind of worded that wrong, my apologies. It was late when I wrote that. Didn't proof read it...

From what my understanding of her when I read about Lili for the first time, was that the operations for removal of the male genitals and the placement of the female ones happened while she still identified as a man. It more or less a test, I suppose. I've never read the book so I could be wrong about that. It was my understanding after the fact that the removal of the male parts lead her to really become trans. So that was my initial thought. To me it seemed like she more of a cross dresser than trans at the time. Now yes, I'm aware of the differences. CD's often dress femininely and act like woman, but don't want to be one; where as trans feels that they are a woman. My opinion, especially after seeing the film, kind of made it seem like this was the case. The film showed Lili (or Einor) often seeing doctors to understand what was happening to her. Being the early 1900s most people likely didn't even know the term transgender or its meaning, where as the "->-bleeped-<-" term I believe is in the bible. So to me it would seem like she a cross dresser at the time as she struggled to understand it all and be real. Though when she boards the train to see the doctors for the surgery, she mentions the she intends to kill Einor. This to me is when she really becomes Lili. This is when she becomes trans and accepts what she really is.

I hope maybe that explains my reasoning more so. I wasn't trying to say it in a bad way. it just came out that way.

[Jessica Merriman]

It was my understanding after the fact that the removal of the male parts lead her to really become trans.

NO, ->-bleeped-<- IS NOT in the bible. UGH!

Mod Edit- Bashing and attaching users in posts is against TOS 10, and 15.

[Melanie ♡]

I think Lili died in her late 40s after a couple of weeks of her 4th surgeries and inaccuracies was not there with her anymore, as she got remarried with an italian man (I read this wikipedia and an article), and I feel like the movie had a lot of inaccuracies but whatever, just the fact that they are using  cisgender man to play the role of a trans woman, and appropriating the struggle of a trans woman in finding happiness with herself, and turning her into a weirdo, it's just plain disgusting.

[Mariah]

 

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[Naomi71]

Naomi, Man Into Woman is available electronically for Kindle or Nook but is long out of print in book form.  It's new title is Lili: A Portrait of the First Sex Change by Niels Hoyer.

Thank you for the recommendation!