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Caught in a tornado of nowhere

Started by Amoré, December 30, 2015, 01:05:20 AM

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Wednesday

Well, I'm not sure If I understood completely the whole thing, but as far as I can see it looks like she's really considering the possibility that sooner or later dysphoria is going to get out of her hands (and out of your hands) and you gonna be completing your transition somewhere in the future.

If she's educated about gender dysphoria she may know that usually sooner or later in most cases people affected by gd need to transition due to the dysphoria becoming unbearable with time. This may look like to her as a risk too high to be worth taken.

Also It is feasible that her perception about you changed in the past year due to your steps toward coping with the gd (hormones, coming out, etc). You can't blame her for that, and you have to keep in mind that this new idea she has about you may never gonna change for the better.

Sounds like she gave it a try, saw how it was, scared the hell of out of her, and now she's really considering that in the end the full transition is going to happen sooner or later and that she doesn't want it. Maybe she has not a plan yet. Also she must be thinking that time can play against her favor.

As others said, If I were you I'll be looking for a lawyer just to be prepared for the worst. Also I think its nice idea to cool yourself down. Usually best decisions come from a cold approach.

Best of luck.
"Witches were a bit like cats" - Terry Pratchett
  •  

Amoré

#41
Quote from: Wednesday on January 01, 2016, 06:45:22 AM
Well, I'm not sure If I understood completely the whole thing, but as far as I can see it looks like she's really considering the possibility that sooner or later dysphoria is going to get out of her hands (and out of your hands) and you gonna be completing your transition somewhere in the future.

If she's educated about gender dysphoria she may know that usually sooner or later in most cases people affected by gd need to transition due to the dysphoria becoming unbearable with time. This may look like to her as a risk too high to be worth taken.

Also It is feasible that her perception about you changed in the past year due to your steps toward coping with the gd (hormones, coming out, etc). You can't blame her for that, and you have to keep in mind that this new idea she has about you may never gonna change for the better.

Sounds like she gave it a try, saw how it was, scared the hell of out of her, and now she's really considering that in the end the full transition is going to happen sooner or later and that she doesn't want it. Maybe she has not a plan yet. Also she must be thinking that time can play against her favor.

As others said, If I were you I'll be looking for a lawyer just to be prepared for the worst. Also I think its nice idea to cool yourself down. Usually best decisions come from a cold approach.

Best of luck.
hi Wednesday

She is educated well in dyshoria and she mentioned it that she is afraid of me transitioning or flipping out in the future.The thing is I also tried to prove to her and my family that I am transgender.My therapist also told her I am transgender and that is not going to change.So the problem is her view of me is I am a woman.
She also mentioned that she don't like the idea of knowing that I would have always wanted to be a woman.

I believe her perception changed in the last year seeing as I started hormones wanted to transition. I started to dress like a woman around her. It all I will agree altered her perception of who I am.

The main thing is I have to give up one thing for another. I can't have my cake and eat it too.

But in this case I am out of control of the whole divorce thing it is her choice and I will respect it and move on with my life then. I don't know if my actions altered the whole foundation of the marriage and relationship beyond repair.

I think of sorts I have my dysphoria under control and I understand it I won't disagree that it catches me of guard now and then.


Excuse me for living
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AnonyMs

Quote from: Amoré on January 01, 2016, 07:01:08 AM
I don't know if my actions altered the whole foundation of the marriage and relationship beyond repair.

I'd say you actions have uncovered the reality of your relationship. You never truly knew her before.

Its easy to see the best in people when everything's going well, but I think you see the truth when its not.
  •  

Amoré

Quote from: AnonyMs on January 01, 2016, 01:30:51 PM
I'd say you actions have uncovered the reality of your relationship. You never truly knew her before.

Its easy to see the best in people when everything's going well, but I think you see the truth when its not.

This can be true actually! When eveything was fine she was not this abusive. But when she could not control my gd she became very abusive and instead of fixing it she broke me down and made it worse for me to cope with it.

If this is the true her I just don't want to be with her and I am afraid that I we can get back together will she stop her abusive ways because she already learned to use them on me to manipulate me and stuff.

I tried my best to follow my new years resolution for the day and I think it went sort of okay I thought about transitioning a lot. The strange thing is I am battling to see myself as male. Especially with a new partner. This is the picture I have in my head and then I am like stop pause what was that? I don't really want to do the transition thing. I can try to change the picture but it is more a forced picture than a random thing poping into your head when you hear a song and get a picture in your head.

This was sort of okay I want to stay a man lets say it is a song about a love story and the guy is singing how he holds the girl my mind immediately puts me in the girl role without even thinking about it.

well the rest of the day was okay I confronted her about her abusive ways and she was shocked it looks if she really understands. I tried to focus on other things than my marriage and understand that I cannot control it. I think I did good.

Let me be honest I hurt like hell at this stage I am just doing what she is doing hiding it behind a mask so that she don't see it. I feel like I am dying inside but hopefully this feelings will pass. I am trying to focus on all the wonderful things of the year. If she divorce me transitioning. Maybe dating. I want to finish my degree in computer science. New work I don't know but the sadness of losing my family is clowding this whole picture. I guess it is over because we are living two seperated lives for five months now in different beds no hugs kisses intimacy. We are just like roommates or something that share a kid.

I am scared of losing it the day when I get my divorce letter so I thought maybe I should do the divorce work because I have clinical depression and that may be a major trigger that will disable me for days at least if I do the divorce I would be sort of in control of the whole thing and know she can't use it as n control mechanism on me. I would at least be able to say she did not chase me away I decided to end it.

This is the thing that I also saw she used divorce as a form of manipulation and then it got concrete and came and bit her in the arse. She did not want to tell her family we are getting divorced I lashed out the one day and told them all this sort of made it a thing

I don't know what is going to happen but maybe taking control out of her hands will give me some sort of peace and feel like I am controlling some aspect in my life. This also takes her main weapon out of her control


Excuse me for living
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Lyndsey

Hi Amore

My Heart goes out to you as this is a very difficult time in your life. No matter which way it goes there will be a lot of real hard times for both of you. Please try to keep your head up as hard as it may be. Think about it this way. there will be a time in your life that will be comfortable again as all the hard and bad will pass in time. Even If or when you and your wife split up over the years you will more than likely be able to communicate and even laugh about some of the crazy moments. Remember you have a precious little Daughter between you and that you will both have to be in her life. Don't break her.  :'( as she is part of you both. Let her learn to love you each without the two of you fighting or badmouthing one and other. Always say good thing about your other half and Ask your daughter if she has been having fun with you and her. Don't ask her about your wifes relationships as that is wrong also. let it go and pick up your life. Live for the future not the past. My Blessing go to all of you. Please try to be kind to each other and it will make everyone life happier. The words I have just spoken are from my Heart. :angel:

Big Hug's To You

Lyndsey Marie
Lyndsey Marie Burke- Started my journey February 2011 Full time on May 5th 2014 HRT June 6th 2014 Name change and on all records and court documents June 20th 2014 SCS October 20th 2015 with Doctor Marci Bowers in Burlingame California I'm a very Happy women and finally living what I should have been living my whole life. Expect the unexpected. I feel Blessed. Love, Live, Be Happy. Be safe.
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Louisa

Dear Amore, in his book, The Divided Self, the noted psychoanalyst/psychiatrist R. D. Laing describes a process that can happen in the mind (especially of intelligent people) which he terms abstracting. This abstracting then forms a loop which leads a person to go nowhere (while they are in the loop) and also, the process is alienating (i.e. a person ends up separated from their true senses and emotions for a while and/or are confused about them all, with no clarity about their meaning in terms of the action/s they should take).

The reason this abstracting process causes this, Laing describes, is because when we abstract emotions, scenarios, events, dreams, desires, etc, as abstractions they lack a certain 'solidity' and realness (sense wise), which are the very qualities needed for us to make confident decisions in the first place. However, this is not the end point, rather, when a persons thoughts have become overly-abstracted, it is very easy for a person's thoughts to flip-flop right into their opposite, and then back again, and then back the other way again, in an endless frustrating and demoralising loop. White is as good as black one moment and the next, black is as good as white, etc. He does explain what he thinks is the very simple way out of this catch 22 situation, but first, a simple example illustrating the above.

Let us say, a young person is feeling extremely confused about what career path to take in life, so much so that they are quite paralysed by the situation. Yet at the same time, they are quite obsessed with ascertaining their 'one and only true vocation' - i.e. despite their confusion, ascertaining their true-vocation is the single most important thing to them and an obsession they can't stop thinking about. So much so, that week after week, their mind picks up on a certain vocation and runs with it completely: air-stewardess one week, then business person, then lawyer, then business owner, then nurse, then airline pilot, etc, etc. The dynamic is that their mind is profoundly taken by an 'idea' that seems to fit, but frustratingly each time (after a number of days), it either flips into it's opposite of not wanting to follow that career path, or it flips into something else. Laing explains that the end result, is that after many months, of this abstracting and flip-flopping a person can feel very lost and unclear about what path to pursue - which in a way, is so ironic given their inner commitment and dedication to divining that information in the first place!

Note, that it's not that at core this isn't a process which all of experience as part of ascertaining our way forward, but rather the particular degree of abstraction that takes place in the person at this particular time. As above, abstraction is one of the foundation stones of intelligence, philosophy, meta-pyhsical thinking, engineering, etc and this is why the process can sometimes (but usually temporarily) effect those with such qualities more.

The way out of the loop within the loop, isn't glamorous sounding (I'm afraid), but Laing explains that it is profoundly simple. He makes the case that to give overly-abstracted thoughts more realness and solidity, that a person has to start making very simple but practical actions in their life. For instance, in the example above with the airline pilot week, I believe Laing might suggest that the person begin writing to the airlines enquiring about training possibilities and what is required. Maybe then attending an exhibition - making contact with other pilots - go for one single short flying lesson now, rather than abstracting the process of whether to invest the next 5 years in hundreds/thousands of flying lessons! Whatever - as long as it is moving towards, solidifying or 'concretising' the abstractions and giving them more form in our minds. He describes that it is only in this process of concretisation (of abstractions) that we begin again to start having a natural sense of which direction we should go in - and once that natural sense starts to re-manifest, the natural courage to pursue what feels right also comes along too - automatically and/or the ability to let go of a certain direction, if during concretisation, it just doesn't feel right. For Laing, this process of concretisation is all to do with stopping the process of the minds endless flip-flopping - yes, no, no - yes - yes, no no - yes...!!! [Of course it's a given that in this process of concretisation, that we have to stay safe and care for ourselves.]

Though I hope this extremely brief exposition of one of Laing's concept/s will be of assistance to you, of course, I have no idea if it actually will be or not - but haha, I'm writing it out anyway. All I can report is that Laing's insight has been profoundly useful to me at times when I have got stuck in overly abstracting things (and paralysed by the minds flip-flopping) and as you mentioned you are doing computer science I am wondering if it might well be useful as I have a very technical/computer background as well.






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Amoré

Hi Kellie this is good advice.

I solidified it this morning by agreeing with her that we can get divorced even if it ripped my heart out and felt like someone jabbed me with a hot iron in there just doing damage. I explained to her that I want her to be happy but she must understand that I have to also be happy and this entitles treatment for me for my gd as I am not entitled to stay her husband or a man for her anymore then.

I told her I hope she find happiness and thanked her for all the nice times we had together and that she married me and for my child. I will try my best to turn around and walk away even though my heart wants to go racing back and try to save it I know I have no say she wants out and the sooner I accept this fact and try to let go the faster I can get back to my life and what she sees as her life.

I never thought it would come to this 3 years back. I did not plan on transitioning when I told her I had dysphoria and my actions of forcing her to accept me and she trying to take my problem and fix it for me only ended in disaster with two people heart broken. I made my bed I have to sleep in it. A stupid mixture of events led up to this and I don't know why life is pushing me in the direction. I did not choose any of this I can only choose to work with things I can control. I can't control having dysphoria I can choose taking treatment to help with it. This is my choice then to be free.

It helps to say "I AM GETTING DIVORCED" it solidifies the idea in my head.Instead of trying to say I don't want to get divorced and I want to save it. I hope there is real happiness after this life that I have led as a man. I really hope being my authentic self is worth it all this pain and suffering. I don't want to hurt my next partner whoever that may be I don't really feel that being a man was a facade sometimes I tried to force myself to be manly that was a facade but being a man was just part of me. Now it is time to be what I felt I should have been all my life.


Excuse me for living
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crazycool86

Quote from: Amoré on December 30, 2015, 01:05:20 AM
I feel like I am caught in a tornado and I am just going round and round doing the same stupid motions each day :-\

I feel like I am going nowhere in life sitting with a marriage that is hopeless due to a spouse that was the best thing that ever happened to me and that I thought was a gift from God in my life to I don't even know how to describe her anymore. She made it clear all road that she is leaving open is one where I walk away out of her life.

I feel this is unfair because how do you love someone for 10 years and decide O you have dysphoria you are not worthy of me anymore! You can stay a man but you are not worthy because you cant be a provider also and buy me everything other men can. She was happy with who I was for 10 years.

Then begs the question why did she take my dysphoria in the first place and made it her battle? I tracked all the events of this past year from that I came out and realised the moment I came out I gave the dysphoria meaning I made it concrete! Also be very careful that your wife does not take your dysphoria and make it her problem and want to fight it for you!

It is a disaster waiting to happen. We had a fight this morning and I mentioned this to her. Now she wants to go to couples counceling. But I am so hurt by her that I feel I can't continue anymore I want to just go and live on my own island in peace. Is this going to be the rest of my life fighting no respect at all! I can't see that she will ever respect me anymore. She is telling me it is not fair for my child that I wanted to be a woman. Well it is not fair also getting divorced. But is it fair growing up in a house where both parents is unhappy then. I can cope with having dysphoria but will I really be happy in any direction? I don't think so really.

She hurt me so badly I feel that I want to end it no matter how bad it hurts walking away. Take the beating of becoming a woman and get it over and done with and find someone that appreciates me for me and not. She will never accept me for being me. She will never accept the dysphoria. She will never be happy or truly happy.Is this why I am taking this beating because she is unhappy ?
im in the same boat i have been married 7years this year. My wife and i have a son together as well. What i had to realize is if someone wants to be with there other half they will do whatever it takes. My wife told me she would not agree with me transitioning into a woman she married a man. so if i go through with it shes gonna leave. After that i went two whole weeks without wearing any female clothing. It felt like  I was basically punishing myself to make her happy. So in turn I thought to myself about the pros and cons. Ill be giving up my position as a President of a club that i have been with for about 6 years. On top of that those that i hold closest to my heart my wife and son. You only het one life why not do what makes you happy. If doing things that make you happy makes other people unhappy then tou have to ask yourself be miserable or be happy?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

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pyhxbp

Quote from: Amoré on January 03, 2016, 04:58:37 AM
I solidified it this morning by agreeing with her that we can get divorced

What was her reaction to being told this? I think how she reacts to getting what she wants could be revealing as to her intentions. If she is as relieved as you then all this bad behaviour may just have been how she deals with bad news. If she tries to back-track and say she does not want the divorce then I would view that (and her past behaviour) as vindictive and controlling.
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Amoré

Quote from: pyhxbp on January 03, 2016, 07:26:32 AM
What was her reaction to being told this? I think how she reacts to getting what she wants could be revealing as to her intentions. If she is as relieved as you then all this bad behaviour may just have been how she deals with bad news. If she tries to back-track and say she does not want the divorce then I would view that (and her past behaviour) as vindictive and controlling.

Well she was sort emotionless she sat there and told me it is fine. Thank you half sarcastic. Then she said she don't want to hurt me anymore. That was that. I told her actually that she is blaming me for divorcing. I told her that this is not the case I don't want to get divorced. But if she must carry it through now because if she does not want to work with me get it done with.


Excuse me for living
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pyhxbp

Quote from: crazycool86 on January 03, 2016, 06:01:49 AM
My wife told me she would not agree with me transitioning into a woman she married a man
...
Ill be giving up my position as a President of a club that i have been with for about 6 years.

Why? I am fairly sure that your club did not think they were marrying a man  ;D

I was in an all-male club and I thought that transition and membership would be incompatible as it was a macho environment. I was completely wrong.

  •  

pyhxbp

Quote from: Amoré on January 03, 2016, 07:29:25 AM
Well she was sort emotionless she sat there and told me it is fine. Thank you half sarcastic. Then she said she don't want to hurt me anymore. That was that.

I would take it as a genuine comment then and hope she lives up to it.
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Amoré

Quote from: pyhxbp on January 03, 2016, 07:30:59 AM
I would take it as a genuine comment then and hope she lives up to it.

If she doesn't I will file for divorce. Because even if I don't want to get divorced I can't see myself living in this situation.



Excuse me for living
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pyhxbp

Quote from: Amoré on January 03, 2016, 07:35:04 AM
If she doesn't I will file for divorce. Because even if I don't want to get divorced I can't see myself living in this situation.

Is there a reason you want her to initiate the divorce? I know you do not want to divorce but there is a world of difference between want and need. For example, I did not want to transition, but I needed to do it.
  •  

Amoré

Quote from: pyhxbp on January 03, 2016, 07:39:51 AM
Is there a reason you want her to initiate the divorce? I know you do not want to divorce but there is a world of difference between want and need. For example, I did not want to transition, but I needed to do it.

At this stage I had a change of heart if I can put it like that I am fed up. She said she wanted to file for divorce so I am giving her the time. I need to divorce her because of my own menthol health being emotionally abused for just being transgender even if I stay a man. Also seeing as my child is in the crossfire. I also don't want to transition but I need to.I don't think the abuse will stop because she have like a transgender radar. O you like this shirt because it is a little more feminine even if you just like the shirt you will always be judged. I need to do it or her sake because she is always going to be insecure.

Also my whole life is on hold and dangling in uncertainty while she is playing her game. I resisted divorce but I am tired of being played with. So the easiest way to end it all is stop resisting.

If this is such a major problem in my current marriage is it going to be repeated in a second relationship having a spouse walk out, abuse me emotionally because I could not make it go away. So I need to transition even if I don't want to just to be save.


Excuse me for living
  •  

Tessa James

Yes, in the final analysis it is up to us to save ourselves.
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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Louisa

Quote from: Amoré on January 03, 2016, 07:50:18 AM
If this is such a major problem in my current marriage is it going to be repeated in a second relationship...

Dear Amore,

I'd say, not necessarily at all.

From reading your latest responses, I was a touch surprised, (if divorce is now acknowledged as the most likely path forward), not to see mention of plans to immediately begin discussing and making arrangements to separate and live separately. Personally, I see the actual legal divorce as the simpler bit of the process, as in essence, as long as a fixed set of guidelines is followed - it has a guaranteed legal outcome.

Often-times more challenging and complex, is the teasing apart of two interlinked lives (speaking of the two individuals joined by marriage), especially financially and in respect to accommodation.

My own personal view (that may or not have any relevance to your circumstances) is that in the vast majority of such situations, continuing to live under the same roof, is asking for 'trouble'. For example, (speaking in terms of the 3rd person) it may likely lead to more temptation for an individual to give up plans that are desperately important to them (in essence compromising themselves). Also, rather than the potentially most complex and challenging aspect of things being dealt with first (and 'getting it out of the way'), it will mean instead that such challenges will always have to be dealt with in the future.

I suspect that when you do leave (presuming you do separate), you will feel a huge burden lifted off of your shoulders, and that you consequently experience a great sense of relief. I personally do not believe there is any reason to take on a belief that the next few years will be difficult and miserable. Whether married or not, when I have been in love with a person, I have always found separation particularly difficult, if not a traumatic process - though have always have found myself surprised as to how simple things were when we did eventually 'go our own separate ways'. As an explanation for this, I have repeatedly settled on the possibility that it was because I did all my 'emotional leaving' before the actual event of separation itself, but just that I had never realised it.

From all that you have described, my intuition informs me that your wife does love you at core, and in many ways (in her own imperfect human way) she is trying to make things easier for you, by giving you the opportunity to leave in your own space and time and in your own way. Of course (unfortunately) we mostly all lose our tempers at times and say things, and behave in ways, we later regret.

However, when you wrote that you will wait for your wife to initiate the divorce, I personally experienced (through my own fallible filters of perception) that somehow you might be putting the job of managing the separation back on your wife's shoulders.

I believe the conventional path of separation first, followed by divorce some approx two years later - with financial discussions taking place in the period in-between (hopefully on an amicable basis) is a process that has been shown over time to be the most viable one.

One also has to factor in the very important (if not vital) dynamic of: 'Out of sight, out of mind' - i.e. that the act of initial separation is of particular psychological importance for the individuals involved, because them not experiencing each other on a daily basis, generally helps them to let go of each over time. 'Out of sight, out of mind' is just a very natural part of healing and getting ourselves back together again.

much love,
Kellie





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Amoré

Quote from: kellie5 on January 04, 2016, 12:55:59 AM
Dear Amore,

I'd say, not necessarily at all.

From reading your latest responses, I was a touch surprised, (if divorce is now acknowledged as the most likely path forward), not to see mention of plans to immediately begin discussing and making arrangements to separate and live separately. Personally, I see the actual legal divorce as the simpler bit of the process, as in essence, as long as a fixed set of guidelines is followed - it has a guaranteed legal outcome.

Often-times more challenging and complex, is the teasing apart of two interlinked lives (speaking of the two individuals joined by marriage), especially financially and in respect to accommodation.

My own personal view (that may or not have any relevance to your circumstances) is that in the vast majority of such situations, continuing to live under the same roof, is asking for 'trouble'. For example, (speaking in terms of the 3rd person) it may likely lead to more temptation for an individual to give up plans that are desperately important to them (in essence compromising themselves). Also, rather than the potentially most complex and challenging aspect of things being dealt with first (and 'getting it out of the way'), it will mean instead that such challenges will always have to be dealt with in the future.

I suspect that when you do leave (presuming you do separate), you will feel a huge burden lifted off of your shoulders, and that you consequently experience a great sense of relief. I personally do not believe there is any reason to take on a belief that the next few years will be difficult and miserable. Whether married or not, when I have been in love with a person, I have always found separation particularly difficult, if not a traumatic process - though have always have found myself surprised as to how simple things were when we did eventually 'go our own separate ways'. As an explanation for this, I have repeatedly settled on the possibility that it was because I did all my 'emotional leaving' before the actual event of separation itself, but just that I had never realised it.

From all that you have described, my intuition informs me that your wife does love you at core, and in many ways (in her own imperfect human way) she is trying to make things easier for you, by giving you the opportunity to leave in your own space and time and in your own way. Of course (unfortunately) we mostly all lose our tempers at times and say things, and behave in ways, we later regret.

However, when you wrote that you will wait for your wife to initiate the divorce, I personally experienced (through my own fallible filters of perception) that somehow you might be putting the job of managing the separation back on your wife's shoulders.

I believe the conventional path of separation first, followed by divorce some approx two years later - with financial discussions taking place in the period in-between (hopefully on an amicable basis) is a process that has been shown over time to be the most viable one.

One also has to factor in the very important (if not vital) dynamic of: 'Out of sight, out of mind' - i.e. that the act of initial separation is of particular psychological importance for the individuals involved, because them not experiencing each other on a daily basis, generally helps them to let go of each over time. 'Out of sight, out of mind' is just a very natural part of healing and getting ourselves back together again.

much love,
Kellie

Thank you Kellie it sometimes help to get the perspective of another person on things. She sees us as separated already it makes it difficult living under one roof unfortunately I have no wear to go that is near by at this stage or family that is willing to help me out.


Excuse me for living
  •  

Lyndsey

Hi Girls

Very seriously I was thinking of opening a house for lost M+F souls so we could have a place to go and work things out when we are so lost and devastated we could all work together and help each other. It is such a hard choice to come out like we have and we need this kind of place. If anyone thinks this is a good idea please notify me by PM.

Hug's
Lyndsey
Lyndsey Marie Burke- Started my journey February 2011 Full time on May 5th 2014 HRT June 6th 2014 Name change and on all records and court documents June 20th 2014 SCS October 20th 2015 with Doctor Marci Bowers in Burlingame California I'm a very Happy women and finally living what I should have been living my whole life. Expect the unexpected. I feel Blessed. Love, Live, Be Happy. Be safe.
  •  

Tessa James

Quote from: Lyndsey on January 04, 2016, 08:00:57 PM
Hi Girls

Very seriously I was thinking of opening a house for lost M+F souls so we could have a place to go and work things out when we are so lost and devastated we could all work together and help each other. It is such a hard choice to come out like we have and we need this kind of place. If anyone thinks this is a good idea please notify me by PM.

Hug's
Lyndsey

Great idea!  Make it so #1 :D
Open, out and evolving queer trans person forever with HRT support since March 13, 2013
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