My pre-vfs voice readings

[Ritana]

I am due to have vfs with Yeson on 8th Jan. Here are my readings from my speech  therapist.

Speaking fundamental frequency: 172.11 Hz
The rage was 146.9 - 237.6 HZ
Mean Pitch:  180.54 Hz

At reading task:

Modal pitch was:198.85 Hz
Range was: 143.6 - 284.5 Hz
mean: 199.14 HZ

Girls who've had vfs, what are your thoughts?

Did you have similar readings?
What improvements did you get and how much increase did you achieve?

Thanks

Rita

[iKate]

Pitch wise, 150Hz to 220-250Hz, sometimes as low as 180-200Hz. But the biggest improvement is the timbre or "color" of the voice.
Other noted improvements are feminine laughs, coughs, sneezes, and other involuntary sounds. Yes, even those.

[Ritana]

I'm assuming these are your postop readings. What do you mean by timber of the voice plz?

Rita

[kwala]

I'm assuming these are your postop readings. What do you mean by timber of the voice plz?

Rita

Timbre is the difference in tonal quality.  For example, a trumpet and a saxophone can play the exact same pitch, but you can tell the difference because they each have a distinct timbre.  Even within the same instrument (human voice, for example) tonal differences exist which is how you recognize people by their voices.  There are many factors that come into play in terms of what creates timbre- resonance and the overtone series being two major ones.

[anjaq]

Your pre op readings are in a female pitch range already. Its going to be interesting what Dr Kim will suggest.

The change in timbre is not always dramatic, but it can be the difference between a voice at 150 Hz sounding male or female. The shorter vocal folds make for a changed timbre because there is less mass that will swing. Its not really like trumpet and tuba but more like flute and trumpet - the part that creates the vibration is different. The size of the resonance body is still the same - so you cannot make a trumpet from a tuba with surgery, this part is more something that comes from speech therapy which lets you control your voice in a way that uses different resonances. With VFS I believe however that it becomes harder to use the male resonances and easier to use the female ones - or more precisely the male resonances are broken and sound hoarse and unclean, while using the female resonances gives a good voice.

[Ritana]

Great replies from both, thanks!

Like. I said i work in a call centre and I take hundreds of thousands of calls a year. I only had two queries out of these as to whether i was a man or a woman. Otherwise, O have never been misgendered, whether on the phone or elsewhere. I guess my voice is in the lower female range already. However, with age it will inévitably get deeper, which might result in it becoming in the upper male range. To prevent this from happening, I am recoursing to vfs.

[anjaq]

Hmm - I am not sure about the age - even so, it would be compensated by the fact that you are older then and people would take that into account. Your pre OP readings are very similar to my post op readings , incidentially
But of course Dr Kim tries to find your original pitch, the one you had before transitioning, which can be lower than the everyday voice later on.

[iKate]

I'm assuming these are your postop readings. What do you mean by timber of the voice plz?

Rita

Pre op my fundamental was around 158Hz. Now it is around 220-250 depending.

Timbre is best explained like this - you play a note on a guitar and the same note on a piano they will sound different. Same thing, you listen to a man and listen to a women and both are different, even at the same pitch.

I have the full pre op report from Yeson, I think my range was 80 to about 300+Hz.

[Ritana]

Pre op my fundamental was around 158Hz. Now it is around 220-250 depending.


Ikate

My understanding is that pitch determines people's perception of a person's gender. I thought if two people(from two opposite biological genders) have the same pitch, then they will automatically  be categorised in the same gender?? I really don't seem to get it.

[kwala]

^There are many, many factors that come into play when our ears and brains assign a gender to a voice.  Pitch, prosody, tempo, inflection, timbre, etc all play a role in the final assessment.  Pitch is only one factor, albeit an important one.

[iKate]

Pre op my fundamental was around 158Hz. Now it is around 220-250 depending.


Ikate

My understanding is that pitch determines people's perception of a person's gender. I thought if two people(from two opposite biological genders) have the same pitch, then they will automatically  be categorised in the same gender?? I really don't seem to get it.

Pitch is only part of the story. It is feminine timbre that gets a voice gendered correctly and that is more complex than just pitch. In fact there is a thread here of someone who is post op from Yeson, 250Hz and still sounds masculine. There is resonance and prosody primarily. With pitch all 3 work in tandem to produce a male or female voice.

[iKate]

^There are many, many factors that come into play when our ears and brains assign a gender to a voice.  Pitch, prosody, tempo, inflection, timbre, etc all play a role in the final assessment.  Pitch is only one factor, albeit an important one.

I will say that pitch isn't all that important as people make it out to be. Yes it's important but not critical. However most MTFs can benefit from a pitch increase.

[iKate]

Here is my pre op data
Untrained relaxed voice:


Higher pitch (still pre op):

[Ritana]

That is very interesting, Ikate.

So vfs can change both pitch and timber?

When Jessi talks about vfs, she usually refers to an pitch increase (74htz in average), I've never heard her mention timber!? Not sure why.

Rita

[kwala]

That is very interesting, Ikate.

So vfs can change both pitch and timber?

When Jessi talks about vfs, she usually refers to an pitch increase (74htz in average), I've never heard her mention timber!? Not sure why.

Rita

It's probably because the goal of this surgery is to correct pitch, and pitch alone.  Changes in timbre do usually occur, but are often very slight.  Most of what creates timbre has to do with the shape or your oral and nasal tracks, which are unaffected by this type of procedure.  The doctors don't want to advertise changes that can be imperceptible and I don't really blame them.  Timbre is something that can be changed with therapy and that's why most (if not all) voice surgeons recommend voice therapy in addition to surgery.

[Ritana]

Great, my speech therapist says i have a perfect intonation, and a passable pitch and voice. She advised me against vfs. I just hate when I hear my voice in recordings. I also hate it when i caugh or laugh. Laughter is an important aspect of expressing joy. Restricting/ controlling it can only affect the quality of your life.

[iKate]

It's probably because the goal of this surgery is to correct pitch, and pitch alone.  Changes in timbre do usually occur, but are often very slight.  Most of what creates timbre has to do with the shape or your oral and nasal tracks, which are unaffected by this type of procedure.  The doctors don't want to advertise changes that can be imperceptible and I don't really blame them.  Timbre is something that can be changed with therapy and that's why most (if not all) voice surgeons recommend voice therapy in addition to surgery.

Timbre changes because the lower male tones are gone and other artifacts such as glottal fry sound different with shorter vocal folds.

[anjaq]

Timbre is important indeed. Also prosody and resonance.
I had a 130-160 Hz speaking pitch pre OP but was usually gendered female because of the resonance and prosody. Timbre was low though , so on the phone I did get misgendered. With surgery, pitch went to 160-190 Hz and timbre changed, so that hopefully the darker timbre is gone well enough to not be misgendered anymore.

[Ritana]

Anjaq,

Do you now pass all the time on the phone.or do you have to strain a bit? Have you ever been phone-misgendred since having vfs?

[anjaq]

I have not been misgendered at all in the past year, which is great, but I must admit I did not really push ist. I did not have many phone calls where the other does not either know my name or myself already. There are little such occasions somehow. And if so, people usually do not gender someone. Its not like in the US where people constantly call each other sir or madam...