Is the MTF GRS in Thailand better than the one in North America?

[ShadowCharms]

Hi everyone,

I'm working my way toward MTF bottom surgery, and right now I'm the most interested in Dr. McGinn. The more I read about GRS, the more it seems like the technique used by surgeons in Thailand is actually better than the one most surgeons in North America use. Is that true? If so, in what ways? If it's a better technique, why is it not practiced here, as well?

[Serenation]

there's pro's and con's to all the options and it's subjective. It's kind of like asking is Thai food better than North American food

[Laura_7]

You could have  look here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,193067.msg1721458.html#msg1721458
and here:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,193632.msg1726310.html#msg1726310



-there are differences in techniques and in look.
Usually the N.A. surgeons are optimized for circumsized people and as result have a tidy look with small inner and outer labia
The thai surgeons may generate more generous outer labia.
Both can handle circumsized and uncircumsized people, just talk with the surgeon.
If necessary skin grafts are used.
Some surgeons ask for preferences, depth, looks, feelings.


hugs

[AnonyMs]

There's more than one technique used in Thailand. Dr Suporn invented a new one, it looks like Dr Chett has some variant of it, and others do penile inversion. To me the title suggest the question, is Suporn's technique better, followed by what about Chett because its the same only cheaper. Except some people say Chett's aesthetics is better than Suporns. And others that at least some USA surgeons don't do the old style penile inversion anymore.

The difficulty is that there's no consensus on the truth of any of that. There's not enough solid evidence out there that you can check and they all have patients that like them and patients that have had bad problems. Personally I prefer Suporn for all sorts of the most excellent reasons, but whats that worth exactly?

And chances are someone will take issue with me saying Chett has a variant of Suporn's technique.

Personally I confront this problem by doing a lot of research then guessing.

[Jessika]

there's pro's and con's to all the options and it's subjective. It's kind of like asking is Thai food better than North American food

I would not really compare food since food is an acquired taste.

If you don't like it you can try the other.

With GRS if you try one, You are STUCK with that ONE choice. There is no "Acquired" taste to see which is better.

I think the OP is trying to gather information based on those who have experienced either types and locations of procedures with GRS.

[Laura_7]

Here was a comment on Suporn:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,96561.msg706793.html#msg706793

He is imo the only one who meshes the tissue to gain extra depth.
And some people say with the meshing tissue might turn more easy into a mucosa.

He seems to have experience in reconstructive surgery and integrated this method.
He seems to leave some erectile tissue in place which some say is more like a female arousal where there is also some erectile tissue.
Some well endowed candidates reported problems.


hugs

[AnonyMs]

I forgot to say in my previous post that I'm quite certain one is better than the other, that's the nature of people, but which one?

[Catherine Sarah]

Hi Shadowcharms,

Irrespective of technique; which after the extensive research I did into it, do I believe any technique practiced in Thailand is better than anywhere else { can be more marketing hype than anything else} I tend to believe it's the follow up and post op support you get from your surgeon. That's where I believe you realise the worth of your investment. Just do your homework, do your research. Ask, ask and keep asking questions until you're satisfied.

Personally myself, I found the language barrier (ESL) in Thailand presented a considerable barrier. Particularly if anything went pear shaped. I also sensed a little too much marketing hype as to their capabilities. Whereas in North America it was more like "Well sweetheart, this is the way it goes."

The surgeons I interviewed in North America, perhaps instilled greater confidence in their overall capacity and experience than elsewhere.

Just remember, at the end of the day, it's your body, your responsibility. You need to be 110% happy with not only your choice, but with the procedure, post op care, and everything else along the way. Ensure you're FULLY informed. No questions unanswered, no doubt whatsoever.

Hope 2016 sees your dreams and series fulfilled.

Speak to you as soon as it stops raining.

Huggs
Catherine

[Jenna Marie]

The problem is that what is "better" differs from person to person. For example, I didn't care too much about depth; the Thai surgeons generally guarantee more depth (with a more invasive surgery technique), but that's not better for me. Whereas I also like smaller inner labia and better defined outer labia, which the Thai results generally seem to trend *against*; again, not better for me. So which is better is going to come down to what you want most. You may want to figure that out first, then go shopping for the surgeon who  most reliably produces in the area that is your #1 priority.

Everyone has to prioritize depth, sensation, function, and aesthetics (and sometimes specifics of how we want it to look or function). I cared most about sensation and function, and then aesthetics, and then depth. So I picked a surgeon with a solid track record in producing the first three and a known tendency to achieve acceptable depth and call it good, and I was satisfied. (I also cared a lot about getting adequate aftercare - which the Thai surgeons are in fact known for doing excellently as well - because I believed the first couple weeks post-op can influence the final result substantially and also I wanted the peace of mind. And I found a surgeon who did 10 days of aftercare [first 2-3 in a hospital, remainder in a recovery residence with 24/7 resident nurses on duty].)

[Catherine Sarah]

.........He seems to leave some erectile tissue in place which some say is more like a female arousal where there is also some erectile tissue.
Some well endowed candidates reported problems.

The erectile tissue left refers to a portion of the corpus cavernosum and corpus spongiosum soft blood vessel structure of glan penis which originates and supports erection. Most surgeons leave a portion of these elements in order to cope with the increased blood flow summoned during sexual stimulation. If this procedure is not carried out correctly, excessive and prolonged swelling can occur post sexual stimulation that can be painful and in some cases, quite harmful.

Speak to you as soon as I glue this stamp to my tongue.

Huggs
Catherine

[TG CLare]

I won't get into which is better but I took into consideration language barriers, and the distance to travel both ways. It can be hell to be sitting on a very sore spot for 12 hours or more. The again, whet if you run into a problem and have to return to the office? It's faster and by far cheaper to be in the US as opposed to flying all the way across the globe! I believe that many surgeons will not repair another's work unless it's life threatening so something to contemplate.

My surgery was done by Dr. McGinn in June and I'm very happy with the results! I'm sure that most of those who have had it done recommend their surgeon and I'm certain most of them are good otherwise they won't last long in business.

Love,
Clare

[OCAnne]

...excessive and prolonged swelling can occur post sexual stimulation that can be painful and in some cases, quite harmful.

Call your doctor (seek medical attention) if an erection lasts for more than 4 hours?  Is this a Viagra thing?
It's my experience, proper attention to sexual stimulation tends to take care of the...mmm post-op female erection.

If I was younger the Thailand treatment would make sense.  But I'm old and dislike traveling, so 'walk-in SRS' in Los Angeles was my choice.

Thank you,
Anne

[Lagertha]

You need to choose surgeon who's technique and result will be the best for you. No surgeon is best for everybody, we all have different preferences.

mine are:
- depth. 6 inch at least... If I get more, even better.
- self-lubricating vaginal wall. Suporn's technique gives the best chance for that, apart from old colon technique I don't want
- keeping most erectile tissue. I want full sexual sensation, which includes having erectile tissue, in natural female pattern, not just in clitoral glans
- prominent inner labia. I don't like the innie look with barely any labia minora, which is usually result of penile-inversion variations
- labia majora made from penile skin. I don't like the appearance of labia majora made from scrotal flaps
- frenulum looks amazing!!!
- secondary sensate organ. Whole glans with nerve bundle is preserved. Excess material is carefully separated, and is used as secondary sensate organ (2nd clitoris) placed near vaginal entrance.
- not needing to do any electrolysis

That made pretty easy choice for me...

[Serenation]

I would not really compare food since food is an acquired taste.

If you don't like it you can try the other.

With GRS if you try one, You are STUCK with that ONE choice. There is no "Acquired" taste to see which is better.

I think the OP is trying to gather information based on those who have experienced either types and locations of procedures with GRS.

I know, but I don't see the point in that since no one can have an unbiased valid opinion.

[Cindy]

Well I am going to the surgeons session at the Amsterdam WPATH conference in June, so I could stand up and ask them to vote who is the best?

Not sure I'd be popular or get an unbiased opinion

[AnonyMs]

Well I am going to the surgeons session at the Amsterdam WPATH conference in June, so I could stand up and ask them to vote who is the best?

Not sure I'd be popular or get an unbiased opinion

I'd not trust a word they said. On the other hand an independent academic paper on it would be very interesting.

[Catherine Sarah]

Call your doctor (seek medical attention) if an erection lasts for more than 4 hours?  Is this a Viagra thing?

No, it's not a Viagra thing. It was a reference made to some surgeons who are known to create serious problems by not carrying out the appropriate procedures correctly.

Blood summoned by sexual stimulation isn't given the necessary drainage system back to the vascular network, causing extended and prolonged swelling with subsequent pain levels.

Speak to you as soon as I eat my banana (They're in season, so are the cherries)

Huggs
Catherine

[iKate]

I am watching this thread with interest. I want to make a decision too. I may end up being able to pull off a Thailand trip after all, depending.

I am not circumcised however the "donor material" has always been rather small. Like much thinner than average, almost like a child's (I also had lots of trouble conceiving naturally and Low T throughout life). I am hoping I don't have to do sigmoid colon but not being circumcised could work to my advantage.

With that said, Thai or NA? I wish I could get on Schaff's waiting list but 3 years... oh my

[Laura_7]

What about:
-Brassard
-Suporn
-Chett
-Kamol, Sanguan    ?

If the donor material is small often docs use a skin graft.
And some people ... work ... a few minutes a day  .. a bit on donor material to add a bit of length.


hugs

[Joi]

I know that Chett. recommends "grafts" based upon allot of the posts from his patients that I have encountered.

An earlier comment regarding donor material has me wondering.  Just what is considered adequate donor material?

I have what would be considered a "partial" or "incomplete" circumcision.  I presume that this would be somewhat advantageous in the construction of the "clitoral" hood (although no one has ever confirmed this for me).

And with regard to the "other donor material" As erections are a distant memory -  How does one calculate "adequate"?
Is it number the of inches or centimeters in the flaccid state that is the determinant?

Seems kinda late in the "game" (for me) to be posing these questions, but in fact, it looks like we don't get to find out until we're front & center with our surgeon just days before surgery.