Does God Exist?

[Devlyn]

The human race hasn't produced a single survivor yet. What do tornadoes have to do with it?

Hugs, Devlyn

Every spring, through Kansas and Oklahoma, tornadoes rip through villages and towns. Christians say if you believe and pray bad stuff won't happen to you. Doesn't work, does it?

Tornadoes destroy one house and leave the one next door completely untouched, so maybe it does work.

[Mew]

Unfortunately, those who believe in a higher power and don't have some type of understanding how things came into being such has through science, the study of how the material world and its inhabitatants came into being, they are very easily manipulated by scriptures and their very own faith. I don't have an issue with the person's faith however I've met to many people this faith is all they need and fail to see the big picture of things. faith should serve as a factor to help one navigate through life, not explain it. In this harsh world, you need solid facts to survive. Also on the tornado thing, there are many people of faith that pray not to get hit but God bit yet they still get hit. so no, praying only plays a factor in giving comfort not protection

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[stephaniec]

It would be pretty funny if the New Testament was an absolute correct recording of the events of the period that Christ walked the earth. The problem people have is that those events never had happened before nor after and are so unbelievable according to common sense that it's far more easier to discount than to accept. And on top of the believability   is the fact  that the government that had supreme authority throughout  the land sure the heck would not want history to record that they were responsible for the execution of God's son .

[Deborah]

Well to be fair another problem is that the only primary sources to those events are from anonymous authors and nobody knows whether  they were writing as witnesses or simply copying other sources.  Textual criticism suggests there was a lot of copying.

A second issue is a complete absence of anything written by the protagonist himself.

A third issue is that the majority of the New Testament was written by Paul or people claiming his name and he never actually met Jesus at all.  He simply proclaimed himself an apostle after the fact.

As you said, that does not prove the events didn't happen.  But it does point to a curious lack of evidence of happenings that would be extraordinary at any point in time.  A strong example is the dead rising from their graves and walking around Jerusalem.  Is it reasonable to believe that this happened and that nobody noticed or wrote home about it?


Sapere Aude

[stephaniec]

I think one of the problems is The Jewish community itself as regards the elders not wanting these facts published because of fear their religion would not continue to exist because Jesus himself being a Jew. Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, by the Romans and all Jews were forbidden for living any where around there.  The recording of events was done through passing the stories down through word of mouth. Jesus was a criminal and his teaching were punishable by imprisonment and death. His followers were in hiding. I have a personal belief the  Book of Revelations holds a lot of historical fact , but is disguised under writing that seem fantastical in order for the facts described to avoid detection by Rome.  As far as things like the dead walking  one interpretation of the resurrection is that basically we all are the dead walking because God has the ability to raise the temple back up from destruction which you could say the earth is the temple. There is a lot of ways physically to explain all the miracles .
I'm not going into that because it's just conjecture on my part  and all one needs to say is that I've done too much LSD. Also if Jesus was truly the son of God healing would not be a problem even though its so hard to comprehend because no one before or after has that ability.

[Mew]

We can all stand here all day debating whats real and whats not. In the eyes of science and what has actually occurred throughout history, there is a huge rift between those that follow God and those that follow reality and what truly is. What can't be explained, God's follows say its because of God, however they become disappointed when science proves what happens in its almost exact order. Sure, no one can explain the big bang but its been proven that dinosaurs came before humans thus debunking the Adam and eve and the garden of Eden plot in the book of Genesis because there are no human remains before the time of the dinosaurs that scientist can carbon date. However there are good things about religion and having a belief in something higher than ourselves. Life is far to strange and not even science can explain everything but continues to make advance to try and understand our world and the worlds left undiscovered to give us some understanding. Religion and belief comes into play when your dealing with the dynamics of family structure, society and your own self. Life is far to difficult and unforgiving to go blind and without some direction. This is why i don't believe in the concept of Heaven and Hell. Your heaven is passing on without regret and with a smile on your face, your hell is passing on with unfinished business and worry that you'll care with you into your next life. The idea of becoming and angel and serving is like slavery to me and this kind of slavery in the afterlife is worse than death. You lose free will and only follow what your told to do and say. Religion was created to give us guidelines and rules to follow to become productive in our own growth and development. However, there are radicals who take it way to far. As i mentioned in a previous post, belief is good but there must be a balance and that's where the sciences come in, as well as its not a matter of people trying to change you and your prospective, its about how strongly you feel about something and how far your willing to go, but just remember the consequences and not everything is as black and white as you hope them to be. I gave up on believing because the human heart is to easily manipulated and the statement i said before " only by God's grace will you be saved," doesn't matter what i do, i wont be saved unless by God's grace and earning grace is next to impossible because even the believer's heart will easily succumb to sin

[stephaniec]

just for me personally I made a choice to believe in God and I have no regrets.

[Mew]

just for me personally I made a choice to believe in God and I have no regrets.

Than continue with that belief. Do what makes you happy. With this said, I will now bow out of this

[Brandon]

1. Yes

2. Too many unexplainable things have happened that could have only been him.

I have a girlfriend who has a son and a daughter and I consider them very much so my son and daughter. My daughter in April of 2015 had a hole in her heart and needed open heart surgery at 4, I prayed about it and my girlfriend calls me, mine you this was a few days before her surgery because her surgery was scheduled for June 22nd and she says she has great news and I said well what is it and she says the doctor did an X-Ray on Kaylee today and he couldn't find the hole in her heart.

My girlfriend had knee surgery back in June of 2015 sadly things went downhill because they screwed up on her knee and when she got home she was coughing up blood so she had to go back to the hospital, Once they put her back under the anestetia her heart rate started dropping and she then had no brain activity for a total of 2 days, her lungs then started to collapse because she had a seizure while they were working on her and they had to do emergency surgery on her, the doctors said she had a 50/50 chance of living and they didn't believe she was even gonna make it, I flipped out hearing that, all I could do was cry because I thought we were gonna loose her and because I just couldn't imagine my life without her so I prayed about it and I actually went outside for a walk to clear my head and I stopped and looked up in the sky and said God if you really exist let her live, after that I heard a voice say trust me. Once I prayed again its like I felt this weight lifted off me, I didn't cry anymore or worry because I trusted him and surely enough the next morning she was on her way home the next day.

Later on in July of 2015 she had in incident which put her into a coma for a few days, the doctors once again said she had a 50/50, I prayed once again that he would pull her through and the next day the doctors says that she will be released at night or in the morning and that she's doing fine.

And there was way more where that came from, you can't tell me there is not a higher being up there.

[Serverlan]

1. Yes

2. Too many unexplainable things have happened that could have only been him.

I prayed about it and my girlfriend calls me... she says the doctor did an X-Ray on Kaylee today and he couldn't find the hole in her heart.

I prayed again... and surely enough the next morning she was on her way home the next day.

I prayed once again... and the next day the doctors says that she will be released at night or in the morning and that she's doing fine.

And there was way more where that came from, you can't tell me there is not a higher being up there.

If god exists and can help people in the way that you think, then she sure is letting a lot of other people down.

[Colleen M]

If god exists and can help people in the way that you think, then she sure is letting a lot of other people down.

I've always had another problem with the "god(s) did it" school of thought. 

Take Bubonic plague.  It hit Europe hard in the Sixth Century, and then absolutely rampaged in the Fourteenth.  Then there were some later outbreaks (really starting with India) which were actually managed increasingly well by a "how do we understand what's going on here?" school of thought.  But in the earlier outbreaks, the superstitious explanation for the  problem meant they tried to stop a blood-borne disease carried by fleas on rats through doing things like carrying around pockets full of posies, or posting crosses over their doors, or by killing all the cats in sight as familiars of the witches who had brought the plague about.  The last a particularly unhelpful action when rats are part of the problem.  But there was no point in worrying about an explanation because all that death and disfigurement was simply "god's will."     

Obviously, it takes time and resources to understand increasingly complicated problems, and there's always the "god of holes" problem as the god in question shrinks further with each explanation, but we've got deaths in the (tens of ?  hundreds of?) millions from centuries of people who simply made no effort to understand the problem because they were already satisfied that it was divine will.  Aside from the intellectual problems, I consider this a moral indictment in its own right.  How many people would have survived bubonic plague without "god(s) did it" having served as the explanation and treatment for centuries?  How many victims of internal and external disease processes would have survived if entire societies hadn't gotten complacent with divine intervention and actually started trying to figure out exactly how people were really living and dying? 

So, yes, I agree that god(s) are a poor mechanism for understanding the world, but the cost of that mechanism is simply horrifying.       

[Brandon]

If god exists and can help people in the way that you think, then she sure is letting a lot of other people down.

God doesn't work on our time either and that's he.

[Brandon]

I've always had another problem with the "god(s) did it" school of thought. 

Take Bubonic plague.  It hit Europe hard in the Sixth Century, and then absolutely rampaged in the Fourteenth.  Then there were some later outbreaks (really starting with India) which were actually managed increasingly well by a "how do we understand what's going on here?" school of thought.  But in the earlier outbreaks, the superstitious explanation for the  problem meant they tried to stop a blood-borne disease carried by fleas on rats through doing things like carrying around pockets full of posies, or posting crosses over their doors, or by killing all the cats in sight as familiars of the witches who had brought the plague about.  The last a particularly unhelpful action when rats are part of the problem.  But there was no point in worrying about an explanation because all that death and disfigurement was simply "god's will."     

Obviously, it takes time and resources to understand increasingly complicated problems, and there's always the "god of holes" problem as the god in question shrinks further with each explanation, but we've got deaths in the (tens of ?  hundreds of?) millions from centuries of people who simply made no effort to understand the problem because they were already satisfied that it was divine will.  Aside from the intellectual problems, I consider this a moral indictment in its own right.  How many people would have survived bubonic plague without "god(s) did it" having served as the explanation and treatment for centuries?  How many victims of internal and external disease processes would have survived if entire societies hadn't gotten complacent with divine intervention and actually started trying to figure out exactly how people were really living and dying? 

So, yes, I agree that god(s) are a poor mechanism for understanding the world, but the cost of that mechanism is simply horrifying.       

I mean its no different than getting a spanking from your parents God lets certain things happen as a wake up call just like our parents had to woop us God has to do the same thing which is why everything in the world is happening.

[Deborah]

Parents don't kill their children except for the ones we call truly evil.  Nor do parents deliberately stand by and watch their children get hurt except for the negligent ones we charge with child abuse.  Nor does a parent torture their child in unending fiery pain unless they are a psychopath.


Sapere Aude

[stephaniec]

of course God exists , why else does orange juice go perfectly with tequila or a broiled rib eye with baked potato.

[Dena]

  Remember this is a religious tread and TOS 16 states that you should not judge another's beliefs. The thread is unlocked. 

[Brandon]

Parents don't kill their children except for the ones we call truly evil.  Nor do parents deliberately stand by and watch their children get hurt except for the negligent ones we charge with child abuse.  Nor does a parent torture their child in unending fiery pain unless they are a psychopath.


Sapere Aude

Ill just say this, did you ever think that the bad stuff that goes on in the world is because of our own selves. Yes God lets certain things happen but we are doing this to ourselves everything starts with the man in the mirror as I said and as far as hell goes yeah I ask the same thing sometimes but I can't deny the facts and what I have seen because then il just get denied from heaven. Ill leave it at that.

[Deborah]

I simply completed the syllogism.  Since I used to be very devout myself, attending seminary and teaching Bible classes in an extremely conservative and reactionary Anglican Church, my judging anybody in this forum for their religious belief would be more hypocrisy than I could swallow in one evening.

I no longer believe any of it and will be straightforward as to my reasoning why.  But having been there myself I understand why others do believe.

So, if my aim in that post was misdirected then I apologize for the misunderstanding.


Sapere Aude

[Deborah]

How any of our actions bring on such things as tsunamis that kill 20,000 people or the tornadoes that kill people in my part of the country every spring and fall is beyond my capacity to understand.  We do not cause these things in any way whatsoever.  And yet they happen and people suffer and people die.

And there is one who is purported to possess the power to stop these things with no more than a word.  But they continue to happen as they have since the beginning.


Sapere Aude

[Feminator]

1) Yes, Deity exists, I believe it is both feminine and masculine as in God and Goddess.

2) Look around you, there are so many miracles every day, and I don't talk about the sun coming up, either. So many unexplained things and things that are omens that turn out to be correct. Some can be brushed off to science or statistics of luck, but there is so much more that cannot be explained. There cannot only be a God because there is feminine energy and there cannot just be a Goddess as there is masculine energy.