FTM sex crisis.(transitioned as child, now 24). Something bad happened. Need adv

[Schmuckle]

Alright, so I'm new to this whole blog and what not. This is my first post so please be warned-- it is LENGTHY, but i am looking for some help for the first time in my stubborn life. See, I do not consider myself to be in the trans community anymore really. I was diagnosed trans clinically at age 10 and began socially transitioning at 11 and my medical transition with hormes at 12. By 14 I had top surgery. So I'm 24 years old now and remember very little of having many common female features or living life not already transitioned. I had breast and a period for about 2-4 years of my life I think.I had my hysto last year and still have not had lower surgery. It's been weird tho. I have never really suffered from disphoria of my lower parts. The older I get the more I view is as a "wall" rather than a vagina. I view it mainly as a medical issue, almost now like I'm now a man who was born transexual . Because of this I feel like I have trouble relating to other a lot trans people who say, haven't transitioned till older. I feel Like no one really gets me.

However, I'm 24 now and out of the ass crack of nowhere something has rocked my world and it is directly related to me being trans....

Before i go on i think i should note that I think one of the reasons I feel like I can maintain such coolness and control over the fact that I have a vagina is because I've never been sexually active. (not edited), I've never even been on a date or kissed a girl.( For me it has always been black and white.- after i have lower surgery i will have sex with my girlfriend/wife. No if ands or buts.And if for some reason i can never get surgery then i can never have sex. Period. Ill be dying a prude. And the thought of having sex with a man in the way a woman would has always been literally appalling to me. I am ashamed  to say that I have my whole life had a very deep prejudice towards ftms who have had sex with a guy- even before they transitioned.I have always felt that no true man could ever do such a thing.I apologize if this hurts people feelings)And yet in the past couple years my fantasies and desires to be with a woman, not just sexually but also emotionally, have left me at times feeling that I am trapped and going to where. I think they have effected me in some, shall I say...completely unexpected ways.

So last year I befriended this dude about 20 years older as we were taking classes together. He was fun to go to bars with and just chill. Pretty soon he told me he was gay and incredibly promiscuous- as in I am shocked now that he isn't dead yet. When he told me I was completely cool. I didn't tell him I was trans as I never tell people.

Now, the more we hung out I he would make it clear with jokes that he had a tiny man crush on me but I had no issue with it- it was more funny than anything else.I never felt uncomfortable around him or that he was doing anything weird. I even slept in his bed one night with him while crashing at his crib. There was nothing to it.

however one day something happened and its a hard pill for me to swallow.

This day while hanging at his house we were in his room chilling and goofing off. I punched him in the balls as we were goof fighting. I made a stupid comment about "where are you're balls"?. And then he tried to hit me in my balls. I tried to block his hit but it was too fast. He all of a sudden looked serious and said " where are yours?". And this is where it went downhill. Out of absolutely no where I opened my mouth and told him that I didn't have any. I told him that i was born like this and am trans. He didn't blink an eye. Like I said nothing of any kind of measure. we then began to chat a tiny bit, relaxing on his bed. He started asking questions about surgery and so forth, what was going on down "there". And I began to ask him some questions as well- and we started talking about male genitalia functions and so forth. It just seemed that the situation flowed.But then things got really interesting, at one point in the situation while talking about nuts he pulled his out and starting to point certain things out. I actually touched them asking " why are ur nuts this or that". And I think that is where I really screwed myself.the next thing I know he exposed the rest of him self and begin touching his self. Then like a nitwit, so did i. And all of a sudden what felt like a medical exam turned bizarre and sexual. The next thing I can remember thinking is a simple " ah, what the <Not Permitted>, I'm gonna regret this". And i wasn't even aroused. It was like i made a conscious decision to do something JUST to do something! Like to jump off a bridge just to jump off.

So next thing I know, there was attempt at me giving him oral. I just physically couldnt make myself do it for long.it felt like my brain wiring wasn't working with the image I was seeing. so then it switched to him using his fingers to do things to me. It was weird, I couldn't really feel his fingers, like my genitals didn't have feeling. Then eventually we started to roll around and thats when we technically "did it". The feeling is nothing like i would have imagined it to be.

It felt like...nothing. There was no disphoria, no " clashing" of me and my body. No anxiety, no sexual pleasure, no emotion, no thought. No feeling of being inavading upon or sheer physical pain as in with my two pap exams. Absolutely no feeling of submissiveness or being effeminate in any way (there was no "woman" inside of me). It was just void.

The situation didn't last long as he is attracted to penises as I am to vaginas, and do to my hormone use my area is pretty closed up and hard inside.we really couldn't do it and it was simply not arousing. He basically rolled off of me. And made the comment that he thought it was nuts that I had been a virgin and that I needed "a lot of help down there" as I was so "closed up". He then proceeded to masturbate next to me as I was lying up against the headboard. I tried not to look while he was doing it but caught a glimpse of him ejaculating out of the corner of my eye. All of a sudden I felt like I wanted to vomit.

We got dressed, went outside for a cigarette. And I told myself " what the hell was that? Oh well, move on". I went home like nothing happen- it was put in a little container in the back of my mind. But then as time past, I began to have nightmares. Horrible nightmare. And then I admitted to myself the sentence in full " I have have had sex with a man-- like a woman would". Like a woman would. Like a woman would. Like a woman would. Like a woman would.

The words pierced me. Like I was being impaled by a hot poker. I couldn't eat or sleep. I felt like a part of me had died. I wanted to go back in time so  bad, so powerfully that for flickering moments It felt like I actually could.

This occurred, in November of 2014. And since the initial emotional pain, I have been doing better. Ive been trying to accept  it.I think the fact that I'm trying to reach out to people is a good sign. If someone could please give me some feedback, in any kind of way it would be greatly appreciated. I still have trouble understanding why i did what i did.I am ashamed now of having personally frowned upon other ftms for doing what I have now done. May my prejudices leave me.

Mod Edit:Language

[stephaniec]

Well, I'm a MTF so take with a grain of salt , but I think your worried about something you should be worried about. People of all ages and sexual preferences experiment all the time , it's really not a big deal. I'm bisexual so it doesn't bother me which sex I'm with.  I haven't been with anyone for a very long time , but when I was young I was all over the place.

[Kylo]

Sex is just an act. Like going to the john or brushing your teeth. It's not really that significant, after you do it a few times, you realized it's just not all that and all the build up people give it as something momentous and romantic (especially that first time) is usually just crap.

In my view sex is absolutely pointless and boring unless it's with somebody you are in love with.

Sounds like it was a learning experience that can turn out positive. You did it and you saw what it was like. It wasn't for you, so you were right. Put it behind you and find the kind of relationships you want to have.

This idea you seem to have though about men only being dominant and penetrative in bed isn't true. You think a guy lying there taking oral sex from a woman is a dominant position to be in? Actually it's a position of submission and trust, when you consider she could take that junk off with her teeth if she wanted to. The act of sex is a compromise of submissions of different kinds for both partners. A penis is more delicate than the equivalent female anatomy which is designed to take a lot more physically, as it were. It's kind of amusing this fiction in society we have about women being truly submissive and helpless and delicate when it's really a lot of BS. 

[FTMDiaries]

I'm so sorry you've been struggling with this experience; it's clearly affected you quite badly.

However, I can assure you that there's no such thing as us 'having sex like a woman would'. If you're a guy, you're a guy - and if you choose to use your man cave for intimate purposes, that doesn't make you magically morph into a woman, does it? Of course not! It doesn't change who you are in the slightest. So what if most women also share a part of anatomy that you & I were born with? That doesn't mean they get to claim that part as being exclusively theirs. Women have bladders too, and I don't magically turn into a woman every time I pee.

Perhaps the problem here is two-fold: you seem to have (or to have had) some old-fashioned views about what constitutes sex, gender and sexuality. You also bravely acknowledge having had some bad opinions about FtMs who use our innies for intimate purposes; perhaps it'll help you to know that those of us who do so are generally very comfortable with doing so because those parts belong to us - so there's nothing female about them! We all have every right to use our bodies however we see fit.

The other problem is this: it would appear you were sexually assaulted by your friend. It seems the situation went much further than you wanted it to, so naturally you're struggling to cope with the assault, as would most survivors. Basically, he was aroused and down to clown: you weren't but you just thought you'd go along with it for the experience, right? But by the time it gets to the point where you can't carry through with an act, or you want to vomit... you are no longer consenting to what's going on. That's when it should've stopped, and the fact that it carried on beyond that point turns it into an assault (even if it wasn't deliberate, the psychological scars are the same). That would explain why this has been playing on your mind for more than a year.

It's perfectly natural to be curious about different sexual practices and to experiment (safely!) with those that interest you. You found yourself in a situation where a certain opportunity arose; you tried it out; you found it definitely wasn't for you. In most cases, we'd just chalk it up to experience and put it in the category of something you don't want to try again. But that's not the real problem, is it? The problem is that the entire situation went beyond the point of your consent. It's also pretty clear to me from the way you reacted to your friend that you appear to be exclusively attracted to women, which means this assault has another dimension of emotional harm for you.

I urge you to seek out a rape crisis centre in your vicinity and ask to speak to one of their counsellors. You have a lot of unresolved feelings about this assault, and working through them will help you move forwards.

[November Fox]

This is just my view - I want to offer it as an alternative to what´s been said, from my own perspective. If you had nightmares, it had a serious impact on you, whether consciously or subsconsciously.

If you can get over it with some time I would encourage you to do so, but if you continue feeling emotionally twisted and having nightmares, don´t try to force yourself to walk around with them and not do anything about it, but maybe speak to someone in a therapeutic setting.

I am not saying that this is the case, just that I have some experience with situations that are hard to process, and know that many people are very demanding of themselves, specially when guilting themselves or telling themselves to get over it at once.

Hope you are able to process it in time, and also, agreed with what´s been said already; being dominant or submissive, on the bottom or on top, doesn´t have anything to do with your gender; and experimentation is a normal part of growing as a human being.

The other problem is this: it would appear you were sexually assaulted by your friend. It seems the situation went much further than you wanted it to, so naturally you're struggling to cope with the assault, as would most survivors. Basically, he was aroused and down to clown: you weren't but you just thought you'd go along with it for the experience, right? But by the time it gets to the point where you can't carry through with an act, or you want to vomit... you are no longer consenting to what's going on. That's when it should've stopped, and the fact that it carried on beyond that point turns it into an assault (even if it wasn't deliberate, the psychological scars are the same). That would explain why this has been playing on your mind for more than a year.

I urge you to seek out a rape crisis centre in your vicinity and ask to speak to one of their counsellors. You have a lot of unresolved feelings about this assault, and working through them will help you move forwards.

Exactly what I was trying to say.
Sometimes I get a little shy about saying that it´s okay for you to get help, and that you don´t have to deal with this on your own.

[Kylo]

HOLD UP.

From the description this does not sound like the poster was raped or sexually assaulted against their will.

'Normal sex' as opposed to rape is a result of mutual escalation - one party escalates, the other responds by escalating also, instead of de-escalating, i.e. by moving away, saying no, asking the other to stop, etc.

"Rape" or "sexual assault" is a result of one party forcing themselves upon another, being the only escalator or threatening violence or some other coercive action to force the other person to escalate. Does the OP claim this happened?

He started asking questions about surgery and so forth, what was going on down "there". And I began to ask him some questions as well- and we started talking about male genitalia functions and so forth.

Both parties seemed curious, both asking questions and reciprocating - escalating. If the poster was not happy with this they had the opportunity to ask for the conversation to stop, I assume. No mention of the guy threatening or being coercive.

while talking about nuts he pulled his out and starting to point certain things out. I actually touched them asking " why are ur nuts this or that".

Again the OP if was uncomfortable with this could have said put them away but instead touched them and asked questions. This is escalating the situation, not de-escalating it. 

So next thing I know, there was attempt at me giving him oral. I just physically couldnt make myself do it for long.it felt like my brain wiring wasn't working with the image I was seeing. so then it switched to him using his fingers to do things to me. It was weird, I couldn't really feel his fingers, like my genitals didn't have feeling. Then eventually we started to roll around and thats when we technically "did it". The feeling is nothing like i would have imagined it to be.

This does not sound like rape but a typical scenario in which someone experiments. Not being totally into it and having doubts does not mean the guy assaulted him or raped him. At any point he could have said no and walked away. And regretting you did have sex with somebody you chose to continue participating with does not equal rape/assault either. It means you made a bad decision.

There are specific definitions of rape and the OP - if I have right from their description - was certainly not raped and had every opportunity not to partake. Telling the OP they were raped or assaulted when we know little about this situation from a single post on a forum is potentially very damaging both to the OP and the other person involved.

Everyone needs to recognize their own agency in a situation and that you CAN say no. Just because you didn't say no and encouraged them did not mean the other person is to blame. People are not mind readers, and if you start touching them and asking them questions I'd suggest in most situations most people will take that as an encouragement rather than a repulsion.

My first relationship happened as a result of me not saying no when I should have. He was a friend, I wasn't attracted to him, and I felt like it was easier to say yes than no. Did he rape and sexually assault me? No, he did not. It would be absolutely ridiculous for me to accuse him of anything other than following my lead. At ANY point I could have said no, or this is over. I did not for some time. None of that was my boyfriend's fault because I did nothing whatsoever to communicate my displeasure. 

Believing oneself a victim of a sexual assault because you yourself knew you should have not encouraged, or because you didn't like it is not a good thing. I understand not being able to say no because you've never been in a situation like that before, but that isn't other people's wrongdoing, especially if you encourage them. One must learn to say no and give clear indicators if you do not want to go further. And there is of course always the first time when you do not know whether something is good or bad because you have yet to experience it or are in the process of experiencing it, so you cannot make a judgement and reaction until it has happened and you have processed it. If you then feel bad and that you shouldn't have done it - well now you know for next time, but you can hardly know until you know, nor expect anyone else to know how you were going to feel.

I would encourage you not to feel like a victim from a less than stellar experience, but rather to feel like you gained knowledge and are now better prepared to know what you do and do not want. And also not to feel shame. In the past I was extremely hung up on sex - before I had had it - and while I do still think sex is basically less than fun from my own perspective, I've come to a much better understanding and peace with what it is. The feeling passes. Particularly if you go and seek out somebody you do want to do things with. 

[November Fox]

I think he can decide for himself what it was. I don´t think it helps if we try to exactly define the situation for him - telling him exactly what we think it was, won´t help anybody.

If he has trouble processing it, then it won´t hurt him to reach out, rather than just forcing himself through it and continuining to feel guilt and having nightmares. We don´t know what he felt because we weren´t there, period.

In situations like it it does not hurt to carefully consider that it could affect someone a great deal. If it didn´t, then that´s great, but not for us to decide. I think that´s what FTMDiaries meant and that´s also what I mean.

[Schmuckle]

Thanks a lot for the responses guys. I'd just like to clarify that I agree that I have an old fashion view of human sexuality (I actually would blow human sexuality up if it were a country as it is such a frustrating thing for me). When it comes to sex I am very close minded. I think this may have to do with transitioning when I did. When it comes to sex my rule has simply been To go with my instincts and they are definately old fashioned ones. And you also have to keep in mind that I know absolutely ->-bleeped-<- about sexual situations to begin with, as I've never had one before this. So I'm having a hard time even analyzing it! It's also funny because around the same time this happened I began to think- maybe there is something wrong with the way I see sexuality. Maybe I really am so closed minded and that's why I've never been with a girl. Maybe I should "let my wall down".

In terms of whether or not I was sexually assaulting I really appreciate the concern. However, I did what I did through consent. I definitely wasn't into it and it was bizarre but it wasn't an assault. I think it was me not thinking and just doing it on a whim. There were plenty of times to stop the situation but I didnt. I even said to myself " I'm going to regret this but whatever"- its like i delibrately made a decsion to do something id always been against in about three seconds.that's how quick I felt the situation became one that I would consider sexual.

Maybe it's tough to tease out if it was consentual because my head was too far up my own ass making a stupid decision. Haha

[November Fox]

Well we all have differing opinions. I just hope you´ll be okay, regardless of what kind of labels we stick on you. 

In my honest opinion (but don´t take this as universal law), even if you make a decision that you regret, it´s okay to feel messed up because of it later. As you said: not every decision is exactly very well thought through, and in a situation like that people do have a tendency to make spur-of-the-moment decisions.

My advice is to not be mega hard on yourself considering the fact that you did decide to go for it. Like T.K.G.W said, maybe you can learn from it. If it does continue to bother you to the point of feeling messed up and having nightmares, please consider seeking help.

But if you can sail through this one and be allright, all the more kudos to you.

[green27]

I am going to agree that this isn't a "assault" scenario, at the same time the OP seems to be experiencing a lot of the feelings that one might feel after being assaulted, so perhaps talking to a rape counselor might help.

If it makes you feel any better, gay guys are attracted to guys, (not penises). Plain and simple. Whether they are a feminine guy, a masculine guy, or a transguy. Butch lesbians are pretty masculine, but you don't see gay guys hooking up with them because they aren't men. Gay guys and transguys hook up all the time. The fact that a gay man was willing to engage with you sexually means that he saw you as a man, which is actually kind of a compliment because gay guys are generally picky.

Being on the receiving end of penetrative sex certainly doesn't make you a woman. I know plenty or big, rough, manly men who identify as power bottoms (gay men who are only interested in receiving penetrative sex, not giving it). I don't think you're homophobic, because obviously your gay friend didn't feel awkward around you. But you seem to have very heteronormative preconceptions about sex and gender roles. That's not a bad thing if you are a straight guy, but when you have experiences outside of your heterosexuality you're going to experience some confusion.

I am coming at this from a much different perspective because I am a gay transguy and I identify as a power bottom. I regularly engage in penetrative sex with gay men. I would probably feel weird if I engaged in penetrative sex with a straight guy, but I have never once felt anything less than super manly when engaging in sex with other gay men. I typically don't use my "front" but I have had partners that were curious and I have done it on a few occasions without any distress on my part.

Your first time is always awkward, especially if it didn't happen how you thought it would. If you aren't ready to have sex yet, then that's no big deal. There are a lot of people who don't have sex until well into their late 20s and 30s.

[Kylo]

Thanks a lot for the responses guys. I'd just like to clarify that I agree that I have an old fashion view of human sexuality (I actually would blow human sexuality up if it were a country as it is such a frustrating thing for me). When it comes to sex I am very close minded. I think this may have to do with transitioning when I did. When it comes to sex my rule has simply been To go with my instincts and they are definately old fashioned ones. And you also have to keep in mind that I know absolutely ->-bleeped-<- about sexual situations to begin with, as I've never had one before this. So I'm having a hard time even analyzing it! It's also funny because around the same time this happened I began to think- maybe there is something wrong with the way I see sexuality. Maybe I really am so closed minded and that's why I've never been with a girl. Maybe I should "let my wall down".

In terms of whether or not I was sexually assaulting I really appreciate the concern. However, I did what I did through consent. I definitely wasn't into it and it was bizarre but it wasn't an assault. I think it was me not thinking and just doing it on a whim. There were plenty of times to stop the situation but I didnt. I even said to myself " I'm going to regret this but whatever"- its like i delibrately made a decsion to do something id always been against in about three seconds.that's how quick I felt the situation became one that I would consider sexual.

Maybe it's tough to tease out if it was consentual because my head was too far up my own ass making a stupid decision. Haha

Well I remember the exact thoughts going through my head 15 yrs back when I decided to "go out" with that friend even though I wasn't remotely attracted and let him do whatever it was he wanted to try out. I was angry at my own life because I knew I wasn't going to have any normal relationship experiences unless I just tried them, even though I was totally not into it... felt I was probably going to spend the rest of my life in a haze of basement dwelling loneliness and anxiety. I thought pretty much the exact same thing: "I suppose I'll look back on this and think I was an idiot but whatever" but I knew why I was making the decision... because FML, basically. 

I've had a few moments like that before and they usually come with a spate of bad and short-sighted choices but they're kind of understandable given how I felt (and still feel) about some aspects of life.

So it's not unusual to make these kinds of choices in the moment. Plenty of people do, and you certainly shouldn't beat yourself up over them or anything. My brain gives me sex nightmares all the time, but just because it never figured out how to make the act pleasurable I guess. It wants it, but it hates it for various reasons I suppose... so it invents some pretty screwed up and confused dreams which I can only say I'm happy to wake up from and forget about. In the end I do think the best thing is not to rush into relationships but tread carefully and set about making the kind of life you want with the kind of person you're comfortable with. Brains eventually get used to better situations and move on from the old ones.

[Devlyn]

Hi Schmuckle, welcome to Susan's Place! Here are some helpful links about the site.

Things that you should read

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
Reputation rules	News posting & quoting guidelines	Photo, avatars, & signature images policy

I'm going to ask you to please tone down your language, we have some very young members using the site. See you around!

Hugs, Devlyn

[Saison Marguerite]

Hi Schmuckle,

My boyfriend is transgender, just a few years older than you, and I know that he has the same views about sexuality and his genitals. He much like you is extremely guarded about his transgender status, and he has a lot of walls up until he has his lower surgery. So I asked him what he thought of this situation and we talked about it a bit to figure out what may have happened.

I imagine that when your friend punched you and asked where your balls were, you felt very frightened and panicked, given how important your stealth status is to you. My boyfriend, when he was outed at his old job, stopped being himself for a while and he did not act in the way I am used to. He even did something that landed him in a psychiatric ward because he was so distressed (he is fine now). And sometimes when things happen that are emotionally shocking or upsetting, people do things that they normally would not do. What you describe feeling int hat situation (no anxiety, no desire, no thoughts, and such) describes the experience of dissociation. Everyone experiences it to one degree or another, it is when you're not entirely present, you are running on auto-pilot. Have you ever been driving home and you get lost in thought, then look up to realize somehow you drove home without really being fully aware of it? It is like that, but in cases that are emotional, you're becoming detached from yourself and your normal thought processes as a way of coping with stress.

So it sounds like you became very panicked when confronted with that question. And if I am perfectly honest, I feel like it made you feel very vulnerable and exposed. And as a result, you dissociated - which is a totally normal and human response to stress. And then because of this you made decisions on auto-pilot, things you normally would not consider, things that are not in line with how you feel about yourself, your body, your sexuality.

Your feelings about this situation are perfectly valid. Some people are OK with being out, some people are OK with using the genitals they were born with, and I think that is fine and does not invalidate them. But some people, like my boyfriend, experience gender dysphoria to a more crippling degree, and are not able to be happy with their current situation, and do not identify with their transition on a personal or social level. Given that you were put in a situation where you felt like you were "found out" after not having to deal with this, it's understandable that you would be in a compromised emotional state, and make decisions you would not normally make.

I don't know what more I can say on this issue, but I wanted to let you know that I don't think this experience reflects upon you as a man. It sounds like this is a decision that was made in a compromised emotional state, which is something that can happen to ANYONE. I imagine this is hard for you to process, and it is fully understandable with how you feel about your body and your situation. It's OK to have some rough feelings on this, but again, try not to let it define you or make you question how you feel about who you are.

[Schmuckle]

Thank you so much! Such great feedback!!

[blink]

I am ashamed  to say that I have my whole life had a very deep prejudice towards ftms who have had sex with a guy- even before they transitioned.I have always felt that no true man could ever do such a thing.I apologize if this hurts people feelings)And yet in the past couple years my fantasies and desires to be with a woman, not just sexually but also emotionally, have left me at times feeling that I am trapped and going to where. I think they have effected me in some, shall I say...completely unexpected ways.

As people with a widely misunderstood medical condition, which is not detectable in the same way many medical conditions are - we don't come back from the doctor's office with a definitive test result that says "You test positive for transsexuality" - it's easy to want to latch onto something as Proof. Especially "Proof" that we are who we have concluded, after long and careful thought, that we are. Proof in the face of all the ignorance we encounter from people with oversimplified understandings of biology.

Consciously or unconsciously, maybe you were holding on to not doing certain sex acts as Proof You Are A Man. But here's the thing. That was never proof. You have not lost your proof. You don't lose your Man Card over this. Doing or not doing certain things in bed doesn't prove one way or another if you're a man. Try a little thought experiment with me here.
If brain transplants were a thing, and a cis guy's brain got somehow plopped into a mismatched body, that would be an artificially induced case of transsexuality. A trans man. Now say for whatever reason he can't manage to get put back in the right "model" of meat suit, but can afford some modifications (medical transition but can't afford bottom surgery) to make things more comfortable for himself.

This hypothetical once-cis man whose brain was hypothetically, cruelly plopped into the wrong body could, hypothetically, experiment as you did. It's understandable one might experiment in such a situation - particularly in the long term - out of curiosity, desperation, frustration, etc. Add in the average male sex drive and it's understandable a man might decide to try what is available to him. He might decide the physical pleasure outweighed the negative psychological impact. Or maybe not, and he wouldn't do it again. Or maybe he'd never try it. It's a personal choice, not a diagnostic tool.

It would not somehow alter his brain into being less male. Just as it does not alter yours into being less male. The one and only thing that makes you a man is your brain and that's not changeable, otherwise the medical treatment for transsexuality would be very different. If you feel the need for Proof to latch onto, consider all the treatment you've undergone to transition. If you had been a woman misdiagnosed as a trans man, top surgery and T HRT would have quite a negative impact on your quality of life rather than a positive one. Women tend to be upset about growing facial hair, etc.

Talking to a professional, if that's an option for you, sounds like a good idea given how much this is still troubling you.

[Schmuckle]

What great insight. I think you may have hit a nerve.

After all, I know better than to say that a trans guy who has had sex with a man is not a man. I'm not that kind of person. I'm an understanding person. That's weak and petty reasoning. But my feelings...that's where it came from.

[blink]

What great insight. I think you may have hit a nerve.

After all, I know better than to say that a trans guy who has had sex with a man is not a man. I'm not that kind of person. I'm an understanding person. That's weak and petty reasoning. But my feelings...that's where it came from.

Nobody wants to think of themselves as prejudiced, so it's not going to feel good to admit it. But it is good to admit it and start working to overcome it. Prejudices come from weird places and affect our thinking in weird ways. I think most, if not all, prejudice comes from us trying to defend ourselves in some way, but it doesn't really work. It just causes more problems.

I was raised by a self-proclaimed "man-hating" mother. In my mother's defense, she's been extremely supportive of her trans son and tries to keep her anti-men commentary to a minimum now when speaking to me. She's human and has her own problems, and given what she's been through in life I find her bias against men, uh, understandable. Not correct, prejudice is prejudice, but understandable where she's coming from and I don't hold it against her or take it personally. There's only so much somebody can be hurt before it messes them up in ways that are hard to fix, and it spills over onto other people.

Due to that family situation, I grew up with some amount of prejudice towards other men. While being incredibly jealous of male bodies. And feeling ashamed of some of my own so-called "typical male" thinking. Caused me a lot of confusion growing up. Sure didn't make me keen to tell her about it when I'd realized what was wrong with me my whole life and found there was a treatment for it. But, like I said, she's been very supportive. Despite her bias. People can get over their prejudices, at least somewhat.

[Kylo]

What great insight. I think you may have hit a nerve.

After all, I know better than to say that a trans guy who has had sex with a man is not a man. I'm not that kind of person. I'm an understanding person. That's weak and petty reasoning. But my feelings...that's where it came from.

There's also the issue of gay ftms - are they not also men? Or gay cis men... are they not men? 

I know a lot of cis gay men and some of them struggle with the idea that being gay somehow compromises somebody's masculinity down the line; some think of themselves as sinful or just plain screwed up, despite however hard I may argue these are irrational beliefs or the beliefs of others projected onto them. Some have a deep seated sense of wrongness because to them male and female is a natural fit... male and male isn't and being with another male causes them issues of dealing with who is supposed to be 'submissive'. However I could never understand this view (it must be some deep seated gut/emotional thing I suppose) since I've always felt to a certain degree outside of the experience of 'normal' male and female.

In my view you should be able to try anything at all with a "good" partner, and not feel like you need to whip yourself afterward. Masculinity is something that resides in my heart, and doesn't have to be proven or affirmed by way of others. I think that's why I'm comparatively laid back about the issue of my transness and its trappings. What's inside is more important that what's outside. What's personal is much more important than compliments, or gossip or the opinions of passers by. And so on. If you work on establishing beyond doubt your inner identity, such things should have less of an effect on you.

[Schmuckle]

Blink, you beleive in male and female brains? Have you researched this a lot? I don't do much reading on the topic. I just know its very controversial. Would love for it to be true, lol.

[Devlyn]

Schmuckle, gender is between the ears. 

Hugs, Devlyn