Gender change as a body mod

[RedJack]

"But, getting back to the original topic, with a modification like this, the largest question is what to do about the testes, and what if any are the dangers of retaining them internally. I would assume that to a degree recovery is likely easier, since there'd be slightly less modifications, particularly in the area of hormones. I'm sure any other dangers or complications in this kind of surgery are well covered on the board as far as the normal choices go."

I agree more acceptance breeds more demand --> more training --> more doctors --> a safer more cost effective surgery.

Re: your question about retaining the testes internally.  It is an interesting question, but sadly one most people here are unable to accurately answer.  As I am not a medical professional; I can only theorize.  I would assume retaining the testes is probably the safer way to do it as you wouldn't have to take HRT for the remainder of your life, but then there is the question of <i> where? </i>

That might not be as difficult as it seems, look at hermaphrodites who may have any combination of ovaries and testes located where the ovaries are in a female, that suggests that there is space for them, or at least one, hence the idea.

[Caroline]

"But, getting back to the original topic, with a modification like this, the largest question is what to do about the testes, and what if any are the dangers of retaining them internally. I would assume that to a degree recovery is likely easier, since there'd be slightly less modifications, particularly in the area of hormones. I'm sure any other dangers or complications in this kind of surgery are well covered on the board as far as the normal choices go."

On Anne Lawrence's website in the Vaginoplasty Results section there's a result by Dr Meltzer where the testes were preserved.  (Following link is GRAPHIC and NOT SAFE FOR WORK) http://www.annelawrence.com/meltzer1297.html.  Meltzer would require the standard transition path and therapists letters before performing surgery, I've never heard of anybody else doing such an operation but that doesn't mean it hasn't happened.

[katia]

My body is my choice.  That's the reason I'm having my hands and feet amputated next week.  >

oh oh i want to chop off my fingers too.  that's going to be a terrific look.  yeah! could you be so kind to recommend me to your butcher surgeon....so that i can report him.  >

[RedJack]

My body is my choice.  That's the reason I'm having my hands and feet amputated next week.  >

oh oh i want to chop off my fingers too.  that's going to be a terrific look.  yeah! could you be so kind to recommend me to your butcher surgeon....so that i can report him.  >

Snickers, "Don't say that too loud, with some of the weird modifications people do, someone might take a liking to that idea."

[Lisbeth]

Oh I'm into body modification.  I got my ears pierced.  And I cut my finger and toe nails.  Hair, too, but not too often.

[Butterfly]

My body is my choice.  That's the reason I'm having my hands and feet amputated next week.  >

oh oh i want to chop off my fingers too.  that's going to be a terrific look.  yeah! could you be so kind to recommend me to your butcher surgeon....so that i can report him.  >

I don't think he's taking new victims patients but you could try calling him.  His name is Dr. Jack Ripper.  His toll free # 1800-DISMEMBERME  You can also find more information about him on the bloody yellow pages. ~laugh~ >

[Lisbeth]

I don't think he's taking new victims patients but you could try calling him.  His name is Dr. Jack Ripper.  His toll free # 1800-DISMEMBERME  You can also find more information about him on the bloody yellow pages. ~laugh~ >

It's not nearly as funny as you think.  Ever hear of "Doctor Butcher" John Brown?  He made his name by making a butchered mess of transsexuals.  Later he expanded into "helping" people with amputation fetishes.

[Kate]

It's not nearly as funny as you think.  Ever hear of "Doctor Butcher" John Brown?  He made his name by making a butchered mess of transsexuals.  Later he expanded into "helping" people with amputation fetishes.

Reminds me of a guy around here, somewhere in Pennsylvania, who would perform Orchis on anyone in his home for free... because he was turned on by castrating "men."

Scary thing was, a number of people on an email list I belonged to went to see him, and pretty much everyone on the list cheered them on with "You GO girl!" support. I pointed out it was reckless and stupid, and was promptly skewered by everyone for not being "supportive."

~Kate~

[Butterfly]

I don't think he's taking new victims patients but you could try calling him.  His name is Dr. Jack Ripper.  His toll free # 1800-DISMEMBERME  You can also find more information about him on the bloody yellow pages. ~laugh~ >

It's not nearly as funny as you think.  Ever hear of "Doctor Butcher" John Brown?  He made his name by making a butchered mess of transsexuals.  Later he expanded into "helping" people with amputation fetishes.

That was exactly my point.  That people are treating their amputation fetishes as something ordinary and normal.

[Jaycie]

You know,  the amount of hypocritical and condescending judgmentalness here is more than a little sickening. Nowhere has it been mentioned in the original post that the motivation was sexual or a fetish of any kind. It smells exactly the same as those who like to label TS-identified people as perverts or worse.

Some here whine and complain that normal people aren't accepting when they're just as loath to give out that same acceptance and tolerance.

Who are any of you to determine what is or is not 'normal'?

If you can manage to answer that question without being completely hypocritical then you might see what the real problem is here.

[Butterfly]

You know,  the amount of hypocritical and condescending judgmentalness here is more than a little sickening. Nowhere has it been mentioned in the original post that the motivation was sexual or a fetish of any kind. It smells exactly the same as those who like to label TS-identified people as perverts or worse.

Some here whine and complain that normal people aren't accepting when they're just as loath to give out that same acceptance and tolerance.

Who are any of you to determine what is or is not 'normal'?

If you can manage to answer that question without being completely hypocritical then you might see what the real problem is here.

I may be reading things wrong then:

MMm, I may be on the cutting edge and the first one, but I suspect that this question will arise as time goes on. Sex is changing, porn is no longer vanilla, the internet has certainly opened people's eyes to what's out there, what the other choices are. Right now radical body mods are thins like penile splitting, tongue splitting, or nullification. All of these are done for fun, sexual pleasure, or for other rather casual reasons. Breast enhancement is no longer considered odd, yet go back what, 30 years ago? It would've been a radical mod now. I think ideas such as mine will become more mainstream with two simple and connected changes, one is the acceptance of one to choose their gender, and with that acceptance will become a greater availability of the surgery. Right, wrong or indifferent, one of two ages is coming, a dark age thanks to the religious right or an age of greater enlightenment (not sure I'd go that far), and if its the latter, I suspect that like many things, it'll become hip to make changes like this, starting like tattoos did with a small niche community and growing. While this is perhaps not quite the right place for this question, its likely the only place to turn in the quest to sate my curiosity about the viability of it.

Jaycie, you want to support people cutting their bodies to pieces?, fine do it.  This is not the place for it.  This is a support site for the TG community to deal with gender issues and besides this thread was posted in the MTF section so it's located in the wrong place.  Can some of the moderators move it somewhere else?

While this is perhaps not quite the right place for this question

It is in the wrong place.  Maybe the sexuality section.  Dunno.

[cindybc]

Hi Jaycie
You are quite right. Even though self mutilation disgusts me I would not refuse to go to one who was in need of support.

Fortunately the only people with self mutilation I have had the experience of working with as a Social Worker for twenty years were those that cut themselves, usually the wrist area with a sharp object. I have never refused anyone help whether they be black white purple and blue pink or what religion they believed in.

Getting up in the middle of the night to go extricate a severely beat up mom with little ones in tow. Now I may not agree with self mutilation but it would not deter me from going to their aid if needed be.   

Some here whine and complain that people aren't accepting when they're just as loath to give out that same acceptance and tolerance

Cindy

[Alison]

I moved it to health, because MtF wasn't the right place for this, but Sexuality isn't the right place either.

[Jaycie]

Jaycie, you want to support people cutting their bodies to pieces?, fine do it.  This is not the place for it.  This is a support site for the TG community to deal with gender issues and besides this thread was posted in the MTF section so it's located in the wrong place.  Can some of the moderators move it somewhere else?

If you'd really like for me to point out the obvious,  SRS/GRS IS in many cases cutting a healthy body 'to pieces'. Now with that little detail out of the way i can say that yes,  i want to support people cutting their bodies to pieces in ways that they see fit without throwing down pointless and quite often factless judgments about them. People are going to do what people want to do. Making sure there are safe and effective ways to achieve those goals would be a better and more productive aim for all involved.

It is in the wrong place.  Maybe the sexuality section.  Dunno.

Again,  trying to assign something as sexual in nature without a rational basis to do so stinks of trying to minimize it into just a perversion which is a hypocritical act at best.

You are quite right. Even though self mutilation disgusts me I would not refuse to go to one who was in need of support.

On this point,  why bother labeling it as 'self mutilation'?  That type of wording just marginalizes the idea in a different way but still in a way that isn't exactly productive. Self mutilation can be a quite subjective thing sometimes.

[RedJack]

Hmmm, I will agree that this thread doesn't really fit this forum, but then I doubt it really fits anywhere, at least as far as looking for information on the difficulties and dangers of doing this, but of any place one could pic, and transgendered forum is probably the best, its the place most likely to have specific knowledge of the risks one would face in this, at least knowledge that's not going to be 'I heard...'." As to the reason, right now curiosity, I'll honestly admit that I haven't seriously reviewed my motivation yet, more important to me right now is to consider can it be done, what are the risks, and is there anyone who can do it. If the answer to any of those makes it impossible, then motivation is not really important, now is it? After finding that out, then we can decide whether we really want to, and why, no?

[Alison]

Hmmm, I will agree that this thread doesn't really fit this forum, but then I doubt it really fits anywhere, at least as far as looking for information on the difficulties and dangers of doing this, but of any place one could pic, and transgendered forum is probably the best, its the place most likely to have specific knowledge of the risks one would face in this, at least knowledge that's not going to be 'I heard...'." As to the reason, right now curiosity, I'll honestly admit that I haven't seriously reviewed my motivation yet, more important to me right now is to consider can it be done, what are the risks, and is there anyone who can do it. If the answer to any of those makes it impossible, then motivation is not really important, now is it? After finding that out, then we can decide whether we really want to, and why, no?

There isn't a specific forum that this topic fits in sadly.  The best forum I can figure going to your original topic, it's a health question.

Can it be done?  Sure I really don't see why it couldn't be physically possible.  The risks and such is where I'm not sure.. but this forum is a good place for that discussion

[Butterfly]

If you'd really like for me to point out the obvious,  SRS/GRS IS in many cases cutting a healthy body 'to pieces'.

Coming from someone who ISN'T TS, your statement doesn't surprise me at all.  A person who is not TS would need to be born again, have severe GID, live their lives in the wrong body in order to understand that GRS is not what you implied, so I don't blame you for thinking as you do.

[Caroline]

If you'd really like for me to point out the obvious,  SRS/GRS IS in many cases cutting a healthy body 'to pieces'.

Coming from someone who ISN'T TS, your statement doesn't surprise me at all.  A person who is not TS would need to be born again, have severe GID, live their lives in the wrong body in order to understand that GRS is not what you implied, so I don't blame you for thinking as you do.

Oops.  You know what they say about 'assume'...

As another person who has GID of sufficient severity to justify obtaining SRS I second what Jaycie said. 

Most non-IS m2fs have perfectly healthy male bodies.  Fixing a screw-up in the brain by screwing up the body in a matching way is a body modification.  I NEED to pursue this surgery to deal with my GID, but it doesn't change what it is.

[Jaycie]

Coming from someone who ISN'T TS, your statement doesn't surprise me at all.  A person who is not TS would need to be born again, have severe GID, live their lives in the wrong body in order to understand that GRS is not what you implied, so I don't blame you for thinking as you do.

Wow...  So,  for your next trick will you tell me who my biological mother's parents really are since you seem to know so much about me that i haven't said? I mean if you're that adept at knowing things you haven't been told then you must be able to use those abilities further.  ^_~

Back to the actual point though. Your assumption isn't exactly accurate either,  depending on your definition of the term TS that is. Seeing as that i do plan on SRS in the future and still do hold to my previous statements. 

Oh, and one last thing.  What i am or even what i'm not isn't exactly the topic of this thread. So, the sooner back to the original topic the better.  Thanks.  ^_~

[Dennis]

Back to the original topic, I would say the risk would be infertility. Testes don't function well in higher temperatures.

And, for the record, I agree with Alison, Andra, Jaycie and others who've said that there is an awful lot of judgement happening here, especially considering our own marginalized status. I also don't see that allowing body modders to do whatever they want has an impact on us at all.

Dennis