First steps

[Just_M]

Hi everyone! What a lovely community of people you have here. Thank you for making me feel so welcome!
As I wrote a couple of days ago, I'm trying to realize if I'm trans (FTM) or not. So I'm trying to try new things, like not shaving armpits and legs (even though it's summer in my country and it's hard hide it!). And I'm also talking with one of my best friends. But now I have two new questions/problems:
1) I told my male best friend that I normally didn't feel girly or feminine, that I didn't think that being a woman fit me. I thought he was going to be more understanding but his answer was something like: "But you're not masculine, all I see is a woman". Lovely, right? Is this just gaslighting, is he in denial or am I just not trans? And was it like for you to come out to your friends?
2) Being as hairy as I can (which it's hard, since I'm rather hairless), I have to get back to work next week! And I'm a teacher! I don't know how my boss, coworkers or students are going to feel if they see I don't shave or if I start to dress different than usual... How was it for you when you started to present yourself at work as more masculine or more femenine?
I'm looking forward to reading your replies, so please reply     Hugs!

[FTMax]

Hi there, and welcome!

I have only had a few folks tell me they didn't understand why I was transitioning, and it was never about me personally or my level of masculinity/femininity, it was because they didn't agree with transition as a solution to dysphoria. They mistaken believe that there are mental health solutions. I would explain to your friend that looking a certain way on the outside doesn't mean that's how things are on the inside.

As for clothing and not shaving, are you required to wear a skirt/dress in your position? Depending on where you're from and what kind of community you live in, I could understand that might be a requirement. If you're allowed to wear pants, I would wear pants and not make a big deal out of the switch. If someone asks you about it, just make something up - "Oh, I was riding my bike last week and fell, now I've got a huge gash on my leg and I didn't want to make anyone squeamish." They'll be satisfied with the answer, and several weeks later when you're still wearing pants, they'll have forgotten the conversation entirely and you wearing pants will be the norm.

Good luck!

[Kanzaki]

Hi there and welcome. I don't know if I'll be of any help, but I do have a few comments to make.

I'm trying to try new things, like not shaving armpits and legs (even though it's summer in my country and it's hard hide it!).

While it's probably not exactly the way you meant it, you don't necessarily need to shave to be a man. I personally shave my armpits because I simply don't like the hair, and I have a lot of male friends (cis) who do the same thing. I even know a few (again, cis) guys who shave their legs. You sound like you're embarrassed to not shave since you're talking about trying to cover it up, but keep in mind that you shouldn't feel pressured to not shave (even though it could in a way help with self discovery).

I told my male best friend that I normally didn't feel girly or feminine, that I didn't think that being a woman fit me. I thought he was going to be more understanding but his answer was something like: "But you're not masculine, all I see is a woman". Lovely, right? Is this just gaslighting, is he in denial or am I just not trans? And was it like for you to come out to your friends?

That's probably a natural reaction to you saying that. Most people are unaware of trans people, and women are often self conscious about themselves (from what I've seen). An example would be my teacher today, who said the girls in my class are all so pretty. She then realized what she said, and quickly added something about me being the "sporty" type but still pretty. Most people just aren't aware of such things. That being said, for all I know, he could've meant it differently. But as I said, that first example was the impression I got. The fact that he would say something like that definitely does not mean you're in denial or that you're not trans. Nobody but you can really know how you feel.

You could somewhat say I'm still in the coming-out stage, though my friends who know so far took it well and with no surprise. I had been slowly changing how I dress for a while, and never really acted feminine in the first place (in my opinion, anyways). Both that, and the fact that they're pretty open minded and accepting helped.

I don't know how my boss, coworkers or students are going to feel if they see I don't shave or if I start to dress different than usual... How was it for you when you started to present yourself at work as more masculine or more femenine?

For the shaving, as I said, don't force yourself. Go with what feels right. As for dressing, make it a gradual change. Don't suddenly jump from pink skirts and frilly dresses to ultra masculine. That way, they're less prone to notice it and ask questions. People's tastes change over time. But always remember that your safety is important. It might be a harsh thing to say, but if you think you could be in any danger, don't do it.

To be honest, I don't really even remember. I went from regular jeans and T-shirts and these loose tank top-like things (not even sure what they were) to jeans and plaid/checkered shirts (to this day, I still cannot be bothered to find out the difference), which then over time shifted to what I wear now. It was a very gradual change which not even I really noticed much. It probably helps that I was sort of a shut-in and didn't really go anywhere during part of that time though.

[Peep]

You could mention to people that looking feminine isn't the point when you feel masculine. If trans guys looked like guys from day one... there would be no need to transition? lol

I was called boyish and 'sporty' (which is hilarious because I'm about as active as a glacier) right up til the moment I came out, then suddenly I was Glinda the Good Witch from the wizard of Oz. Like people could suddenly see all these "girl" sparklies hanging around me that weren't there before! I'm trying to power through it.

[veniamviam]

I told my male best friend that I normally didn't feel girly or feminine, that I didn't think that being a woman fit me. I thought he was going to be more understanding but his answer was something like: "But you're not masculine, all I see is a woman". Lovely, right? Is this just gaslighting, is he in denial or am I just not trans? And was it like for you to come out to your friends?

I don't think it's gaslighting, I think he's just not understanding what you're telling him. Like Kanzaki said, he probably just isn't very aware of transness as a thing and misunderstood. From what I'm reading here, it looks like he took you telling him those things as "I don't feel like I'm enough of a woman and I'm insecure about that," so he tried to reassure you. It's also perfectly possible he's just in denial, though--him saying he sees a woman has nothing to do with whether you're trans or not. Peep said it best--not looking masculine doesn't mean you're not feeling masculine, or there'd be no need to transition since you'd already be there :p

If you find that you prefer shaving to not shaving, that also doesn't mean you're "really a woman." Plenty of cis men shave, it's all a matter of personal preference. Women just get a weird amount of social pressure to shave. 

I'm with the others on your manner of dress, too. Go slow, and everyone else is less likely to notice.

[Peep]

Yeah the shaving thing is so arbitrary, I wouldn't worry about it. there's loads of cis women that never shave anywhere and that doesn't make them men or trans men. It should work in reverse too. However if not shaving makes you feel male, and not like a hairy girl, that's great too :D

[DiamondBladee]

Yeah the shaving thing is so arbitrary, I wouldn't worry about it. there's loads of cis women that never shave anywhere and that doesn't make them men or trans men. It should work in reverse too. However if not shaving makes you feel male, and not like a hairy girl, that's great too

A note on this, my Dad shaves...  And he is a body builder!  Many boys on the swim team and the football team shave too at my high school.  Its not so uncommon

[Just_M]

Thank you guys for all your answers!! It seems we have a community of men that love to shave! Hahaha
I'm still experimenting with my policy of not shaving, but my hair barely grows so I'm patiently waiting.
Peep, I loved the Glinda the Witch thing! We must be siblings 'cause it's like my mom was saying that. She is the type of mother that wants a daughter at all costs... Freud would be rich if he had her and me as patients!
Mmmm I want to keep exploring this male/masculine side I put aside for so long. I love men's clothes more than women's, but the problem is that I'm too short and tiny (1.56 mts, 5.11 feet) and men clothes are huge!!
If you don't mind I have two more questions, the beginner-type:
- If I was to try testosterone for one or two months to see how I feel, what are the changes I will face? And can I hide them so people won't notice?
- To post-op (bottom surgery) men, do you like the outcome? Do you feel pleasure as if it was naturally yours from day one? It's going to sound silly but I always wondered what it was to have a penis (Freud, here I go!) so now that I'm gathering more info I'm just trying to learn what are the odds for such transformation. Although it scares me out and Google images don't make it any better and I don't know any local FTM I can talk to.
Alright, that's all for now! I really, really, really appreciate your answers!
And sorry again for my bad English!
XO

[FTMax]

I generally don't advise people to try T unless they're ready for all the potential changes. But it is basically the only stage of medical transition that you can stop if you realize it isn't for you. Keep in mind though, that a lot of the effects of T are not reversible. So even if you decide to stop if it's not for you, you may not be able to get rid of those changes.

YMMV, but typically most people see at least a small voice drop, body hair filling in, and downstairs growth in the first few months. People would really only notice your voice changing, and you could pass it off as a cold. Mentally, you will probably have more energy, a greater appetite, and have an increase in sex drive. But it's different for everyone. While reading about other people's experiences may be helpful, it may or may not reflect what your experience is like.

In regards to your second question, we don't have a lot of active post-bottom surgery guys here currently. I do talk to a lot of guys on other support groups specifically for bottom surgery, and am planning to have mine done this year. General consensus is that it does feel like "yours" (at least as far as any of us would know), though it may take time for nerves to reconnect or sensation to fully return given the surgical trauma.

[Just_M]

Omg! I thought T was more innocent! Because I saw a video from a gender therapist from this or another forum (I don't remember) and she was saying that people could try hormones for a few months so as to see how they felt. Maybe she was talking about estrogens...

[Dena]

Estrogen acts slower and other that breast growth, it generally makes one look younger. T on the other hand is very effective and causes major changes in a short period of time. I have spent thousands of dollars undoing the effects of T. It is a personal decision but you should be pretty sure you will be comfortable with the changes before starting T.

There are hormone blockers that might be tried and could make you feel more comfortable with yourself. They are not used with T but they exist for people going both directions.

[Kanzaki]

I love men's clothes more than women's, but the problem is that I'm too short and tiny (1.56 mts, 5.11 feet) and men clothes are huge!!

I think you may have meant 5'1, not 5'11. The latter is almost 180cm. We're the same height so I feel you on that one. Try going to different stores. I've noticed that the local H&M has much bigger sizes than New Yorker, for example. Depending on the average height, you may or may not be successful. For a sort of comparison, the average male height here is around 180-190 cm, and I do on occasion find T-shirts that fit. In the worst case, you can go to the kids' section (most of my clothes are from there). Some things from the womens' section might not actually look all that feminine, so you could try there too.

If you don't mind I have two more questions, the beginner-type:
- If I was to try testosterone for one or two months to see how I feel, what are the changes I will face? And can I hide them so people won't notice?

I'm not sure whether you'd be able to take it to experiment with it since (as far as I'm aware) you have to first be "diagnosed" and all. At least where I live, you have to be "diagnosed" by two doctors, then you go through a series of check-ups to make sure your body is healthy, and then you can start T. Someone already mentioned the changes. You should be able to hide them alright, but some of those effects are not reversible. Can't answer your other question, sorry.

[Peep]

Topman does some quite small sizes. I have to turn up or re-hem all my jeans but I had to do that in women's clothes too. Or I buy cropped or ankle-grazer jeans - which are short on cis men but the right length on me.

[Elis]

I use Asos because they do XS sizes but also XXS, at least on the UK website.

[WorkingOnThomas]

Peep, the Glenda the Good Witch thing is an absolutely perfect description of how my mother has reacted. She's the only one though. In the last six months since I came out and started living full time, no one else has even feigned surprise. She complained my entire childhood (and right on into my 30s) about how unfeminine I was, and suddenly I'm the world's only supplier of oestrogen. Weird, to say the least.

[Peep]

Peep, the Glenda the Good Witch thing is an absolutely perfect description of how my mother has reacted. She's the only one though. In the last six months since I came out and started living full time, no one else has even feigned surprise. She complained my entire childhood (and right on into my 30s) about how unfeminine I was, and suddenly I'm the world's only supplier of oestrogen. Weird, to say the least.

Yeah i really don't get it. Also, it turns out they never believed me before when i said i didn't want children, so despite the fact that I've been saying this for a literal decade, now is the time to mourn imaginary grandkids

[FtMitch]

Yeah i really don't get it. Also, it turns out they never believed me before when i said i didn't want children, so despite the fact that I've been saying this for a literal decade, now is the time to mourn imaginary grandkids

Ugh, I am with you there.  Despite the fact that I DO want kids my mother has somehow decided that me being trans means I will never have kids or a partner and will be alone forever, destroying her chances of being a grandma.  This, more than anything, is what we have fought about.  She actually told me once that I "ruined her plans."  We were in the middle of a fight so I am pretty sure she said it in anger, but it still made me mad.  Oh, I ruined your plans for ME?  So sorry!  The joys of parents who think your life is their life, despite you being thirty.  Lol. 

[Just_M]

Hi, guys! I can totally relate to what you're saying. And my mother also has my life planned in ways that are not similar at all to what I've planned for myself. I don't think she believes me either when I tell her I don't want to have kids.
I'm so sorry I've been away lately. I've been reading all your posts but refrained myself from answering because I still have no clue of what or who I am. Yesterday I read in another forum this post made by a MT? person that said something I could relate to: (s)he said he was quite pretty and that he was confortable living as a male but that he always wondered if he was actually trans. And people responses were basically something like: if you're ok like this, why change? So frustrating, I still cannot figure myself out. But it's true that it is easier to stay the same than facing the challenges that come with transitioning, I guess.
Hopefully time will go by and these doubts will leave... right?

[Dena]

I don't know if this will help you figure it out but I have two links. The first is our Wiki where you will have most of the names. The second is "the transition channel" where you will get an introduction to therapy and if you don't find a name, you may be able to eliminate a few from the list.

[Kylo]

1) I think it's just the wiring in people. I know from my own relationship that the idea you're female in someone's mind is super strong; you can tell them you're not, you can dress in male clothes, you can not shave and get sasquatch legs and pits, but the idea is unshakeable in some people. Not until you look and sound almost exactly like a man that it'll start kicking in and making them uncomfortable (if they're straight).

I told my significant other the same thing 4 years ago nearly. He keeps "forgetting". I haven't shaved the legs in well over a year and a half (I actually kinda like some smooth skin on dudes) but he doesn't seem that bothered. He keeps suggesting I grow my hair and dye it, and other stuff that I'm just not gonna do as if he's unconsciously wishing I egde back toward looking more fem. But at the same time I think he's slowly beginning to accept things - even offered to give me some better quality razors the other day for the face. He knows I've been routinely shaving my face since... like 1999 or something but finally seems to have stopped thinking that's strange. (What I find strange is that if people expect women to shave their bodies, why would shaving their face too see strange at all, lol).

At the moment what my S.O. sees is me as a female still. He's waiting for the point at which I start to seem "not female" and he knows it's coming. It's also pretty ingrained into people that telling what they believe is a female person that they look feminine is a compliment, not an insult. They think they're saying the right thing... maybe because they think you lack self esteem and want to hear it so you'll embrace being female, or maybe some other reason... but it's pretty hard to shake out of people. One you begin to look undeniably male though, their certainty of your 'femininity' will begin to dissolve. It's very hard even for a convinced person to keep calling someone "she" who looks and sounds very much like a he. (Unless they're just being an ass).

2) I found after I decided to quit shaving limbs I worried less about what people think. I am kinda glad I have very fine blond body hair so it's not exactly easy to spot right now... but it is spottable and I thought maybe I'd think about it more when I went to work with a bunch of strangers but, I didn't. Didn't get any comments about it and I didn't even think about it. It would have been way more noticeable back when I have just stopped shaving because the hairs are stiff and point upwards like prickles after years of shaving... after about a year of no shaving they eventually lay down natural on the skin and look less noticeable. The shape of the hairs reverts to a more natural tapered one instead of the "stubble-like" one from shaving. So the longer you don't shave the less noticeable it'll be I suppose.