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Feeling so low

Started by Amoré, February 22, 2016, 12:43:23 AM

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Amoré

Me and my wife was at a child therapist on friday for the feedback and a lot came out.

My child is suffering from anxiety. The best we can give her is a stable home with both parents together for security.
My wife soon to be ex is sitting there and rolling her eyes.

She asked a question what about a new partner the therapist told her that it makes a child feel more insecure and threatened. The trauma of this can last a lifetime and step parents normally cause a lot of trauma if they are bad. She added to say nothing can replace a home with mom and dad. I felt like ->-bleeped-<-  :'( :'( :'(

This obviously did not sink in at my wife.

I then asked what is the effect of divorce on a child. She said the trauma that a child experiences lasts a lifetime. It never goes away. I felt more like a piece of ->-bleeped-<-.

I could relate to this I am 28 and still suffering with issues from divorce step parents and stuff.

Is this the aftermath?

I then asked what would the effect be of me changing genders on my child she said she found no long term trauma in any children with such a parent.

I must just dress as male and keep it male and ease in to it or start dressing female and stick with it not swapping around.

Everybody was shocked by this answer from the therapist because they blamed my transgender things for everything.

Now I am trying to speak to my wife and tell her you know what let us be good parents you heard what is best for your child let us give her the best. Now she is telling me she can't be with someone with dysphoria how can you not be with someone with dysphoria if they stop transitioning. It is wrong for them to be with someone like that. It is as good as me saying I did not want to be with her because she has eczema and sometimes it is visible on her legs or neck and arms. It does not change who she is. So she can't life with me having dysphoria what is so bad about it. I accepted myself as trans I want to stop it because I want to raise a child to the best that I can and now you wan't to tell me this is why you are divorcing me. I don't get it she is saying she is putting her child first but she want to divorce because of dysphoria.

It feels like I am being taken very low because of her statement. I am hurt because you want to define my whole being on the fact that I have dysphoria it is like defining a person on the fact that they have cancer.  :-\

I just wanted to be a good parent but the problem is not with me.


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stephaniec

Honestly , you need to accept she's made her decision and you need to move on and protect yourself legally as far as your child is concerned. This happens all the time, My niece was married for a few years , had two children and her husband divorced her for a younger girl and she's only 25.
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FTMDiaries

Quote from: Amoré on February 22, 2016, 12:43:23 AM
My child is suffering from anxiety. The best we can give her is a stable home with both parents together for security.

Of course! In an ideal world, the best home for a child is to a stable home with loving parents. But this isn't an ideal world, is it? If one parent falls out of love with the other - to the extent that she gets violent and hostile, as your ex has done with you - then that is no longer a stable home. Living together for the sake of your daughter won't fix your ex's behaviour: if anything, it'll make it much worse, because she'll resent you for forcing her into a corner.

So that option is no longer on the table. So what's the next best thing?

That would be for the two of you to live separately, but to share custody of your daughter so that she can maintain a loving relationship with both of you. And you'll both need to ensure that - for your daughter's sake - you remain civil towards each other, especially behind each other's backs.

I'm willing to bet that the reason why your child is suffering anxiety is because she feels insecure. Her stable home life has been turned on its head, and she doesn't understand why it's happening. I'm also willing to bet your ex says nasty things about you within her earshot, and she's picking up on them.

Quote from: Amoré on February 22, 2016, 12:43:23 AM
I then asked what is the effect of divorce on a child. She said the trauma that a child experiences lasts a lifetime. It never goes away. I felt more like a piece of ->-bleeped-<-.

Remember: the divorce is your wife's bright idea - not yours! You don't need to feel responsible for someone else's decision. So what if she's trying to pin the blame on you: she's the one who promised to be with you for better or for worse, in sickness and in health... and then the minute you tell her you're suffering she decides she didn't really mean that! You shouldn't feel guilty about that - it's not your fault.

Quote from: Amoré on February 22, 2016, 12:43:23 AM
I then asked what would the effect be of me changing genders on my child she said she found no long term trauma in any children with such a parent.

Bingo! I like this therapist - she's done her research. :) It's also helpful that your child is still very young, because young children can adjust to these sorts of things quite easily.

Quote from: Amoré on February 22, 2016, 12:43:23 AM
I must just dress as male and keep it male and ease in to it or start dressing female and stick with it not swapping around.

Yup. If you're planning to be full-time, then going full-time asap would be the best thing to do for your child's stability.

Quote from: Amoré on February 22, 2016, 12:43:23 AM
Everybody was shocked by this answer from the therapist because they blamed my transgender things for everything.

By 'everybody' I daresay you mean your ex, who seems to be on a massive vendetta against you. She's blaming you for everything, rather than looking within to identify her own problems. That's abusive behaviour, and I'm willing to bet the therapist noticed this.

Quote from: Amoré on February 22, 2016, 12:43:23 AM

Now I am trying to speak to my wife and tell her you know what let us be good parents you heard what is best for your child let us give her the best. Now she is telling me she can't be with someone with dysphoria how can you not be with someone with dysphoria if they stop transitioning.

Correct - I'm afraid it does sound like she can't be with you anymore. That's her decision and she's made it for reasons we've discussed before (including social pressures such as her family's bigotry and perhaps some of her personal beliefs). I firmly believe the only way you can provide the best for your daughter is for you to do it separately, not together.

Quote from: Amoré on February 22, 2016, 12:43:23 AM
I just wanted to be a good parent but the problem is not with me.

Bingo again!





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Amoré

I really hope transitioning is the right thing then because I am trans I can't run away from it. Will I find a man that will love me and don't beat me up when they find out I am trans.  :'(

I don't know if I wan't a woman again because they just skip out in a heartbeat. I am far from dating again I don't think I will be ready in the next two years. I must get over her first and then I must figure out myself maybe build a career. Earn good money and see if I want someone again.

I can forget about ever having my family back. She made it very clear that I have 40 to 50 years to give to someone else I must not waste it on her. I love her and it hurts. So what is left transition and be what I am or stay a man and I have to tell someone else listen I am trans and get dumped again and hurt another person just by being trans.

So the only option is to transition then and be true to myself and everyone else.

I realised the days when I feel most dysphoric I dress male for some reason. I don't know why I do this.
These days I feel ashamed of myself and what is happening to me. Today is one of those days.



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Kylo

She's saying she can't live with you with dysphoria because she can't unhear what's been said, I reckon.

Like if I'd gone and told my other half to forget about all the stuff that's happened when I came out it'd be impossible. There's no way he'd ever be able to feel comfortable knowing how uncomfortable I was and it'd feel like a sham, an awkward pretence. As unkind as your wife seems to have been at least by way of that she's acknowledging the reality of your feeling. But your wife seems intent on just getting you out of her life so it could also be an excuse on her part.
"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Amoré

If I get a new job how do I work with being trans if I did not tell them I was trans in the interview. When do I come out and what do I do with my breasts. They are still small and I am busy growing my hair out. I got the news that I have got a job I am just waiting for the offer to sign. Then I am employed again but then I am scared of what they will do if they know I am trans.


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Adchop

I'm sorry to hear that your having issues with your wife. It seems that once opened pandora's box is opened with GID, for some spouses it can never be closed again.

While divorce is tough on kids, the thing I have learned from my child psychology courses is that it only takes 1 parent who is completely and totally invested in a child to make the difference. If your child feels that they are the center of your world, that will be enough, even if in a 1 parent home.

I know it may be tough, but as my Abraham Lincoln liked to say "This too shall pass".
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Adchop

Quote from: Amoré on February 22, 2016, 11:18:23 AM
If I get a new job how do I work with being trans if I did not tell them I was trans in the interview. When do I come out and what do I do with my breasts. They are still small and I am busy growing my hair out. I got the news that I have got a job I am just waiting for the offer to sign. Then I am employed again but then I am scared of what they will do if they know I am trans.

I feel your pain. Employment opportunities & my wife/child are the things that keep me from going all in on a transition. I'm just going to go the low dose hrt route and see how many months I can get before having to make a decision.
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Amy413

Wow, I really feel for you Amore.

I'm basically a 2nd generation. My parents divorced in '73, not exactly clear on the details, I was quite young.
It went well for a divorce I guess. My parents were fairly civil to each other, But I was persistently aware of subtle 'digs' they would take behind each others backs. My mom was particularly brutal, undermining my dad, painting him as weak and passive. My dad kept telling me about how insane my mother was. My mom had primary custody. Weekends with my dad. But random visitation was also acceptable as well. Things were not strained compaired to many other divorces at the time.

In '84 my mom discovered my 'secret wardrobe', and told me about my father being a cross-dresser. I was 14 in a stressful troubling age, especially as a tran. Just having been "busted".... short-circuited. It's taken 30 years to deal with the fallout.

Later as I got older, and had job troubles, I found myself living with my father. Probably really in an unconscious attempt to get what I had missed as a kid. Custody decisions favored the mothers back then. I spent many years unemployed, living with my dad. In my recent stress, moving BACK in with him upon his retirement, we have had an excellent chance to talk really well about a LOT of subjects.

He had encountered the choice of transition himself, and made his own decisions for not doing it. I'm not very clear about his reasons, I didn't want to go into the subject too deep. But what it taught me that "this", is ok. It's natural, it's genetic. Older generations really did not have much of a "choice" in the matter the oppression was so deep, his generation saw things a little different. He has made his choices as he says.

He is a a tran friendly person. Has tran friends. One of them got me my first break in the video game industry in '94. he is accepting of me however I am.

So is my mother. I don't think her telling me about my dad at 14 was divisive, just a clumsy attempt to help with something she didn't fully understand herself. She pretty much always known, almost had been chomping at the bit for me to "come out", in recent years talking about her friends in the LGBT community, She is married to my stepfather. Obviously for years trying to learn about me. She cares a lot, sometimes in a clumsy, smothering way.
I think she feels guilty for something, she has always had a bad habit of beating herself up about everything. That's how I learned how to do it, on mama's knee. Her pain had always worried me.

She had a lot of substance issues in the 70's & 80's, sober 27 years now.
We had developed a very co-dependent relationship over the years, I was also in and out of 12 step programs. She stayed sober continuously, I kept going in and out.

I have ended my relationship with AA and alcohol. I don't drink, but I don't do the 12-step thing either. I have a lot of trouble with that subculture. But my mother and my relationship has been entangled into the AA world. I feel it is a cult. I do not wish to debate that with AA supporters. let's just leave it there. Because it is a cult, I have had to sever my relationship with my mother who is an active AA member. I love her, but as of now I have her and the 12 step world too immeshed to be able to talk to her. I do not associate with any active 12 step people. I am breaking from a cult. Hopefully I can work out my "AA issues" and re-connect. i don't hate her, I love her. But I can't be involved with the 12-step world anymore. I see a LOT of things very wrong within the subculture of AA, and it actually hurts lives. But that's my opinion, and a debate would go off topic.

Anyhow, where am I going?

Divorce does hurt, just ask the multitudes of children of divorce. If parents do not communicate properly and respect each other decades of problems can result for everyone, children and parents. I feel it was my moms drinking.

My father has his issues either way. I feel it was the lack of communication and respect within the family that did the damage. Perhaps if there were more open communication, I could have accepted myself, and my father earlier.
I don't hate him for who he is. I've had confused, angry adolescent feeling in the past, but that's just fear of the truth.

I really don't know what to say, Just I wish the best for you and your family and that you all can find some peace with the situation. As a child of divorce, it has made me very gun-shy on romantic relationships.
As a child of a cross dresser (that is how my father self identifies), who accepts his cross dressing, I feel fortunate that I come from open minded genes.
As a child of an alcoholic, I am eternally concerned with my mothers welfare. Even if she is 27 years sober.

This is just my experience.
I wish you the best Amore, hugs.
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FTMDiaries

Quote from: Amoré on February 22, 2016, 11:18:23 AM
If I get a new job how do I work with being trans if I did not tell them I was trans in the interview. When do I come out and what do I do with my breasts. They are still small and I am busy growing my hair out. I got the news that I have got a job I am just waiting for the offer to sign. Then I am employed again but then I am scared of what they will do if they know I am trans.

Congrats on getting the job! :) Once you have that written offer and have sent them your written acceptance, you can write to their HR department and inform them that you intend to transition on the job, if you so wish. They are not allowed to withdraw the job offer at that point. And the sooner you do it, the better - because then your colleagues and/or clients can get to know you as a woman right from the start.

There are precedents in case law where employers have fired someone after they've come out as trans, and when they are taken to court by their former employee they were found to have unfairly dismissed them. Atkins v. Datacentrix (Pty) Ltd and Ehlers v. Bohler Uddeholm Africa (Pty) Ltd are two good examples.

Atkins is particularly relevant in that a candidate applied for a job and was given a written job offer, after which she wrote to them to tell them she was going to transition on the job. They withdrew their offer claiming she'd lied by not disclosing her trans status. She sued and won: the Court determined that trans employees are under no obligation to disclose that we intend to transition, and the job she was offered (an IT expert) does not have any specific gender qualifications attached to it so this was ruled as an automatic unfair dismissal, and Datacentrix had to pay compensation & report back to the Court that they'd changed their policies.

In Ehlers, an employee was fired after transitioning on the job, mainly because her bosses didn't think a woman could do her job(!) but also because her colleagues bullied her for being trans. Again the company lost: they were ordered to reinstate her & to change their policies.

I recommend you read Atkins; here's the case and it describes the various bits of law that covered this case. Please excuse the clunky pronouns: I'd imagine Atkins hadn't yet changed her ID at the time.

Hopefully this new job will give you some independence, and it'll give you something to keep you occupied whilst you go through this difficult phase in your life.





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Amoré

Would you advice me to work a couple of months as male and then disclose the fact that I want to change genders?


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Violets

Quote from: Amoré on February 23, 2016, 01:02:06 AM
Would you advice me to work a couple of months as male and then disclose the fact that I want to change genders?

Does your new job have a probationary period? If so, I wouldn't say anything till you've made it through that.

Congrats on scoring the new job!


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FTMDiaries

Quote from: Amoré on February 23, 2016, 01:02:06 AM
Would you advice me to work a couple of months as male and then disclose the fact that I want to change genders?

It's entirely up to you. The law covers you no matter when you choose to come out. The law also covers you irrespective of whether your company has a policy covering trans people.

The benefit of coming out before starting there is that you can present as female from day 1. Many of us know from experience that transitioning on the job can lead to your colleagues treating you differently, struggling with names & pronouns etc. Well, why not let them learn your correct name and pronouns from the start? Also, think about what information you want to provide if/when you sign up to the company's Medical Aid scheme. Would you have to disclose to them, especially as they're likely to see your dysphoria as being a pre-existing condition? Would their policy cover the medical side of your transition?

The best-case scenario is that the company is serious about having an Equal Opportunities policy, and they'll treat you with respect and make sure your colleagues do so too. If you work with HR you can decide how much information you want everyone else to be told, if any. Remember: nobody has any right to know anything about your trans status, unless you want them to.

But of course, you know as well as I do that there are a lot of people out there with very backwards views about trans people. The worst-case scenario is that the company could withdraw their job offer (or fire you) at any stage of your employment if you choose to come out, even if you've been there for several years. You're still covered by the law, but you'd have to take them to court before you get any redress.

The thing is: if they're going to fire you for being trans, they're going to do it no matter how long you've been there. So think about how you want to manage it and come out at that point. Just make sure you at least have your job offer in writing (and that you've accepted it in writing, if applicable) before coming out.





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Amoré

FTMDiaries You are not maybe part of the CtrlAltGender group in South Africa?  :)


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Amoré

Quote from: Violets on February 23, 2016, 01:14:08 AM
Does your new job have a probationary period? If so, I wouldn't say anything till you've made it through that.

Congrats on scoring the new job!

As far as I know yes they have. Also it sucks in a way because I would like everyone that I meet to know the new me not the male me then have to adjust to new pronounce and name and things it would be better just being treated as a trans woman from the start.


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Thessa

Amoré,

I can very well relate to your situation.

I've been through a lot of similar situations in my past and current relationship.

What I can tell you is, that I had situtions with my former spouse where I really contemplated the option to stop all contact to my (first) daughter for her well being. Her mother did everthing to ruin our relationship and I have seen how hard it was for her as a child. But I did not and in the end she moved out of her mothers home two years ago and is now living with me. And she told me (multiple times) since then, that she never regretted her decision.

Since I came out to her as Trans a few weeks ago, she is my biggest supporter and we have such a deep bond we never had before.

With my soon to be EX-wife I have the situation that she knew from the beginning of our relationship about my transness but she still married me. When the dysphoria was getting too hard for me to cope with, she totally freaked out and stopped any communication and now we are at such a low point that - on a personal level - I'm happy that we will go separate ways, but on another level I resent her that she did nothing to find a common ground and save our family and stay together for the daughter we have together.

I can't see in her mind and I don't know what made her to freak out so much, I can only imagine (on how I know her) that she envisioned the worst outcome in every aspect of our life and decided that it easier for her to run.

My older daughter resent her mother and her "step-mother" what they did and or didn't do.
Don't get me wrong, she understand and accept (and I do as well) that for some SOs it's not an option to stay with the Transperson in their life, but it's always how things are done and how you treat people.

I'm pretty sure that the situation might be different, if there would be still the same level of communication and respect we had in the beginning of our relationship.

Sometimes we just have to accept what life serves us and make the best out of it.
I have to let her go and so have you, your EX does not deserve you!
Be the nice and kind person you are, be yourself and your child will see the true when she is old enough.

Everytime when I have a low point after an argument with my wife or when I think about the uncertain future I remember the Kimmy Schmidt song: "Females are STRONG as HELL"  >:-)

So you will make it, we all will make it.

Hugs, Thessa


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Adchop

Quote from: Amoré on February 23, 2016, 07:05:44 AM
As far as I know yes they have. Also it sucks in a way because I would like everyone that I meet to know the new me not the male me then have to adjust to new pronounce and name and things it would be better just being treated as a trans woman from the start.

I feel your pain. I work in an American state (Tennessee) that is very conservative, & a right to work state on top of that. I'm hesitant to give my employers any excuse to fire me, so I'm avoiding a full transition for the time being.

Is South Africa in general a LGBT friendly place, or more conservative?
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Amoré

Well South Africa is more an LGBT friendly place the people is the problem.  ::)

Quote from: Thessa on February 23, 2016, 12:53:38 PM
Amoré,

I can very well relate to your situation.

I've been through a lot of similar situations in my past and current relationship.

What I can tell you is, that I had situtions with my former spouse where I really contemplated the option to stop all contact to my (first) daughter for her well being. Her mother did everthing to ruin our relationship and I have seen how hard it was for her as a child. But I did not and in the end she moved out of her mothers home two years ago and is now living with me. And she told me (multiple times) since then, that she never regretted her decision.

Since I came out to her as Trans a few weeks ago, she is my biggest supporter and we have such a deep bond we never had before.

With my soon to be EX-wife I have the situation that she knew from the beginning of our relationship about my transness but she still married me. When the dysphoria was getting too hard for me to cope with, she totally freaked out and stopped any communication and now we are at such a low point that - on a personal level - I'm happy that we will go separate ways, but on another level I resent her that she did nothing to find a common ground and save our family and stay together for the daughter we have together.

I can't see in her mind and I don't know what made her to freak out so much, I can only imagine (on how I know her) that she envisioned the worst outcome in every aspect of our life and decided that it easier for her to run.

My older daughter resent her mother and her "step-mother" what they did and or didn't do.
Don't get me wrong, she understand and accept (and I do as well) that for some SOs it's not an option to stay with the Transperson in their life, but it's always how things are done and how you treat people.

I'm pretty sure that the situation might be different, if there would be still the same level of communication and respect we had in the beginning of our relationship.

Sometimes we just have to accept what life serves us and make the best out of it.
I have to let her go and so have you, your EX does not deserve you!
Be the nice and kind person you are, be yourself and your child will see the true when she is old enough.

Everytime when I have a low point after an argument with my wife or when I think about the uncertain future I remember the Kimmy Schmidt song: "Females are STRONG as HELL"  >:-)

So you will make it, we all will make it.

Hugs, Thessa




Hi Thessa

I appreciate your story and it is one of the reasons why I am transitioning now. I don't want to get a second spouse and go through the whole drama again. My next partner will know me as the real me. It saddens me that some people like our wife's just bail out and is like "nope I love him but there is no place for her".  My child is still very young but there is things that is upsetting in my wife's housing setup.

Unfortunately at this stage she is to young to choose this is wrong behaviour and I don't like it. I am asking some day's what did I do wrong as a man not to be enough man for her. Do she want to be treated the way that other men are treating her. I wanted to stay male and work on my marriage but she took the other root and said she is done with this chapter of her life with me she is starting chapter two.

Now chapter two is going to be interesting because I am going to sit and name it "you think the grass is greener on the other side".

I told her today she thinks I am dysphoria it is a mountain that is blinding the tropical paradise on the other side to her. She can't look what is on the other side.

My honest opinion about us trans woman. I don't think you will find a person that respects a woman more than us and that can love woman more than us. We understand how woman want to be treated how they want to be taken care of we can see it from their eyes and point of view.

Well in the end I am bound to become a woman myself and I have to find a partner again. My chapter two is starting only my route is different if I meet someone then that is awesome but I am not looking for someone anymore.

I don't mind spending my life alone a couple of years and building my career and surrounding myself with good friends.
I feel like I first have to get my life sorted get where I want to be in my career I want to do my masters in computer science and make myself indispensable as an employee. I want people to run after me wanting to work for them rather than looking for work. Taking home 6 figure income's. I don't want to do what my wife is trying to do get someone to sort her life for her,a man that I can move in with and ride on his back. No this trans girl is going to be an example of what someone in our community can be. If love is meant for me then it will find me. I won't go out looking for it because then I am just going to find ->-bleeped-<-.

When my life is sorted I want to adopt a baby and be a mom. Feel what mothering a baby is like. Have that bond.

I went to my one female friend yesterday dressed female and she stood there shocked she almost jumped me to give me a hug about how cute I look and that I am made to be a woman and that I look beter as a woman than a man. She told me I don't realise how beautiful I really am and I maybe don't. I feel in a way that there is nothing left anymore of my old male side.


Excuse me for living
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Alice Rogers

A child will suffer far more from parents unhappily married than 2 happy divorced parents, believe me.
"I would rather be ashes than dust!
I would rather that my spark should burn out in a brilliant blaze than it should be stifled by dry-rot.
I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.
The function of man is to live, not to exist.
I shall not waste my days trying to prolong them.
I shall use my time." Jack London
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