Why Do Christians Want To Convert Me All The Time And Can't Accept Me?

[Tristyn]

I'm not shooting down Christianity or trying to raise a debate on anything to do with religion or politics. Those are really sensitive subjects and I don't like to argue about 'em. Moving along...


So this older shy lady at dialysis started talking to me recently some weeks ago at my dialysis center after I changed my chair time (yeah, I need to get some sleep for dialysis soon). For some reason we started talking about God. I guess because I told her that I believe (keyword was believe) life is pointless and nothing matters. Then she kept saying that there is proof of a God and how Darwinism is false. Blah Blah Blah.

Thing is, I never even mentioned Darwinism. I think Darwinism is a load of BS too, yet she just annoyingly assumed I was Darwinian. I could have been a Satanist or a Buddhist and she wouldn't know cause she assumed! No, I am Agnostic. And I told her that but she just kept on talking about how there is evidence of a Creator. I told her numerous times that I do not like discussing these things. Then the last time I saw her she gave me a "gift" that I did not really want but accepted it out of maturity and politeness. Though I will give it away to charity after I at least am fair and read the "gift" which is a book about scientific facts that "prove" the existence of God. Thing is its so annoying. I say that especially because she scribbled little irritating notes in there with her thoughts in it. Like they're all over the text in the book to the point where some parts are hard to read. I appreciated the thought of her giving me a gift but what pisses me off is that I think she wants me to think how she thinks. Like Christians don't understand that everyone doesn't have to think the same way.

She annoyingly has her tv at dialysis at a blasting volume with one of those crazy Christian Fundamentalist preachers on tv the whole time she is being treated for 3 hours straight! Drives me nuts. I just don't know why people can't accept me like this. Jesus is supposed to accept everyone, right? So why can't she just say, "Hey, its ok that you don't believe in God but are still wondering if he/she/they/it could exist. Everyone has a right to their belief." But no, instead she's like, "No. There is evidence out there of his existence. Read this book. It will convert you like the author who was an Atheist and now he is a Christian." What a load of BS. I will never be a Christian. I grew up having to be raised in that cause my parents were Christians not because I was. I wish I could give this book back but its hard after accepting it. I'm just trying to be more grounded and adult about life and so far I think its working I guess.



-Phoenix

[Deborah]

I've looked at stuff like she gave you before.  Was it from the Institute for Creation Research?

The only way the arguments presented work is if the reader has a poor grasp of science and no knowledge of how logic works.  Most of the arguments are childishly simplistic.

Nevertheless, if she was otherwise pleasant it would be in poor taste to be rude to her.


Sapere Aude

[FTMax]

I wouldn't let it bother you, especially with older folks. There's no ill will there. Part of being a Christian is sharing your faith with other people if you feel called to do so. Of course, she should've dropped it when you said you don't like to discuss religion. But I don't think she meant to be disrespectful. A lot of times, older folks just don't understand that it's more of a personal thing for younger people today.

I actually write in probably every book I read. So if I ever loan them out to people, they get the book plus all of my underlining, highlighting, and side comments.

By chance was the book by Lee Strobel? It sounds very similar to the books my parents used to read.

[RobynD]

They often truly believe that those who do not accept the faith, will suffer an eternity of burning in a non-consuming fire. The faith tells you to go out and make disciples of everyone. Many Christians that believe in eternal suffering for the non-believer, i believe have a real concern for those around them. So if they are not too obtrusive, that is sort of a positive, right? They care about others.

Then there are the believers that have a ton of doubt themselves, and their evangelism is a means to assuage their doubt. The more people they can associate with, and the more people they can talk to about the faith the less room they have for those doubts in their heads. I wish these folks would be more honest about it, in my experience they rarely are.

Btw, i am a Christian but i also deal with a ton of doubt and many days i am more a Universalist.

[Joelene9]

  I am more of a Messianic now than the Methodist I grew up with. I had a long feud with those TV preachers whom uses that media to harvest money and distort the meanings of the Bible. The chatty lady you came across watching these shows while doing dialysis? Let her vent. I got a Southern Baptist brother who constantly preaches to the choir. When I talk astronomy or dinosaurs, he doesn't want to hear it. I have to put up on that. YES, The Book of Genesis does support the Big Bang Theory!

Joelene

[Eevee]

I definitely get this topic and I'm also agnostic. I do like Christians (and other religious people) in general. In fact my boyfriend is Christian and I love him to death. What I cannot stand is people who get in my face to force their beliefs on me as if faith could be inherently right or wrong. Some people will not relent until you agree with them, and if you tell them off you are the wicked one. I go out of my way to accept everyone else's right to believe what they want. Why can't I be afforded the same right? Go away.

[Tristyn]

I wouldn't let it bother you, especially with older folks. There's no ill will there. Part of being a Christian is sharing your faith with other people if you feel called to do so. Of course, she should've dropped it when you said you don't like to discuss religion. But I don't think she meant to be disrespectful. A lot of times, older folks just don't understand that it's more of a personal thing for younger people today.

I actually write in probably every book I read. So if I ever loan them out to people, they get the book plus all of my underlining, highlighting, and side comments.

By chance was the book by Lee Strobel? It sounds very similar to the books my parents used to read.

I honestly think the issue is that, like Evee said, lots of religious people (not just Christians either) like to push their own beliefs on to others and use their personal experience as evidence of a Creator or God more than Bible scriptures.  So in a sense, its personal for them, the religious ones also.

And yes, Max, that was by Lee Strobel. You were right on the money. I will admit he is a very exceptional author and makes valid arguments but in my most humble opinion the foundation for which his "proof" of God's existence is obtained is very unstable. From what I gather, and I could be wrong, but the only reason he claims to know that God exists is because Darwinism is a false doctrine. And I'm thinking that he would have to eliminate all other possibilities too. Just because silly Darwinism can be proven false doesn't automatically make the Creation Story fact. Like his scientific reasoning somehow ends up so small-minded and goes a bit like this, "There's is no other way to explain how we got here. It was nothing short of a miracle. Therefore, there is a God afterall!" So funny I wanted to laugh.

This doesn't mean I do not think God could exist but his argument, as scientifically glossy as he makes it sound, does suck in the end. But the information he provides as far as science goes is what is keeping me interested in the book. Its a pretty good book as far as the the way its written in regards to science, but that's about it, IMO.

I think the woman that gave me that book, The Case For A Creator, meant well by that action. So I just couldn't bring myself to refuse it. She is such a sweet lady and I took pity on her when she told me she lost a child. I would have felt so low to reject her offer.



-Phoenix

[Deborah]

Evolution cannot be proven false no matter what tortured arguments one tries to make.  That's why their PROOFS fail.


Sapere Aude

[Kylo]

I think it's because a lot of people have this idea being transgender is some fad or fashion lately or something. Ask the average person who knows almost nothing about it what "transgender" or "transsexual" means and they'll probably confuse it with transvestism or an image of Caitlyn Jenner will flash into their brain along with the idea you are making a stupid mistake because you heard about it on TV. The idea you have suffered for your entire life will probably not even occur to them until you tell them.

It would be better if they'd never heard of ->-bleeped-<- and when you say that's what you have and they say "->-bleeped-<-? what's that?" you'd have a chance to explain to them without any of their half-baked preconceptions and suspicions coloring their viewpoint.

The main idea I guess religious people have issue with is the changes. Most religions tell people not to change their bodies - some even state they cannot have blood transfusions or operations that will save their own lives. They're going to see you trying to change as a mistake because many do not believe god makes mistakes, or a sin because you're trying to 'bend the rules'. If they try to convert you instead of yelling at you that you're a sinner who's going to hell (like some of the dudes who used to stand there in my old town handing out leaflets calling EVERYONE a sinner, how useful) then I suppose they mean well or are hoping to stop you making what they see as a 'mistake'. They probably will not understand how it is not a mistake even if you took pains to explain it all carefully to them.

[DawnOday]

I myself am a Deist, I believe in God, not the crazies that have been mis interpreting his and his son's message. Religion is a control mechanism. As long as they keep you in fear, they can do as they wish.
My God will accept me for me, because all he asks is that I accept him. In their world your the pervert not them. In mine I am completely normal. Always evolving, in thought, action and compassion. When Pastors quit living in $10 million dollar mansions I may start believing. The majority of people who won't acknowledge you for who you are, are of low education and low self esteem, and always waiting around for miracles. God gave the Doctors the ability to perform miracles. Imagine a boy being transformed into a woman, If that isn't a miracle I don't know what is. 

[Tristyn]

I think it's because a lot of people have this idea being transgender is some fad or fashion lately or something. Ask the average person who knows almost nothing about it what "transgender" or "transsexual" means and they'll probably confuse it with transvestism or an image of Caitlyn Jenner will flash into their brain along with the idea you are making a stupid mistake because you heard about it on TV. The idea you have suffered for your entire life will probably not even occur to them until you tell them.

It would be better if they'd never heard of ->-bleeped-<- and when you say that's what you have and they say "->-bleeped-<-? what's that?" you'd have a chance to explain to them without any of their half-baked preconceptions and suspicions coloring their viewpoint.

The main idea I guess religious people have issue with is the changes. Most religions tell people not to change their bodies - some even state they cannot have blood transfusions or operations that will save their own lives. They're going to see you trying to change as a mistake because many do not believe god makes mistakes, or a sin because you're trying to 'bend the rules'. If they try to convert you instead of yelling at you that you're a sinner who's going to hell (like some of the dudes who used to stand there in my old town handing out leaflets calling EVERYONE a sinner, how useful) then I suppose they mean well or are hoping to stop you making what they see as a 'mistake'. They probably will not understand how it is not a mistake even if you took pains to explain it all carefully to them.

But what about trans people who are also religious? I am not sure all religious people lack an understanding of change. I think in a way, that is a stereotype. I think maybe the way I titled this thread was a bit misleading, because I jumbled up anyone considering themselves to be Christian as being the same way. Not all Christians are cis and I think alot of us see religion as something only cis people have access to. And I am starting to realize that this is certainly not the case by any means.

No, I am far from being religious but that doesn't mean I think everyone needs to be non-religious. That's up to them. I guess my issue is when it is forced onto me or anyone else, trans or not, who do not want it. And that's what that lady was kinda doing. I mean even after politely telling her that I am not religious and dislike religious conversation she persistently insisted on it. I really don't care what religion people turn to or if they have no religion at all or if they have more than one religion. Just don't force me into it is all I ask of them, Christian or not, trans or not.

[Kylo]

I don't know any trans religious people personally but I do know looking on this forum that some of them struggle with the fact they are and that transition involves change. But yeah of course not every religious person doesn't understand change, I agree... didn't mean to imply that, but the people who treat their religion as a strict guidebook I would imagine would have problems when there's a condition that requires someone alter themselves through science and medicine when none of that stuff is really endorsed in their religion.

A religious person who is trying to convert you after you say no obviously has some kinda problem being near a person who doesn't share their views. In the same way on a forum you can get a member who debates with people over and over because they just HAVE to make that other person see that they are wrong - I dunno. Maybe it's a psychological problem some people have, religious or not. For every religious person you meet trying to convert you there's probably 10 who wouldn't... but you'd remember the ones trying to convert you because they'd be the ones making a bad impression.

[Tristyn]

I don't know any trans religious people personally but I do know looking on this forum that some of them struggle with the fact they are and that transition involves change. But yeah of course not every religious person doesn't understand change, I agree... didn't mean to imply that, but the people who treat their religion as a strict guidebook I would imagine would have problems when there's a condition that requires someone alter themselves through science and medicine when none of that stuff is really endorsed in their religion.

A religious person who is trying to convert you after you say no obviously has some kinda problem being near a person who doesn't share their views. In the same way on a forum you can get a member who debates with people over and over because they just HAVE to make that other person see that they are wrong - I dunno. Maybe it's a psychological problem some people have, religious or not. For every religious person you meet trying to convert you there's probably 10 who wouldn't... but you'd remember the ones trying to convert you because they'd be the ones making a bad impression.

Yeah, I see a good number of religious folks on here. And not long ago there was a story in the news section about the first mosque for trans people. But as far as the ones who aren't trans and want to force their beliefs onto others I would say definitely need to learn about individuality. I'm not sure religion is all the blame but it does seem like it sometimes especially in the hands of cis people who feel like they're the most normal people in the world it seems like.

But like you said, I really wonder just how anyone can be trans and religious when religion does not support the reality of transsexualism? And I guess it only does in people's personal translation of it but as a whole I don't think that is the case. I don't want to criticize anyone's religion or for anyone being religious but I have a hard time really understanding how trans people can knowingly be trans and religious at the same time without feeling very incongruent at all.

[FreyasRedemption]

That's funny. I get pestered in the same way by my atheist family, relatives, and various other people, including some in the internet.
Not so different from the religious fanatics I've met.

And the religion I belong to has pretty much no prejudice against transgender people. Quite the opposite, in fact, since they used to, and still do, hold us in pretty high regard.

[itsApril]

. . . I guess my issue is when it is forced onto me or anyone else, trans or not, who do not want it. And that's what that lady was kinda doing. I mean even after politely telling her that I am not religious and dislike religious conversation she persistently insisted on it. I really don't care what religion people turn to or if they have no religion at all or if they have more than one religion. Just don't force me into it is all I ask of them, Christian or not, trans or not.

Various religions are "proselytizing" faiths that affirmatively value going out aggressively to convert the unbelievers.  Evangelical Protestants, Mormons, and Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones you run across most commonly in the United States.  Some non-Christian faiths have the same characteristic.

Why won't this lady leave you alone?  Because she CAN'T!  She thinks she has been directed by God to pester you until you give in and join her church.  It's not just you.  She does it to all kinds of people she meets.  Folks like this are severely brainwashed, and it's often fruitless to try to reason with them.  They think as long as you're arguing with them, there's still a hope they can persuade you.

[FTMax]

I really wonder just how anyone can be trans and religious when religion does not support the reality of transsexualism? And I guess it only does in people's personal translation of it but as a whole I don't think that is the case. I don't want to criticize anyone's religion or for anyone being religious but I have a hard time really understanding how trans people can knowingly be trans and religious at the same time without feeling very incongruent at all.

Speaking only for myself, I believe in God and I believe that everything happens for a reason, whether we are meant to understand the reasoning or not. Believing that, I also believe that God made me transgender for a reason. My assumption would be so that I would have these experiences and in turn be able to help others going through the same things. And if I'm wrong? That's fine - no harm, no foul - I will have dedicated my life to supporting and helping others, which is what I believe is the right thing to do.

[Brandon]

Yeah, I see a good number of religious folks on here. And not long ago there was a story in the news section about the first mosque for trans people. But as far as the ones who aren't trans and want to force their beliefs onto others I would say definitely need to learn about individuality. I'm not sure religion is all the blame but it does seem like it sometimes especially in the hands of cis people who feel like they're the most normal people in the world it seems like.

But like you said, I really wonder just how anyone can be trans and religious when religion does not support the reality of transsexualism? And I guess it only does in people's personal translation of it but as a whole I don't think that is the case. I don't want to criticize anyone's religion or for anyone being religious but I have a hard time really understanding how trans people can knowingly be trans and religious at the same time without feeling very incongruent at all.

That's like asking how anyone that sins can still be religious, fornication is a sin, adultery is a sin, lying, stealing, murder, rape, drinking, smoking, cussing all of it is a sin in reality and the list goes on, God knows we aren't perfect which is why Jesus died for our sins and we as people have to ask for forgiveness and as far as being trans and the Bible, the only thing the Bible speaks about is crossdressing and homosexuality. I am aware that you are an atheist but that was kind of not so smart of a question tbh.

[Deborah]

Within Christianity the whole idea is to not sin anymore.  So I guess if you view being transsexual as a sin that Jesus will help you overcome then your post makes sense.  If you view it as an inborn condition, which medical science supports, then Christianity is incompatible.  Personally, I find my innate self being categorized alongside murderers and rapists insulting.


Sapere Aude

[Emileeeee]

I read an article just yesterday sort of on this topic, but the article itself was about a year old. I don't the TOS allows for sharing the link, but if you search on patheos for "If God Only Made Male & Female, What About Intersex", you should find it. It's a theologian discussing scriptures as related to not just intersex as the title states, but gender identity as well. I'm an atheist, but I'm the only one in my family that's not religious to the extreme. I found it interesting because although there are people in the medical field in my family, they all think the bible trumps all. This was by someone I thought they would trust using a book that I know they trust, to prove I'm not being controlled by the devil! I guess it doesn't help much in your context since you don't have a captive audience, but the more people that can be converted from "goes against nature", the better.

[Tristyn]

I honestly could care less about what "the bibles says." The bible is something I don't want any part of. It's just sickening when people try to talk to me about it as if I really care. I got better things to worry about.