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Child Board For Black, Hispanic and Other Transmen of Ethnic Minority?

Started by Tristyn, March 06, 2016, 03:28:51 AM

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Tristyn

Hello mods! I am super sorry if this topic was posted in the wrong section of the forum. If so, feel free to redirect it to the appropriate location. Moving along....

So I posted a thread a couple days ago about finding another online support forum for trans people but specifically for transmen of African American heritage because well, I am of African American heritage and would like to meet other people with similar experiences and background as my own too. Unfortunately, here at Susan's, I haven't met many but I know there are some on here.

The neat thing about Susan's is that its very diverse for the most part. But I would like to see if maybe one of the mods could look into creating a board designed specifically for ethnic minorities. Kinda like the multi-language sections of the forum but with race instead? I hope this wouldn't be an issue or anything.

The whole purpose of this move would be to bring trans people of minority together because let's be honest there are not very many Black trans people out like that compared to our White counter-parts. And I think that has alot to do with our culture and traditions. I think Euro culture is far more accepting of LGBTQAI topics than minority ones, especially African American.
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Cindy

The problem is when I look into it, who should be members and how to judge that?

I and the site accepts everyone no matter race, creed, orientation or background.

How do I segregate?

Which is a concept I hate.
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yaka

Quote from: Cindy on March 06, 2016, 03:45:51 AM
The problem is when I look into it, who should be members and how to judge that?

I and the site accepts everyone no matter race, creed, orientation or background.

How do I segregate?

Which is a concept I hate.

Aren't the FTM, MTF, intersex etc forums segregated? How is this any different?

The purpose of a forum like that is for men of ethnic minority to discuss issues or experiences that white FTMs do not face, such as racism and cultural issues.

I don't think that non ethnic men cannot contribute. Just as MTFs are allowed to post in the FTM forum if they wish.
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Cindy

Quote from: yaka on March 06, 2016, 04:18:08 AM
Quote from: Cindy on March 06, 2016, 03:45:51 AM
The problem is when I look into it, who should be members and how to judge that?

I and the site accepts everyone no matter race, creed, orientation or background.

How do I segregate?

Which is a concept I hate.

Aren't the FTM, MTF, intersex etc forums segregated? How is this any different?

The purpose of a forum like that is for men of ethnic minority to discuss issues or experiences that white FTMs do not face, such as racism and cultural issues.

I don't think that non ethnic men cannot contribute. Just as MTFs are allowed to post in the FTM forum if they wish.

Well MtFs don't have access to the FTM restricted areas and vice versa unless they are staff. If non ethnic men can contribute why have it, and if not isn't it setting up barriers we don't want as people?

I'm open to discussion but I think it is important that all transpeople know the issues that transmen of colour have. We fight the same fight. I would rather have support from all, not some barrier.

In the end we stand together or lose everything alone.
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Kylo

"If the freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
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Ayden

I understand both sides of the topic. For Cindy, the admins and the moderators the goal is that this site is a safe place for people from all over the world. The difference between language child boards and the restricted boards is that not everyone speaks English or cannot seek the support they need using English, and in the restricted boards for the gals and guys is so that we can talk about topics that we don't necessarily feel comfortable advertising in an open forum.

On the other hand,  it is true that different groups face different issues. I certainly won't claim to have any understanding of the difficulties faced by other ethnic groups. However, as Cindy pointed out, how do we decide who belongs to what group? Especially when that isn't something that the mods or admins can decide. To give an example, I know a few families with children where the parents are from one group (American, English,  etc) and the children, while sharing the same ethnicity, are not in their parents group at all. For one family I know, the children are fluent in Japanese, behave Japanese,  identify as such and are accepted as such despite the fact that they ethnically are not. I know a young woman in Alaska who is black but was raised by Athabaskan Natives and she identifies as Athabaskan, not black.

So, I understand both sides and I certainly won't say one side is right over the other. There are groups on social media sites for certain people only and I think they are important. However,  Susan's goal was to have everyone welcome.

There is always the option to post threads seeking advice from others in one's group, ethnic, cultural or otherwise. 

Edit to add: I'm not making any judgements, so please don't misinterpret. It's a topic worth discussing. Different groups have their own struggles, values and cultures.


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WanderingFace

Hmm. I don't think it's a bad idea. Having a sticky thread as mentioned may work like T.K.G.W's suggestion. So that there is something easy to find when you feel lonely and from an oppressed group.

But, it also really depends on the traffic of the site. As Ayden said this is a forum that allows participants from all over the world. People don't always have simple, no pun intended, black and white identities.

Minority groups are different and their cultures are different depending on where you are from. For instance a minority group from North America may not have the same experience as a minority in Asia. It gets complicated on who to include or not on a worldwide basis.

I can say it is an interesting and important topic so DO make a thread for discussion. No one will stop you. There is a lot of violence towards trans people, especially those who are not white.
- Kam

Started Testosterone: August 20th 2015
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sparrow

King Phoenix didn't suggest a segregated forum.  I think that self-selection like we have for significant others, for languages, etc. would be awesome -- a sub-board with a sticky up top that warns people that they're guests and that they should act like it.  Transgender people of color are double-damned -- they often experience abuse and discrimination from people of color due to their gender, and from other transgender people due to their racial background.


Perhaps sub-boards for disability, racial minority, religious minority, and poverty could be added to the Discrimination board?  Further breaking that down by gender doesn't make a lot of sense to me... but I think there's a lot of merit in King Phoenix's suggestion.  The mistreatment of people at the intersection of marginalized communities is severely compounded, and they need space to talk about that.
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Tristyn


Quote from: sparrow on March 07, 2016, 01:59:18 AM
King Phoenix didn't suggest a segregated forum.  I think that self-selection like we have for significant others, for languages, etc. would be awesome -- a sub-board with a sticky up top that warns people that they're guests and that they should act like it.  Transgender people of color are double-damned -- they often experience abuse and discrimination from people of color due to their gender, and from other transgender people due to their racial background.


Perhaps sub-boards for disability, racial minority, religious minority, and poverty could be added to the Discrimination board?  Further breaking that down by gender doesn't make a lot of sense to me... but I think there's a lot of merit in King Phoenix's suggestion.  The mistreatment of people at the intersection of marginalized communities is severely compounded, and they need space to talk about that.

Yeah, Sparrow, that's totally what I mean. If such sub-boards could be created, I think Susan's could be even more diverse and open that way. And you're right, I am not trying to segregate the members here. If it seems that way to anyone at all, I'm really sorry. It's only an idea that I thought could open doors for an even wider forum of discussion than previously. I suppose every race possible would have to be accounted for if such sub-boards were created, which is what I believe Cindy was in disagreement about. But if that's the case why have gender-specific forums for FTMs or MTFs at all, like Yaka said, instead of just combining them all together?

What if there are people on here who do not have a gender-specific space of their own to go to? That is how I feel about race. If a board can exist for FTMs and MTFs, why not one for African Americans and Hispanics among others? I'm sure there are gender-types that are not accounted for and have their own child boards like FTMs and MTFs do. So if that is a problem with race, why is this not a problem with gender? Why not combine everything? Because our experiences are not relatable for the most part. Everyone would be welcomed to these racial boards but only as guests like Sparrow said. Or at the least we could start off with sub-boards for minorities of race, religion, poverty, age, disability, or any other status that a human being can have that is liable of getting discriminated against. Awesome suggestion there Sparrow.
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haeden

So let's fine tone this a little more since Sparrow did offer some really good suggestions and Cindy is a mod so I understand her view.
So (and correct me if I'm wrong) what is being suggested is not a board that is restricted but an overall general board "Minorities" (or whatever we call it suggests it's more than just race) that anyone can click on but they know that this board and it's sub boards (race, disabilities, religion, etc.) are for a certain thing so like how you can click on transsexual and then click on mtf or ftm and so further.
This new board would look like that. It would have it's main title and then it's sub titles and if those sub titles need even more fine tuned groups like how ftm have gear, t, and surgery within it, we can do that for the sub titles too.
No body wants to exclude anyone from a group. Like Ayden said your skin can be of one race but you identify as another because it's all you know or maybe you just know a lot about that culture. My friend is white but she knows a lot on black culture and I wouldn't just ignore what she has to say because she's white. We don't want to do that here either but my friend knows when some lines she can't possibly cross or understand so instead just listens and learns others will have to do the same. You guys mod for bad behavior so if it seems like someone is just on these forms to be racist or make fun of anyone in general they should be stopped

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Tristyn

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stephaniec

Obviously I'm of a specific racial group. I'm in no way have any intent on harm to anyone. The problem for me when no matter how honorable the intent when you start grouping people according to race especially on a site set up for support your somewhat cruising for conflict. I went to the University of Illinois at Chicago during the early 70's. This was obviously right after the chaotic and turbulent 60's. I viewed myself at the time as a radical Hippie, one of the most sad things I experienced at a state University was everyday I walked into the cafeteria and everyday without fail the cafeteria was blatantly divided according to racial groups. I had just come off of a very turbulent time in my life and to have to experience what seemed to me a horrendous wrong in the social fabric of our society made me cry everyday. I totally understand our society is set up   like this where one group feels safer with people of their same origin, but do we really need division on a site that tries to help and prevent people from harming themselves and to find solutions to intense isolation. Please forgive me if I'm wrong in my view , but do we really need isolation and segregation.
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Mariah

Here is the thing folks. A minorities sub board, as much as it would be nice for some, others would feel unwelcome in the area. It's not by the title of the area, but by the fact sooner or later members of that area will likely say "hey you don't belong in here, your (fill in the blank here)". This is where the problem begins and ends unfortunately. It's just human nature for that to eventually occur. I can understand thant minorities have more issues when it comes to certain things, but for the base of trans issues affects all of us regardless of religion, race, or whatever the difference maybe. It transcends all of us. Segration is a concept I also hate and have shared that with admins on this particular issue. Thanks
Mariah
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
Retired News Administrator
Retired (S) Global Moderator
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Tristyn

I explained earlier that I am not trying to separate or segregate anyone. I just think if there can be a section for specific gender, why not with race, age groups, people with disabilities and stuff like that? It was just an idea. I didn't think it would hurt to ask. I'm no mod so I can't make that a reality or not. I was only bringing up a suggestion to have some space for people who have another set back for them other than being trans. I said that anyone would be welcome to these sub-boards. They would not be restricted. Why would I want that? If I somehow implied that, again, I am sorry and did not mean to.
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sparrow

Now two people are saying "no" on the basis of rejecting segregation.  But nobody is asking for segregation.  Is that truly the only "problem" with King Phoenix's request?  It sounds like there is no problem, because segregation would be inappropriate for this board, unlike the "notable figures" board which is segregated.

Intersectionality is a topic that needs to be discussed in every oppressed community, and ours is no different.  Transgender people of color are treated differently than white transgender people, and they need a space where talking about that is expressly on-topic.  Nobody is getting segregated, nobody is being isolated, nobody is being forbidden.  We're asking for Susan's to make space for discussing the issues that transgender people of color have to face on a day-to-day basis.

Please allow this.  Mariah, rejecting it on the reasoning that "it's only a matter of time before"... is not credible, because Susan's is moderated.  If somebody checks another person's race and says "hey you can't be here" then that's totally inappropriate and they should be warned/kicked.  Similarly, if somebody comes into the forum and starts bad-mouthing one race or another, that's already a TOS violation.

I notice that Cindy, Mariah, and stephaniec are all white (as am I).  Please consider that you might not understand where we're coming from in this request.  Please consider that this different perspective that we have is valid.  We need a space to talk about these issues, and white people need to witness and be a part of the conversation if society is going to make any progress.

Can we try it?  I understand your concerns, and setting the tone of the conversation in that board is crucially important.  If it turns into a pit of racism and exclusion, then by all means shut it down.  But please give it a fair shot.
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Mariah

 :police:
Admins and forum staff always take into account requests by users. Now that we have thoroughly discussed this request I see no need to keep this thread open any longer. Please allow staff to get back to you in regards to this request. Thank You
Mariah
(S) Global Moderator
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
Retired News Administrator
Retired (S) Global Moderator
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