Facial Changes on HRT after 1 year. what's reasonable?

[Lisbeth]

Not just when you are young.  Left: last January.  Right: 15 years ago.



It's odd. I can finally look at that old picture without feeling disgusted.  Now I can look at it and think, "I used to be a really handsome man."  And I can look at the other one and think, "I'm a really cute woman."  Weird.

[Tanya1]

depends how young you are, how your built,and genetics to an extent,
i started hrt at 20, and ive been on 10 months so far, but this photo (left was taken after 8 months:

enough difference for you?
R

that is more than enough. It looks like your bone structure got affected. It's a HUGE difference- you can barely recognize the person. did you have to change your driver's id?- i think you did!

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 02:23:46 PM

Tanya, you stated "HRT can't be anymore effective in a 17 yr old than that of a 30yr old in some cases."

I'm in agreement with everyone that said everyone is different. That's a very accurate statement.

To provide some medical statements from actual doctors specializing in HRT, MOST doctors agree that the younger a person transitions, the better the results. The physical effects of testosterone become permenant in most people around the age of 30. That's why, generally speaking, those that begin hormone therapy at a younger age have "better" results. At the average age of 40 (in the US), the effects that testosterone have on the body/face are harder to reverse.

There are a plethora of medical websites that exist that provide scientific proof and answers to some of the things that you're asking. I'm an advocate of reading actual medical reports as opposed to basing certian things on just what people say (that's not to discredit anything that anyone has posted here). My point is play it safe and do some research and see what science says.

Here's a snippet from http://secondtype.com/hormones.htm (the author is not a doctor, but reitterates the statements of those who have studied the subject in a very scientific manner)

The effects of female hormone treatment will vary considerably by individual, and can take 2 to 5 years to fully achieve.  In order to maximise the physical effects and benefits, hormone treatment should be begun as young as possible, before the body has completely matured and can no longer develop in response to stimuli.  The longer after male puberty (which typically ends by age 18) that female hormone therapy is started the less effective it will be - but not on a linear scale, the effects tail-off rapidly as time since puberty  increases.  For example, a woman starting hormones at age 20 may experience good breast development and a near cessation of facial hair growth, the same woman starting treatment at 30 will get considerably less breast development and only a slight reduction of facial hair growth, while if she started at 40 the effects will be less again, but not so significantly.

Best of luck to you!

great resource kelli!- It depends- I heard you should sleep good(for human growth hormones), getting circulation by cardio is important- it will absorb the hormones!- I heard that steriods are ineffective when guys don't workout because they need circulation- same thing with estro!


But I still agree that you should start young, it would be BEST to block testo at age 10 then take hormones(low dose) at 11, then increase it each year.

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 02:32:30 PM

I looked through some of your photos on the changes. Not to mention any names or hurt anyone's feelings but many of you DON'T look very feminime. Some ladies just have a very large frame and the HRT in my opinion and viewpoint it seemed to render little to no results on them. Maybe for them the results were substantial but I think it they were already very masculine, large frame, strong facial hair, big bone structure, lots of muscle mass, hieght etc- so the slightest changes seemed to be significant to them.

You have a wonderful way of starting a dialogue, Tanya, especially a dialogue in which you seek useful information.



Good luck. 

Wing Walker
Flying From This Thread With a Tailwind

you pass for a lady. not for a teenager or someone in their 20's or some pop star hottie but you pass as female.

[Lisbeth]

depends how young you are, how your built,and genetics to an extent,
i started hrt at 20, and ive been on 10 months so far, but this photo (left was taken after 8 months:

enough difference for you?
R

that is more than enough. It looks like your bone structure got affected. It's a HUGE difference- you can barely recognize the person. did you have to change your driver's id?- i think you did!

No, it's not.  It's the camera angle.

[Rachael]

depends how young you are, how your built,and genetics to an extent,
i started hrt at 20, and ive been on 10 months so far, but this photo (left was taken after 8 months:
http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n125/Belladonna_06/wtf1.jpg
enough difference for you?
R

uh, duh?
had to change it with my name... i dont think i fancy haveing a male photo on my drivers id
Lisbeth:
yes, your right, its totally the angle, i look identical!

[Lisbeth]

Lisbeth:
yes, your right, its totally the angle, i look identical!

So do I.

[Wing Walker]

you pass for a lady. not for a teenager or someone in their 20's or some pop star hottie but you pass as female.

Thank you for your expert eye and determination that I pass for a lady and not a teenager.

I am blessed beyond what I understand because I do fine with my own affirmations.  I don't need anyone else to make me feel comfortable and happy with myself.  It's not in appearance alone that I live.  I am positive of who I am, self-confident, and, possibly the most important attribute I have, I never questioned who I am.

Were someone to stop me in a store or on the street and ask about my gender I am ready to handle that.  It has never happened in five years.  My hands and feet are the size that they are.  I stand almost six feet *tall.* 

When I buy clothing I try it on before I pay for it.  When I need a new brassiere I go to a store where I can be properly measured, with my top and bra off.

I have never found anything other than the respect due a customer.

Perhaps the most rewarding thing about my physical transition to a female body is that my face, breasts, hips, thighs and bum are those of a teenager on a platform well past its teens.  I hope that we all look great forty years from the time we see our new bodies.

Wing Walker
Grinning Like the Cheshire Cat

[Ms Bev]

Hiya Tanya1.........

What's reasonable?....hmmmm....how many ways could I answer that? 
If you look at my avitar, the one on the left was me pre-hrt.  The one on the right is me post-hrt.  As you can see, I actually grew taller, got bigger feet, a better butt, and sprouted pigtails.  I also make good company for myself, as you can plainly see.  Oddly the one on the left looks older than the one on the right, and neither look my actual age!

Nods, "uh-huh"
Bev

[Wing Walker]

Hi, Bev,

I *love* that avitar!  Pretty clever and most original, for shore!

Wing Walker

[gothique11]

Well, i don't know how HRT will affect you. It affects people differently. There are no guarantees. Most people see some improvement in a year -- some lots, some not so much. Although age can help, I know people younger than me who've haven't had a lot of changes and I know people older than me that have looked pretty good. Genetics play a role. And so does the fairy god-mother.

Everyone is different, in other words. But, if you're trans than you'll take the risk that you might turn out wonderful or not so wonderful.

Maybe I'm on of those people that you don't think will pass. *shrugs* But, really, I don't care. I'll post a couple of pix for sh*ts and giggles, anyway. And, if you're really bored, you can check out my vlog by clicking on my profile. I don't really show my body in my vlogs. I think there is one where you get part of my body, which has changed since then. But really, I have nothing to prove to anyone (I'm just a camera whore. LOL)

I think that I look better in real life than through pictures. Pictures only say so much, since body language plays a role, so does voice, and so does seeing how many times you can spin around before you fall over. My vlog is as close as you'll get to seeing me in real life besides seeing me in real life.


Oh, and answers to your questions:

1)Some of you claim that you began hrt and the results were so significant. You said that many people noticed.- your body did change BUT I don't think it was very female looking. Considering that I'm young, not fully developed as a male and that for my age I'm not very manly looking. what changes are expected within 3 months? 6 months? 1yr?-

Well, eventually you'll turn into a cat.  >

Anyway, the serious answer: no body knows. There is no guarantee with HRT.

2) Now some of you claim that it will be "hard" to pass as a male.- is this really true?- because I looked at some of your pics that claimed this and honestly(not to hurt you) in my opinion I think you'd be better off passing as a male than female. now if you take into account that I'm much more shorter in height than most of you(lots of ppl here are 6 foot+), have a smaller frame, less masculine etc. do you think after 1 year of HRT- with AA's, estrogen(bio-ident) and progestorone(to maximise breasts and further feminize)  it will be "Hard" for me to pass as a male? and what I mean by that is- will i be mistaken for a female?, I don't mean whether or not I will have a people teasing me about having boobs, I mean- Will ppl think i'm female?

Oh yeah, I'm 8 feet tall *lol* I pass as a tree. You might pass as a bush if you try really, really hard. Will you look female? Maybe, maybe not.

3) Some of you say that ppl will know "something is up". What will they mostly say or question? what will they comment on? Will it be postive or negative? i heard your scent will change(you will smell more like a female) how will men percieve this? women?

People usually can figure that something is up. I've seen it with so many people who've gone on HRT. What triggers people? I don't know. It could be a number of things or the fact your wearing a skirt and have a beard shadow. *shurgs*

4) Now I don't care what some ppl say about facial changes. Hormones effect everything!- some ppl get facial changes others do not!- we are all diff. So since I read that facial changes take some more patience-after 1 yr of HRT, how significant will these changes be? Will people question or comment? negative or postive? If you take into consideration of my age, I don't have a thick Jawline and don't base your answers on your age & physical body, what can I expect it to do for me?- i have a problem with cheeks- I need more bubbly cheeks- my jawline is fine. Will women notice this? if so what will they comment or say?

Maybe they will, maybe they won't. Find a psychic and ask.

5) Now some of you will say that HRT can't affect height- it most certianly can in my view. Some of you claim to have lost an inch or 2. I have a goal to lose 2 1/2 inch-( want to be 5 3 1/2- Some of you said that this is mostly due to muscle mass-correct BUT hrt effects the bones too in my opinion. Some of you may have not gotten any height decrease and I don't think you can base your results to what I will get. Considering that I'm young, and haven't fully developed- is 2 1/2 inch a  possible decrease?- if someone older than me got 1 1/2 inch, don't you think I could possible get more decrease since hormones will affect me more?

You might lose hight, but you might not. Maybe you'll grow taller. You can also saw off your legs, that always is a sure way to lose height. Or, maybe, you just take things as they go rather than putting expectations on how things should be.

6)i want to decrease my shoe size to a women's 7 from a 9- is this possible?

Sure, if you cut your toes off. It might happen, but what if it doesn't? What if nothing you want out of HRT works? What if you go bald? What if you end up wearing a wig for the rest of your life. What if you start looking more masculine? What if HRT doesn't even work. What if a year into this you have some kid look you down and say, "You look like a boy in a dress!"

What if, what if, I want, I want, I expect, I expect, I think I'm better some how cause blah, blah, blah, this should happen cause and blah, blah, blah.

Yeah, I know, I'm being a bit of a b*tch.  >  But there is a point to this (really!) The point is this: there are no guarantees, and were all in the same boat so a holier-than-thou attitude will get you nowhere. People are not going to respect you, and honestly, the people you need for support are right here.

So what if people aren't perfect or you don't think they look like "girls" -- I say Kudos to every person who's had the guts to transition, to live full time, to go out into public and be willing to be laughed at just to be who they are. These people deserve our respect and love. Each and every one of them! Sure, maybe not everyone looks perfect, or acts perfect, or even sounds perfect -- No one is perfect. But, if someone is willing to have the guts to be who they are no matter the costs, they are amazing people.

7) what changes will happen on my legs?

My psychic powers say they will change to chicken legs and grow purple feathers. *grins*



And now ****drum roll!***** here's Natalie!


Before! (Yay, I look mean!)

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Took picture out.

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After! Told you that you can turn into a cat, just like me!

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Took picture out.

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Okay, seriously, After! (Yay, I look nice, but I'm still a B*tch when people put down my friends and the wonderful people in Susans!)

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Took picture out.

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--natalie  >

[cindybc]

Hi Natalie, can I be a camera whore to? I have a fairy godmother



Ooops wrong one.



Nope not that one either, that's my best friend from Long Island, next door to Montauk

Here she is,



Cindy

[Rachael]

example: i had to go to my grandmothers funeral: parents made me go as a boy dispite being ft at home (uni)
wearing a manish ponytail, and a suit and tie, guys stood back for me traveling there and back on the train etc. and at the funeral, the vicar asked my parents who thier other daughter was... yes, id say it CAN be hard to pass male for some.
although OP, you will notice its not everyone who says its hard to pass male, a lot of younger girls have the trouble, as there is greater change when young, its just fact... people like Debsl, Tink, Lynner, Redfish, Gothique, and i, for example, have trouble passing as male, but  then, what do we all have in common?
plus a lot of people on this site arnt over 6ft
i WAS 5'11, im now 5'9 (according to the nhs both times) which is hrts fault
R

[Wing Walker]

Hi, Natalie,

I love the way you cleared the air over what to expect from HRT.  Well-thought-out and funny as well.

Loyalty to one's friends is wonderful and I prize it highly.  As you continue on your journey please accept me to be with you in spirit or as a listening ear whenever you need one.  If I can't give you a good answer, I'll tell you so and not waste your time.

Respectfully,

Wing Walker

[gothique11]

I was 5'10" and I'm now 5'8". I used to be taller than my brother, but now I'm shorter and much, much smaller. It's creepy! *makes legs grow so she is now 10 feet tall* Muhahaha, now I can take over the world!!!!!

I'm pretty average for around here, I have a lot of friends that are the same size as me and several girls that are taller and bigger than me (frame wise). Since HRT I lost 40 pounds... it's craziness, and My body keeps on changing. So many of my tops are big now, so I need to get some more. Arg! Being a girl is expensive -- anyone want to lend me their credit card, I'll love you for ever. (J/k)


--natalie (meow!)



***Fun Fact of the DAY!!!!

Natalie's dad finally visited her since over a year. She last saw her dad May '06. Her dad came to visit out of the blue (maybe he realized that I wasn't just going through a "phase"), two weeks ago. He went to my appartment, and didn't recognize me down in the lobby. I had to go up to him and tell him that it was me. He was shocked. My own dad didn't even recognize me. And I'm now shorter than him, and much smaller. Creepiness! He commented on how small I looked. He was trying to cope with things, and we went out to lunch, and he's still having problems. I'm way to much for him. He hasn't talked to me since. I'm mad he won't tell my 13 yr old half-sister, and I'm basically shut out of her life.

As for my brother, he's back to not talking to me again. Word is, his wife (who hates me with a passion) is preggo. So, yeah, the fear is the my trans powers will affect the baby and it might turn out trans, or a mutant freak of some sort that doesn't fit with their bubble world view and they'd have to throw the baby to the trash just like they did to me. Yaynesss! My brother even blocked me from his facebook! Double Yayness!

I was glad that my brother started talking to me after 10 months after I was full time (so, he last saw me in June '06, then it was May when he finally saw me again). He didn't recognize me either. I had to go up to him and he looked at me for a second and said, "whoa!" it was kind of nice to think that he might be actually coming around, but it wasn't so true.

Family is just wonderful, aren't they! *groans*

But, anyway, beside hijacking things -- there is a point. People change in a lot of ways. People still can't believe that I'm a cat (meow). A speaking cat at that, with wonderful fur and an awesome tail with spikes on it, and laser beam eyes. Oh, and I can fly, too. *wow am I ever a weird one!*

***end of fun fact, now back to our regular programming*

[cindybc]

Hi, Natalie, hun,
I believe that we are going to be very good friends. I love your sense of humor, it doesn't differ much from mine. What's really ingenious is how to tell people the yin and yang of how things go without putting them down, but rather illustrating to them the possibility of the folly of their unrealistic aspirations, maybe ending up in left field at a different ballpark.

Some of the aspirations are just simply not realistic. Anyone with that kind of aspirations should start their transition by saying, "Our Father, who art in heaven..." as often as they can!

Cindy

[Rachael]

its funny i get told im inventing my hrt effects often... its been 10 months on hrt for me, and low dose at that (ill mention i do have higher natural hormone production (girl ones <-- am is) but ive been on bellow post op maintenance dose, and yet, ive gone from fleshyish chest, to a full B cup, had massive facial hair reduction to barely none, my voice changed. and is unreadable as male now... ive lost 3 shoes sizes and 2 inches in hight... i can walk past people ive not seen in a year, and they dont recognise me... its odd, and silly fast, but true...
R

[cindybc]

Hi Natalie I am 5' 3" 125 lbs shorter the a lot of people both women and guys maybe Hobbit size sometimes, like I would need a step ladder to see the top of my soul mates head. Well I won't have to do that unless she pics up purple hematite flees from Mars.

But if you grow to ten feet high I'll have to hire a bush plane to see the top of your head. By the way, hows the weather up there? Still ain't no snow on the mountains in Vancouver. Mt. Baker has snow on top of it, did you know it's a dormant volcano?

Cindy

[Berliegh]

I don't see a lot of difference between the before and after pics  apart from hairstyles, hair colour and in some cases beard removal....

I personally think hormones do very little and cannot change bone structure but you can achieve quite a lot from just doing the above....

In Rachael's case she has definitely a little more fat in her face and is probably a lot happier within herself more these days..  Depression can affect someone's facial expression and the old pic looks like an old passport photo  pic......

[gothique11]

Sure, okay, all I had to do was shave and grow my hair out to look like a woman! Why did I even go on these hormones? And, wow, so many people in the real world who see me day to day must be really nice and putting me on or something. Strangers must be getting nicer, cause they no longer keep looking and treating me like I'm a boy in a dress. Must me my laser cat vision -- they are scared that I'll use it on them. *zap*

oh, wait, I cut my hair, wore make up, and even shaved before I went on HRT. Lookies!

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Took picture out.

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Erm, that's not right. I kind of look male still. Strange?

Oh wait, a time when I was dressed as female pre-hrt. Okay, this is a cute picture, but you don't see my body and even though I could x-dress pretty well in order to "pass" I would still get clocked from time to time. My body was very male then, strange enough.
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Took picture out.

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But, still, arg! I don't get bothered these days like those days. This is so confusing. Why don't any of my old boy clothes fit? Why has my skin changed?

And I don't understand people still called me a guy pre-hrt, even with shaving and make up. This is weirdness!

So, if I haven't changed much at all, I must really look like a boy. It's got to be the smile that maybe tricks people. Oh, and don't forget the hair, it's all in the hair! I've got to pull more pictures out!

Okay, lets try this one!

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Took picture out.

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Okay, okay, that one isn't good. I'm smiling too much -- I'm trying to find a bad picture of myself, one where I'm not smiling (it's so hard not to smile these days!) Anyway, ah-ha! Here's a bad picture of me. Does that work?

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Took picture out.

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I give up! Yep, you are right HRT does very little, and there's no real use of it. All we have to do is shave and get a nice girly hair cut and wear a bit of make up (or not). Wow, HRT is such a waste of time! We just need to change our hair colour, get a hair cut, and get rid of these beards and we'd be set! How wunderbar! Think of the money savings!

There's just one thing: I just can't understand where these boobs come from? They are a mystery. It must be the boob fairy! And my waist, it wasn't like this before. And my hips. None of my both clothes fit, and these girl clothes seem to fit really well... but they didn't before when I x-dressed. Weirdness! Something freaky is going on for a little pit that does very little.


-- Natalie, who apparently still looks like a boy, cause HRT actually has no affect... it was really my hair cut all along! o_O




Posted on: October 18, 2007, 04:51:45 AMTo add to this:

I think that everyone looks wonderful, and I can see how the HRT has affected you and made your life better. Applaud yourselves, your a group of wonderful ladies with the courage to be who you are. And that is something that no one can take away from you. Never let anyone take a way your womanhood. Be proud of who you are and where you are going. Very few people in this world ever find themselves and then have the guts to be who they are.

No one is perfect. We all might have physical flaws, everyone in the world does. But what we do have is our spirits and our dignity, and that shines through beyond the physical.

(vise versa for our wonderful FtM group, too, you're just as amazing!)

--natalie

Posted on: October 18, 2007, 05:15:21 AMAnd one more thing:

I know I probably sound bad and a bit sarcastic. I just don't like it when people are put down. I hope that I haven't hurt anyone's feelings (and I don't mean to). Everyone has the right to an opinion, even if they say that we don't look good or HRT doesn't really do much. Just like I have the opinion that we are all amazing in our own ways, and each of us bring our own point of view to the board which completes a mosaic.

I've been in a weird mood lately, and I've just been a bit more vocal about what I think and my take on things. If what I write does offend someone, I'm sorry about that. I love everyone here, even if they have a different view point. Even if they thought I was ugly, mean, and a horrible person, I'd still be there for them when it came down to it.

So, anyway, take my words with a grain of salt. I know that sometimes I can get carried away with being a bit sarcastic when I think people say stuff that I feel puts others down. But I still stand by what I think, and that is that we are all just amazing people and I'm so lucky to know all of you and to be in a message board where so many great people hang out. People who just want to be themselves, which is the most honorable thing that one can do.

Love and peace to all,


--Natalie, the flying cat with laser-beam eyes. 

[Jeannette]

Im quite impressed by the changes.  Normally it takes around one year to notice the main changes & one more extra year for the changes to settle in.

[cindybc]

Anyone who thinks that hormones don't work, perhaps they can tell me where I got 20 year old boobs on this 62 year old body. Well I got my dollar's worth from the hormones and certainly not disappointed with the results. I don't have any pics from when I was guy mode.

I can even wear knee-length sun dresses with spaghetti straps and guys are nearly driving off the road from craning their heads around as they drive by. Not bad, not bad at all, not bad for a 62 year old.  People have asked me how old I am and the surprised look on their faces when I tell them my age says it all. I have even been carded as only being in my mid thirties by some. It's just priceless to see them react the way they do. So maybe I am like my soul mate said, the type where all one needs to do is add estrogen to turn them into a woman.

So for anyone that doesn't believe the hormones don't do much, may the Bird of Paradise crap on their new hairdo