Where's the "Life" part?

[LiliFee]

Wow Amy Rachel, thanks for your words! Giving hope, and lifting the veil a bit on what might come

Makes me so happy!

[Mariah]

Totally agree. Now I can focus on on work, my fiancé, family, and friends. In other words, just living my life. Hugs
Mariah

Well, other than dilation, post-op life is pretty much the same as pre-op life but with different stuff under my clothing.

[MelissaB]

That's basically it, unless we're celebrity, nobody is interested in other people's mundane lives, after transition life just moves on, working in jobs and dating, 6 years ago I eventually married a man, now a fulltime housewife, it's not important enough for discussion, cooking and cleaning, just another boring housewife, grocery shopping, housekeeping, and woman's problems, life goes on.

I think what you just said is kind of what someone like myself... on the other side of the fence and wondering what exactly it's like on your side.  How does life change after for you?  What's different?  What's better?  What are the downsides?  How do you feel about yourself - is that any different?  How does it change your relationships?

OK I know that's like a ton of questions all at once.

Your "mundane" life as a housewife sounds quite lovely BTW - for whatever that is worth

[MelissaB]

Just pulling this up to put out some ideas of what we might talk about in terms of "post op life" that goes beyond recovering from surgery, dilation schedules, or the banality of picking up groceries.

For me, now in my middle age after transitioning in my early thirties, it's actually been quite profound, possibly because I was lucky enough and stubborn enough to maintain my narrative privacy.  My friendships with women, for example, are significantly different.  How I feel about sex (and what I like to do in the bedroom) has changed immensely.  How I relate to my parents has changed.  In new work situations, the social dynamics are different.  How to practice effective leadership is different.  Even my memories have changed.

I feel like it all comes naturally now, but those first couple of years it was like riding a razor's edge.  I hope to write about these experiences soon, in separate threads, but for this one... anyone else have some ideas for general areas of interest to write about?

OK... where/how do I find these posts?  Very curious to hear the detail on all of this.  Feel free to PM me if that is easier.

[Mariah]

I can't speak for others, but as far as how has life changed for me in regards to those questions. The big change is at first the very frequent dilation schedule and how it impacts things. Relearning how to bathe, wash and just take care of that area I mean I knew how, but you gradually learn the best way for you to get things really clean and hygienic. Your view of your body really changes. It's a oneness with my body, a wholeness or completeness. You start to forget what it was even like to have what you had before as things feel and appear more natural. Being that I'm in engaged I'm even more hyper aware when my fiancé reaches down into that area without even realizing he is doing it at first I suppose that is a change that I can see coming from his side of this. Before he didn't reach down near that area and now he is unconsciously and consciously doing so. I like that, but have had to divert his hand since that area is off limits for a bit.

Different are the dilations for life. The wholeness and being comfortable in my body. The rest was mentioned in the first part of my response because those things are what is different too and really both questions could be broadly be answered the same way at this point.

What's better for me going to the bathroom is so much easier and comfortable. Before I was self conscious when I went into the ladies room despite knowing I belonged. Now I don't give it a second thought. It's so much quicker actually to wipe compared to wiping the mess that was before. My happiness has gone up. I was happy before but this is like way above  that. It's true clothing does fit better too.

The downsides so far is the higher risk of infection and the dilations, but I wouldn't trade those for anything because being whole outweighs the negative. After all the dilation frequency decreases eventually and well the risk can be controlled with excellent hygiene habits.

Whole, complete and natural are how I feel about myself at this stage. I'm content and now preparing my body with the dilations to some day allow something enjoyable for both my fiancé and I to enjoy which I can't wait. Anyways those are my responses to your questions. I really do think that I know it's hard to see and imagine before being post op but for the most part it's one of those things that closes a chapter and allows you to start the next chapter in your life. Anyways. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah

I think what you just said is kind of what someone like myself... on the other side of the fence and wondering what exactly it's like on your side.  How does life change after for you?  What's different?  What's better?  What are the downsides?  How do you feel about yourself - is that any different?  How does it change your relationships?

OK I know that's like a ton of questions all at once.

Your "mundane" life as a housewife sounds quite lovely BTW - for whatever that is worth

[Mariah]

Try using the search option and if that doesn't work have google search the site. Hugs
Mariah

OK... where/how do I find these posts?  Very curious to hear the detail on all of this.  Feel free to PM me if that is easier.

[Sophia Sage]

I think what you just said is kind of what someone like myself... on the other side of the fence and wondering what exactly it's like on your side.  How does life change after for you?  What's different?  What's better?  What are the downsides?  How do you feel about yourself - is that any different?  How does it change your relationships?

Everything is different. But again, I live my life with narrative privacy and passing privilege -- everyone treats me like any other woman, which is different than being treated like someone who's known to be trans.  This is typically called "stealth" but that's entirely the wrong word as far as I'm concerned.

Anyways, gender is so pervasive, at least in the West, and especially in the U.S., and it mediates all kinds of social dynamics.  Men treat me differently, women treat me differently, lovers treat me differently, workers treat me differently, the public treats me differently. 

What's better, aside from being gendered correctly (which includes the kind of sex I can have), is having relationships that hinge on more on empathy and understanding than anything else, especially with other women.  The downside is less privilege (though the men here would probably say the opposite).  In a nutshell.

OK... where/how do I find these posts?  Very curious to hear the detail on all of this.  Feel free to PM me if that is easier.

Alas, the only thread I've started so far was "Female Friendships, Mum's The Word" here in the post-op sub-forum.

The thing is, once you get into living the life, it becomes much less important to, well, hang out on boards with a trans focus.  Because most of the people here are oriented around transition -- deciding whether to do it, or what it's like getting started, getting support while it's going on, and then dealing with various surgeries and the aftermath of such.

From there, there are basically two paths -- stick around and "be trans" on a more or less permanent basis, or step back into larger society and be a part of the gender binary, which is what I did.  (And sure, you can travel both paths simultaneously, for a while, but this is the general way of it.)  I haven't haunted a board like this in many, many years -- well over a decade, and closer to two.  I was kind of hoping to find some kindred spirits and exchange experiences, but this board isn't really oriented around my choices, and most women who've done what I've done have had no reason to come back and share -- or maybe they have, and I just missed them. 

So, I've been chiming in elsewhere with my own perspective, helping where I can.  And, frankly, I've been busier in real life than I expected (I'm in a bit of a transitional phase in my real life, which is why I sought out a board regarding transition in the first place) and just haven't had the impetus to write. 

[MelissaB]

Thank you Mariah and Sophia.  It is good to hear from others and get the perspective of what it's likely to be like if you go down a particular path.  Sophia if you know other women like yourself please encourage them to post.  I totally understand where you are coming from as far as why you would simply fade into life, if you will.  I know we are mostly concerned with where we are today and the immediate future on here, but hearing from someone that has walked the path and is no longer in the middle of the day to day issues of transition is very comforting.

[LiliFee]

From there, there are basically two paths -- stick around and "be trans" on a more or less permanent basis, or step back into larger society and be a part of the gender binary, which is what I did.  (And sure, you can travel both paths simultaneously, for a while, but this is the general way of it.)  I haven't haunted a board like this in many, many years -- well over a decade, and closer to two.  I was kind of hoping to find some kindred spirits and exchange experiences, but this board isn't really oriented around my choices, and most women who've done what I've done have had no reason to come back and share -- or maybe they have, and I just missed them. 

So, I've been chiming in elsewhere with my own perspective, helping where I can.  And, frankly, I've been busier in real life than I expected (I'm in a bit of a transitional phase in my real life, which is why I sought out a board regarding transition in the first place) and just haven't had the impetus to write.

Please know there are kindred spirits, even though you might not have found the answers you were looking for right away. Your posts have helped me a great deal, and I hope mine have shed some light onto your situation as well.

As far as choices go, I'm ever more inclined to walk your path. Which is a privilege, but as we can have it, why not? Perhaps I don't have the 20 years of experience under my belt that you've got in doing this, but we each have our own story. Mine has revolved around some of the same topics, I'm sure. Perhaps the most important thing I was trying to ask you is HOW it worked out for you and in what way it colored your life and choices. Maybe I asked too many questions, or perhaps I gave the impression of being a vanguard of a new generation. This wasn't the point of it, as I'm slowly starting to see there's this other possibility (going "mum") and how much it pleases me. To be done with it all, and to be normal. A part of the binary: yes. But also somebody who's got a unique take on life, not making me any less of a woman.

So, in a nutshell: I'm sorry for possibly spoiling your experience here (at least in this topic). Actually it's also been a decade since I've last been on such a forum, and your insights and stories have helped me more than most others.

PM me if you want, I'd love to chat more

[Miss Lux]

I understand what you mean.... I am post op for many years and has been living stealth... Just speaking for myself... I know it's a bit selfish but life goes on and u try to make up for lost childhood/young adult life so u start to live life....I for one only visits the site when I am planning on a certain procedure and needs opinion and recommendations... Hangout for a little bit , for a few months and then live life again... For me my being a transgender never really comes up or has never been an issue in my post - op life, relationships, work etc. ....  Just like anybody there's still ups and downs and disappointments... Heartbreaks has been usually due to personality incompatibilities never about my past ( i don't reveal- to each her own).... But prior to my grs/srs i felt like everything revolves around my being a transgender and I had to explain myself all the time..... Basically life goes on.....

[Sophia Sage]

@Melissa:  The other women like myself whom I know personally are not inclined to post here, or anywhere so public in general.  There's too much life to live.  They'd want to speak freely (this board in particular is too big, too structured, and too policed for their needs), without fear of doxxing or being subjected to the judgment of others. 

@MissLux:  Like you, I'll probably be around for only a while.  I too had to attend to some transitional matters -- finding a new electrologist, and re-educating myself on the latest knowledge regarding hormones, but I've also had to attend to things like being between jobs and providing home health assistance to my elderly parents.  As you say, life goes on, and most of those choices really have nothing to do with gender at all, or the narratives of the past, if we don't let them. 

@Elineq:  How has it worked out for me?  Beautifully.  For me, living this life is what it took to get rid of all my dysphoria.  But I'm also extremely lucky.  I have family who are on board, and that's been hugely important to my happiness.  As to how it colored my life and choices, well, that's kind of hard to answer.  I'm happy, I'm gendered female, and I continue to live a woman's life.  I've grown in my confidence.  I make a decent living, but I'm by no means wealthy.  I've had a rich sex life, and I anticipate that continuing.  I'm more inclined to seek out new experiences.  I cry when I'm hurt, and cautious when I'm scared.  And sure, I have a unique take on life... but so does every other woman in the world. 

[DawnOday]

As much as the title has life in it, it seems off topic to me. If I made a thread about buying groceries and complaining about the price of petrol I imagine people would be  . Seems more suited to social media.

What the heck is petrol?      Just kidding. You must live across the pond.

[Karen_A]

@Melissa:  The other women like myself whom I know personally are not inclined to post here, or anywhere so public in general.  There's too much life to live.  They'd want to speak freely (this board in particular is too big, too structured, and too policed for their needs), without fear of doxxing or being subjected to the judgment of others. 

I agree this board is too public to share a lot, and there is more moderation than I think is desirable for a full discussion of some issues...

But even in a private group among only post-ops, judgements are made and arguments can be intense and intensely personal....

I assume you have heard the old joke:

What is the difference between  Terrorist and a transsexual?
You can argue with a terrorist

Has a kernel of truth to it, perhaps particularly among post-ops...

Years ago I was on private post-op only mailing list that had new post-ops and some who had been stealth for decades.

While all was well for awhile, eventually arguments about lifestyle tore it apart and destroyed it.

I don't know what the answer is... I think we all benefit by hearing and trying to understand the different paths we walk and why we walk them.

A group that is just an echo chamber of the like minded individuals  IMO is not that helpful to those starting out, who need to figure out what is best for them...

Heated discussion is not a bad thing, but how to have them while maintaining respect and keeping the space safe enough so people feel OK in sharing is not something easily done if possible at all...

But I also am convinced not allowing, or refusing to participate, in such discussions is unhelpful to say the least.

- Karen

[Sophia Sage]

even in a private group among only post-ops, judgements are made and arguments can be intense and intensely personal....

Years ago I was on private post-op only mailing list that had new post-ops and some who had been stealth for decades. While all was well for awhile, eventually arguments about lifestyle tore it apart and destroyed it.

Hi Karen,

Yeah, that's true.  I was on a private board back in the day, and it fell apart because someone eventually argued it was moral to be out and proud, implying of course that not being out and proud was immoral.  Needless to say, the ensuing conversation did not go well.

Simply being post-op doesn't mean there's a shared set of values, a shared intention. I think a shared intention is what's key to small groups being successful. 

I don't know what the answer is... I think we all benefit by hearing and trying to understand the different paths we walk and why we walk them.

A group that is just an echo chamber of the like minded individuals  IMO is not that helpful to those starting out, who need to figure out what is best for them...

Also true.  A board like this is best suited to those just starting out and getting through their surgeries. Which is when most transitioners need the most amount of support.

It's also, though, the time to seriously consider what kind of life can be led after all that is done.  It's much easier to step into a life without being out to see if it's right for you, and then come out if it's not right, than it is vice-versa.

Heated discussion is not a bad thing, but how to have them while maintaining respect and keeping the space safe enough so people feel OK in sharing is not something easily done if possible at all...

But I also am convinced not allowing, or refusing to participate, in such discussions is unhelpful to say the least

At least here I've found that while some resist the idea of going all the way, of living without the story of being trans, the tone of such objections has not, in general, been scathing or derisive or outright hostile. Which is probably due, in part, to the strong moderation here.  So there's that.

But I am also convinced that no one has the obligation to participate if it contradicts what they need to heal. 

[Miss Clara]

I'm post-everything now.  I'm finally spending time on things other than transition.  Those were exciting years, of course.  Calling it a journey is very apropos, as most journeys are exciting.  But every journey eventually comes to an end, and that is where I now am.  Like others have expressed, it's back to just living now.  The journey's destination is something everyone should keep in mind before setting out into the unknown.   RLE (real life experience) doesn't come close to preparing you for what life is really like as a woman post-transition.

Where I live now, no one knows about my trans past. That suits me.  I've fallen into a pattern in which the thoughts of my gender are slipping into the background. Gender used to be the first thing that came to mind on awakening each day.  My trans friends are slipping away.  In many cases, the only thing we had in common was our transitions.  It surprises me how little I really knew about those friends.

Do I feel like a woman? I used to ask myself that question a lot. But tell me, what does a woman feel like? What does a man feel like? I don't really know. I can only say that I feel like myself.

I can say I'm happier now. I'm not as anxious, impatient, quick to anger. I'm less critical of myself and others. I love life and the people whose lives touch mine in some meaningful way. I like myself. I can look in the mirror now and not see some stranger.

But otherwise, I'm pretty much who I always was. That shouldn't be surprising. We are who we are. Changing gender doesn't change who we are intrinsically.  It's more like shedding a skin which has become too constraining, and discovering something new underneath.  I'm more honest about who I am now, and free to express myself honestly.  That's huge.

[anne_indy]

Thank you all who have written. Some time ago I asked the question "to those you are more than a couple of years post-op, has the transition been worth the effort, the losses, the overhead of transition? ".  There were no replies to that inquiry. Still on the other side of the transition I wondered whether 5 years, 10 years later would I be content with what I had done, and the struggles not only for myself but for those who would have to go through the process with me, especially my family.

The replies here have answered that in part. It seems that for many of you, you have just become normal women, or men. To me that seems hopeful.


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[Ms Grace]

I'm only two weeks post op, already it feels life changing in a positive way. I guess I won't know for months or even years how that will ultimately play out...but I'm hopeful it will continue to go well.

[Sophia Sage]

Thank you all who have written. Some time ago I asked the question "to those you are more than a couple of years post-op, has the transition been worth the effort, the losses, the overhead of transition? ".  There were no replies to that inquiry. Still on the other side of the transition I wondered whether 5 years, 10 years later would I be content with what I had done, and the struggles not only for myself but for those who would have to go through the process with me, especially my family.

The replies here have answered that in part. It seems that for many of you, you have just become normal women, or men. To me that seems hopeful.

For me, the answer to that question is unambiguously, "Yes, it was completely worth it."

"Every day is a bonus day," my good friend out west says.

[Sharon Anne McC]

*

I have heard how some outside the 'community' express their impression that we live every moment of our existence in thought of our trans anatomical conditions.  Allow me to join this thread and persuade them to re-assess their perception.

For me anyway:

- the thoughts were in my mind when it was a medical endeavour. 

- I was forced to think about it while fighting for my employment life twice fired for being trans. 

- It becomes apparent when I participate in the various trans support groups.

Otherwise, my life is just life:

- I don't wake up telling myself that I am trans. 

- I don't take my daily shower thinking I am trans. 

- I don't drive my car or ride the city bus thinking that I do so because I am trans.

- I don't go about my errands and activities thinking that I am trans. 

- I don't take my medicines thinking it is because it treats my trans.   

- I don't do my 'sessions' thinking about my trans. 

- I don't shop for groceries and think it is because I am trans. 

- I do not cook and eat my meals thinking that I do so because I am trans. 

- I do not socialise with friends talking only about trans; people outside my trans-specific life do not know of my situation.

- I go to my physicians and gynecologist for the medical necessity as any female, not thinking I go because I am trans.

- I don't watch TV, listen to the radio, read with the thought that I am trans. 

- I do not go to sleep thinking that I had a trans day and dream of trans issues during my sleep.  Okay, maybe there was one exception from the old days - I endured 'morning sickness' from my early ERT which led to night-time dreams of various stages of pregnancy.  Then again, cis females get 'morning sickness' and have sleep-time dreams of pregnancy.

Reality goes far more than trans - life is more than trans.

I gave little thought to my trans life between the time of my first firing for being trans (mid-1980s) til the latest time my employer fired me for being trans (late-2000s).  Nor do I now obsess on it.

There are likely important points of our lives, but that we do not dwell on them except for the rare, specific times when they take priority.  Otherwise, that matter plays an non-significant notion to our living.

No?

*

[Michelle_P]

I do believe Sharon has nailed it.  Life is what we do.  Being a transgender person is part of it, but it just doesn't have much of an impact on the day to day routine.  I get up, have breakfast, clean up.  I "put myself together" like any woman.  I go out and about to take care of errands, fulfill the daily necessities, and generally get on with life.  It's all pretty much what any woman does, transgender or not.

The 'transgender' thing is really only a concern at a few private points in the day where my transitional state makes things like bathroom use a little trickier, trying to avoid my dysphoria triggers, or elsewhere when someone else decides to make it an issue.  That's been rare so far, fortunately.

This morning I got up, made coffee, had breakfast, took my meds, made an appointment for a routine checkup after the new doctor mail-nagged me, and now I'm about to get dressed and head over to Ikea to get some small office furniture to help me with my volunteer (ham radio license) examiner duties.  I may get lunch there.  This afternoon I'll get in a walk, assemble furniture, maybe go out for a coffee break.  I'll make dinner, perhaps watch the local news, tinker with getting props together for a class, and finally read a little, and go to bed.

It's just life.  Live it.  Beats the heck out of the alternative!  We get on with it like anyone else. 


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