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Science Discussions - exploration, research, design - the choice is yours!

Started by Teri Anne, October 16, 2007, 11:55:51 PM

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Teri Anne

In this thread, feel free to discuss any SCIENCE TOPIC.  Here's a few to consider and perhaps discuss:

1.  Several of us are interested in astronomy, the planets, universe and big bang theory.  Two of us have the theory that there are other universes beyond our universe.  Upon exiting our universe some day, perhaps we'll see stars in the far distance (immesurable in our time) and these stars might be other universes?  The formation of our solar system and planets opens up other avenues of discussion.  Our universe is around 14.7 billion years old but our solar system is only around 4 to 5 billion years old.  Evolution is always a provocative topic.  Natural disasters (like the meteor that struck near the Yucatan Peninsula in Mexico and caused mass death of animals including dinosaurs) can be interesting to discuss.  While we're looking out for a meteor, will a volcano kill us?

2.  Body and brain chemistry (stress, fear, confusion, paranoia).  Why do humans react as they do?  Do Budhist priests have insight that we should consider in learning to control stress?

3.  Alternate forms of energy production.  I'm interested about the prospect of turbines being placed in seas where there are strong currents (The Tacoma Narrows or Golden Gate come to mind).  The turbines have been tested to show that they move slowly enough that fish just swim around them.  Does ethanol actually create global warming (some say more petro energy is used to create ethanol than we get out of it)?  Are there better ways?

4.  Future transportation.  Will the auto industries and our government ever get around to doing a multi-billion dollar research plan to create autos that would free us from having to buy foreign oil from dangerous countries?  Do you think cars will ever break from the bland rounded-bar-of-soap look of today's cars?  Why can't cars have the glamor and excitement of cars produced in the 30's, 40's and 50's?  Will fenders ever come back?  Will solar roofs become common?

5.  Future architecture.  Will there ever be another Frank Lloyd Wright who uses a combination of art and SCIENCE to build? (he popularized cantilevers, radiant heating, cement (he called it a "plastic material), building the way nature builds (looking at trees and rock formations for inspiration), building WITH nature (rather than just on top of it).  In an ecology-minded world, thinking about nature in home construction seems like a no-brainer.  Some tract builders are using energy saving devices (like solar) in homes they build.  Can't they learn to use science, the way Bucky Fuller did (geodesic dome) to create truly new spaces? 

4.  Transsexual research -- Why are we here?  What studies have been or are being done?  Did the hormonal soup in the womb of our mothers contribute to this process?  Some point out that the brain forms at one point and the body forms at another point and, if there is a different makeup of this hormonal soup, the body can end up one way and the brain another way.

These are just a few of the possibilities.  Unlike other threads, feel free to discuss your specific interest, as long as it's something to do with SCIENCE...exploration, technology, research, design...

The choice is yours!

Teri Anne

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cindianna_jones

I've always wondered why the world is so slow to accept some science and so readily swallow it whole when it benefits them directly?

For example... many believe that the world is only 6000 years old although there is ample evidence to prove otherwise.  Yet those same believers will stand in line for heart surgery brought to them by the same science. 

What gives?

Cindi
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Seshatneferw

For some it's just the other way around: they believe in modern cosmology but will happily take homeopatic 'medicine' (aka plain water) because they see it as more natural than what's available from the pharmacy. I guess we all choose our own brand of irrationality.

  Nfr
Whoopee! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but it's a long one for me.
-- Pete Conrad, Apollo XII
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cindybc

Nikola Teslas Tower the electromagnetic perpetual motion power generator

http://www.pbs.org/tesla/ll/ll_todre.html

The Montauk project and the Philadelphia experiment

http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/montauk.html

I was on Long Island two years ago when I was visiting a friend. I got to see both Tesla's lab and the Montauk concrete  bunkers, all cemented shut now to keep people from going to the labs in the lower sections of the complex. Then there is Camp Hero which still stands but windows and doors are securely boarded up and some entrances are cemented over. Weird energy still vibrating there? You wanna bet, like a giant heart beat beneath your feet. 

Cindy

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BCL

We only have one world, with the resources that we have.

I would like to see much more research into alternative fuels or power sources (solar power, wind, hydroelectric are good examples of past research).

As the oil resources dry up, fuel costs wil escalate as manufacturers make a fast buck. It may not effecr us, here today but the generations to come need to be less dependent on Oil as the main source of fuel energy.

As much as it is revered, I also feel that Genetically Modified food is also the way forward, to be able to grow crops free from disease, in conditions they may not be used to (especially Africa) and to also come up with some viable alternatives to Meat Products (but thats a vegetarian speaking).

It may be that eventually the Human Race (whoever may be left) has a future on planets outside our current knowledge of our Solar system, so that to me is another reason for continuing with the Space Programme.

Jeez can you tell I am a Scientist.

Rebecca
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Lori

"In my world, everybody is a pony and they all eat rainbows and poop butterflies!"


If the shoe fits, buy it in every color.
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lisagurl

Frank Gehry Architecture

http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/Guggenheim_Bilbao.html

Change to fusion when the technology is ready and run cars on hydrogen. Save oil for plastic.
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cindybc

Hi  Rebecca
I am just a retired Social Worker that just happens to know a lot about this stuff. As for alternative fuels our governments or should I say the oil cartels or corporations are the ones behind deciding what is economical for them to to produce or not. Manufacturing alternate fuels is not in their best interest.

Since the early 70's maybe even sooner then that there have been some really great minds that have come up with some potentially wonderful alternate fuel powered vehicles but just appear to have disappeared from the face of the earth overnight. The oil cartels just buy up these ideas that could be detrimental to them economically and as a result these ideas never resurface to see day light again. 

I knew the person, personally, that came out with the first gasohol fueled vehicle idea. He lived in the same home town I did. This vehicle was simply a conventional half ton truck he had converted to run on gasohol. And how about Tesla with his plans to produce a perpetual energy generator that could supply the entire world with free energy? He was diagnosed as a certifiable loonie and they riped him off for any and all patents he had and he died a broken man.

The corporations or shall we call them the Cabal are the puppeteer's of the political puppets and most of this Cabal is formed by corporations, or corporation money. Now all I have written is a disclaimer. I am just a very nosy curious woman that has her nose in a lot of stuff maybe I shouldn't.

Cindy
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Teri Anne

Cindy J and NFR - Yes, history shows how we humans will readily accept some science as gospel and some as quakery.  I've thought that the ancient theory of a flat earth with a finite end where you would fall off the edge bears striking resemblance to today's scientific presumption that our universe is all there is out there.  And a big black void is beyond that?  Science, we should remember, is made up of a group of theories, any of which can be believed or disproven over time.

Time is beginning to show that Eastern medicine (including herbs, meditation, and accupuncture), once thought to be quakery is now being suggested by traditional M.D.'s.

Cindy bc, the Tesla tower, even though it didn't work, was certainly beautiful.  Is it still standing?  I wonder how he created the globe?  Is that a predecessor to Bucky's domes?

BCL - I agree totally on the need to find alternative energy.  If anyone's interested, the Tacoma Narrows underwater current hydro energy project is cited here (Tacoma is south of Seattle):

http://www.tacomapower.com/Tidal/default.htm

Lori, I thought your recommended website, "http://www.globalwarmingisnotreal.com/whatyoucando.html," was going to argue that, well, global warming wasn't real.  I was happy to see that it, instead, contained a list of suggestions that we can do on our own to ward off global warming (recycling, energy conservation).  Regarding planting trees, I've sometimes wondered why cities, states and the national government don't get more involved with that.  In Los Angeles, for example, there's a HUGE park in the hills called Griffith Park.  While some areas have trees, much of it, aside from scrub brush, is just barren hillside (to my eyes).  A large-scale tree planting program would add beauty, utility (the trees could help diminish some of L.A.'s smog).  I guess the problem is two-fold:  Prioritization of money and the fight with ecology fanatics that might ensue.  Many LIKE the scrub brush the way is is because that's the way the land has always been.  I do wonder if, with trees, the park would become a better habitat for animals (in the same way that coral in the ocean creates a home for fish).

Lisagurl, I like Frank Gehry's architecture (we have our own version of the Bilbao - the Disney Concert Hall in Los Angeles).  Though incredible computer science is required to create specs for the curved steel that make up his larger buildings, I personally think of Gehry as more of an artist than a science or even architecture-oriented architect.  I think I've read some things where he has admitted to having more interest in art -- not that there's anything wrong with that, lol.

There's an architect in the San Diego area that I feel is using science and technology more like Frank LLoyd Wright would have:  Ken Kellogg.  I truly believe that he's the greatest Organic Architect (the kind of architecture started by FLLW)practicing today.  His website is below:

http://www.kendrickbangskellogg.com

Cindy bc, you and I were discussing visions...  I just saw a show on Animal Planet called "Animal Miracles."  It showed how a dog was able to sense when a senile adult was in danger and would alert others of this fact.  Also, a recent story on CNN was about a cat in a rest home that could predict by its actions when a live-in patient was going to die.  It would sit beside the patient to give them a sense of peace.  Normally, the cat would not sit on their beds.  It seems odd that a patient could derive peace, seeing this cat next to them, but patients apparently became very calm and mellow.  If cat's have this talent of vision or sensing, there's no reason to believe that some humans also have capability of visions.  I'm keeping an open mind on this.

THANKS to everone for the diverse topics.  Interesting!

Teri Anne

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Lori

Terri the main basis of that site is to discuss how its not man made global warming but blames the sun. It pretty clearly states how CO2 is being blamed and its BS...and so is Al Gore.

Its also about how humans are wasteful and although they do cause pollution and are ruining the planet, they can be more mindful and conservative and start being so wasteful.
"In my world, everybody is a pony and they all eat rainbows and poop butterflies!"


If the shoe fits, buy it in every color.
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Teri Anne

Lori, well, as it probably states somewhere on the site, no matter the cause, we can all do our bit to try to ward off global warming.  It may all boil down to million year cycles.  I saw a Discovery documentary recently that claimed that, in a few million years, there may be another ICE AGE that will cover Canada and the upper half of the U.S..  It showed the ice glaciers dwarfing the size of today's skyscrapers in New York City.  Well, you know what they say, "location, location, location."

As to humans being "wasteful" - Since when, lol?

Teri Anne
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cindybc

Hi again,

About the Global Warming thing:  It is once more being debated by the scientific community. They say it is the Sun, or to be more precise, Sun flares, that are creating global heating on Mars and Earth.

Now it is being debated that it was the unusual Sun flairs and global warming on Mars that gave the researchers working for whomever is profiting from this a reason to inform us that it is because of unusual Sun flares that are heating up Mars just like our planet.

I believe that Mars warming by increased sunlight was just a good grab to divert the idea of C02 being blamed for global warming on our planet.  Although it would stand to reason that as more of the C02 sublimates into the Martian atmosphere it may have something to do with Mars warming as well.

OK, NASA has taken a much closer look at Mars in the past while and they have come up with some pretty interesting discoveries. It appears that the global sand storms have been increasing in the past 4 years causing the darker rocky under-surface to be dusted off by the winds and leaving the darker rocky under-surface bare and exposed to sunlight. These dark areas attract the sunlight that warms the rocky surface which takes considerably longer to cool then its sandy surrounding counterparts.

So it is this process that is causing the C02 ice on the south pole to sublimate at a rate of three meters per year. Not the insignificant increase of sunlight, but more the albedo of the planet has increased because of the increased warming caused by the planet wide sand storms.

Martian spring.

Cindy   

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 04:13:59 PM
Hi Terri
I wish I could remember what the site was where they had the cycles between ice ages separated like the four seasonal cycles of one year. One year = the time between ice ages. When an ice age is coming to an end it is spring, followed by summer where we should be at this point, in early part of summer. Then there is fall, followed by winter, another ice age.

According to this scale we should only be in early summer, but with the global warming this cycle has been increased so that now we find ourselves in the early part of fall.

Cindy     
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lisagurl

There is little argument that the earth is going into a warming cycle. Why?is another matter. No one is sure of the causes. Most of the marketing is around theories. A fix reducing CO2 to any level to make a difference would cost more than anybody can pay. It would be better spend some money on curing disease and providing clean water. Population control is needed to balance the worlds renewal resources with the worlds needs.

QuoteThe oil cartels just buy up these ideas that could be detrimental to them economically and as a result these ideas never resurface to see day light again.

Wishful thinking but no true. The oil companies have Bush in their back pocket to make all the money they can use.

Even if the world did not use a drop of oil for fuel there is enough demand for plastic and other things that come from oil to keep them in big profits.

Posted on: October 17, 2007, 04:43:28 PM
QuoteI truly believe that he's the greatest Organic Architect

It would be nice for everyone to live an agrarian life in an organic nature, but with 6.6 billion people on the planet that is impossible. Scaling back the population is going to be tuff. Transition building is going to be needed. There is no reason that people cannot live in art also. I am afraid there are too many conflicting interests today to hatch a super Architect.
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cindybc

If it's not oil, why are the US troops still in Iraq getting shot at, blown up and beat up for nothing. There isn't anything left there still standing that is worth anything not a brick left standing in that country to make it worth while having the troops there, "except for the oil."

Cindy
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cindianna_jones

There is a way to handle our energy needs for at least the next couple of centuries.  See:

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NuclearFastReactorsSA1205.pdf

Much safer and it burns waste we can't seem to store anywhere.

Cindi
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cindybc

Wow a Neutron reactor burning nuclear waste sounds like a good plan. Burning 99% of nuclear wast leaving only 1% Ok.

Cindy
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lisagurl

QuoteIf it's not oil, why are the US troops still in Iraq getting shot at, blown up and beat up for nothing.

One can speculate there are many options. Religion? balance of power? the nuke factor? Father's revenge? Bully? Iran? Hire defense contractors? Syria, etc? Remember the Bush family has long time ties to the Royal family in Arabia.
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BCL

Quote from: Cindi Jones on October 17, 2007, 05:44:09 PM
There is a way to handle our energy needs for at least the next couple of centuries.  See:

http://www.nationalcenter.org/NuclearFastReactorsSA1205.pdf

Much safer and it burns waste we can't seem to store anywhere.

Cindi

I totally agree with Nuclear Energy as a viable alternative to oil or coal fired gas power stations.

My only concern is that each country should treat its own spent Nuclear waste, rather than shipping it half way round the world, to become someone elses waste.

As a global solution it does need the countries of the World to come together to agree that Nuclear technology will only be used for peaceful purposes, something I think may never happen.

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cindybc

There may be another way to dispose new clear waste, Why not dispose of it in a live volcano?

Cindy
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Teri Anne

The Discovery channel documentary on ice ages on earth discussed a number of causes...  It mentioned that the last ice age ENDED because of something that happened in Panama.  Apparently, a LONG time ago, water flowed freely from the Atlantic to the Pacific through what we now call Panama.  VOLCANOES in Panama sealed that flow and, when water couldn't flow freely, the water in the Caribbean and Atlantic warmed up and ENDED that ice age.  Amazing, huh?

The documentary described another fascinating thing that will happen in the future:  The continents, like South America and Africa, are going to drift TOGETHER millions or billions of years from now, again creating a super-continent.  Eventually, earth will lose its oceans, like Mars did, and will become an arrid planet.

As to a "super-architect" never again happening, I say "never say never."  Just as there was a Mozart, Beethoven, Aristotle, Copernicus, Galileo, Einstein, Hawking, van Gogh, Monet, Renoir, Louis Sullivan, Louis Comfort Tiffany, and Mies van der Rohe, every so often, genius happens.  I admit it's rare but I do think it's possible, no matter the odds.  Someone here posed the opinion that it might not happen because there are "too many conflicting interests today to hatch a super Architect."  In the above list of great ones, most if not all bucked convention.  Galileo risked excommunication from the church to stand up for what he thought.  A smart AND brave guy!

Regarding Wright, there's a story I love regarding FLLW's most famous house, Fallingwater:  When client Kaufmann called Mr. Wright to see if drawings were ready, Wright said to "come on down" to Wright's studio to see them.  As he hung up the phone, Wright's apprentices were in shock.  They knew that not one drawing had been started.  Wright simply sat down and drew the famous perspective (house over a waterfall) and the elevations WITHOUT USING THE ERASOR -- Wright had it completely thought out in his head before putting anything to paper.  Historians have noted that it takes true genius to do that.  Mozart also apparently had the ability to write a score to paper without any corrections.

Regarding nuclear waste:  A few years ago, I saw a horrific documentary on "60 Minutes" regarding the Hanford Nuclear Reservation (aka nuclear dump) in Oregon -- it's right above the beginning part of the Columbia River.  There was great concern that the huge containers holding radioactive waste are leaking and may end up KILLING the Columbia River.  This is a website on this problem:

http://www.hanfordwatch.org/

That website states:  "The Hanford Nuclear Reservation is the largest nuclear waste dump in the Western Hemisphere and a major Northwest environmental issue. It is a serious long-term threat to the Columbia River, which Oregon depends on for power generation, farm irrigation, fishing, transport and recreation.  Some 53 million gallons of high-level waste stored in 177 underground storage tanks. Sixty-seven of those 177 tanks are suspected to have leaked that waste into the soil."

Anyone who has seen the Columbia River can appreciate how wide and beautiful it is.

Now.


Teri Anne
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