Progesterone - Necessary for Breast/Nipple development?

[Orchid]

I have, in the short time taking it, noticed constant pain around my nipple area (which I'm totally fine with, by the way!), so I'm sure there will be breast growth. However, the effect that it is having on my mood is really hard to tolerate. It doesn't make me feel productive, just lousy and useless. This really could all be because I just started taking it, and my body needs time to acclimate to it - I know that this is different for everyone, some reporting really great, immediate effects on their mood, so I don't know. I feel like my mood is declining as each day passes.

I'd like to develop around my breast and nipple, but I did have similar pain and growth without progesterone added. I feel like my skin is softer but that might be due to estradiol. One of the AMAZING things is my libido. Holy moly! I remember how that was before HRT, but WOWZA! That's another reason why I'm considering staying on progesterone. If there is an alternative that can help with my sex drive then I'm all for it, but I don't hear anything else other than testosterone and progesterone helping with that.

Can I get the same effects without progesterone added? Just injections? From your experience, or from what you've heard, is it absolutely necessary to be on progesterone for feminine development, or can you achieve similar results with your standard HRT regimen?

By the way, I take Doctor-Prescribed Prometrium every night, before bed. My doctor actually advised me that if I have any adverse effects to it, I can consider stopping it. Let me know what you think, if you experienced something similar/different, or have some sage advice, honestly anything is appreciated.

[AshleyE]

Here's my situation where I asked almost the same questions. Might find some benefit. I am on Spiro also and I do not take prometrium.

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=206787.0

With Love
Ashley.

[HughE]

Aside from assisting the maturation of milk ducts and giving the breasts a fuller appearance, other benefits of progesterone are that it tends to have a mood-lifting effect, and it's useful for controlling the symptoms of estrogen excess (such as fluid retention). It also has an antiandrogenic effect, because it slows down the rate of testosterone to DHT conversion by tying up the enzyme 5-alpha reductase (DHT is several times more potent as an androgen than testosterone itself, and is the main hormone driving things like body hair growth and male pattern baldness).

[Lady_Oracle]

Yes

[KayXo]

Aside from assisting the maturation of milk ducts

* Volume 18a of Elsevier's New Comprehensive
Biochemistry, Titled 'Hormones and Their Actions, Part I', editors BA
Cooke, RJB King and HJ van der Molen.  Published 1988.  ISBN

"Progesterone also acts synergistically with estrogen in the normal
development of the breast.  Estrogen stimulates cell mitosis and growth
of the ductal system, while lobular development and differentiation is
dependent on progesterone."

* J Mammary Gland Biol Neoplasia 1999

"Progesterone was identified as a mammogenic hormone several years ago
but until now its role has been obscure. Recently the role of
progesterone signaling in mammary development is becoming more clear."

"The most significant observations to emerge from these studies are

(1) progesterone receptors are essential for lobuloalveolar [but
not ductal] morphogenesis."

* Ann Endocrinol (Paris) 1986;47(3):179-87

"adequate cell differentiation can be obtained with the successive
and synergistic action of estradiol (E2) and progesterone (P),
essentially because the progesterone receptor (PR) synthesis
implicates the previous action of E2 via its E2 receptor (ER). In
normal breast, E2 stimulates the growth of the ductal system whereas
the development of acini depends on P secretion."

* De Groot LJ, Beck-Peccoz P, Chrousos G, et al., editors.
South Dartmouth (MA): MDText.com, Inc.; 2000-.
Gynecomastia: Etiology, Diagnosis, and Treatment
Ronald S. Swerdloff, M.D.

"Estrogen and progesterone act in an integrative fashion to stimulate
normal adult female breast development. Estrogen, acting through its
ER a receptor, promotes duct growth, while progesterone, also acting
through its receptor (PR), supports alveolar development (15)."

* Steroids. 2004 Mar;69(3):145-59

"(...) The importance of the sex steroid hormones 17beta-estradiol
and progesterone for normal development of the mammary gland was
recognized several decades ago and has been unequivocally confirmed
since."

"(...) the hormones required for duct growth are estrogen,
somatotropin (STH), and adrenal corticoid. If P and prolactin (PRL)
are added to this combination, lobulo-alveolar growth is stimulated
[2]."

"(...)The biological responses of the mammary gland to P have
been intensively studied by many research groups [19,20]."

"(...) Data obtained with ER-KO and PR-KO models confirm
that E mediated signalling via ER is essential for ductal
morphogenesis, while P signalling via PR is critical for
lobulo-alveolar development. P is required for the transition
from ductal to lobulo-alveolar morphology. However,
it should be noticed that under normal physiological conditions,
E2 indirectly stimulates lobulo-alveolar architecture
formation too because it can also induce mammary PR expression via ER
[22]."

* Gynecology Obstetrics Department, Sénologie/Mastology – Pr Claude Colin
Hormone Dependence of the mammary tissue

"(...)Physiological thelarche only begins with the progressive
secretion of estrogens long before the first periods (menarche, at an
average of 13) and thus before any substantial progesterone
secretion. We then observe lengthening and ramification of the milk
ducts, as well as an increase in supporting connective tissue under
the influence of increased estrogen.

Lobulo-alveolar mammary development takes place after menarche, to
the benefit of ovulatory cycles accompanied by progesterone
secretion."

* Breast Carcinogenesis—Can the Examination of Ductal Fluid Enhance Our
Understanding?  January 2005, Volume 32, Number 1

"Estrogen is responsible for the elongation of breast ducts and
thickening of the epithelium that occurs in puberty (Rosen, 2001).
Differentiation of the lobuloalveolar units occurs during puberty,
with insulin, progesterone, and growth hormone contributing to the
process (McCarty & Tucker, 1992; Rosen). These changes continue
through menstrual cycles, pregnancy, lactation, and menopause."

* Climacteric. 2013 Aug;16 Suppl 1:69-78.

"Once a pregnancy occurs, progesterone
is necessary for the full differentiation of breast tissue that
occurs in preparation for lactation. In the mammary gland,
progesterone acts synergistically with estrogen to transform
the terminal end buds into differentiated lobules necessary for
milk secretion 4 . »

* Breast Cancer Research and Treatment
October 1986, Volume 8, Issue 3, pp 179-188

"In normal breast, estrogen stimulates growth of the ductal system, while lobular development depends on progesterone. Thus, estrogen and progesterone, when secreted in an adequate balance, permit the complete and proper development of the mammary gland. »

It also has an antiandrogenic effect, because it slows down the rate of testosterone to DHT conversion by tying up the enzyme 5-alpha reductase

The only study to have shown this with progesterone to any significant degree was using very high levels (supraphysiological) of progesterone in-vitro, if I recall correctly. So, at therapeutic doses, I doubt it will have any significant effect or at the very least, we cannot say anything with certainty.

[ChloëAri]

During my three weeks of progesterone, my bust has gone from 36.5" (32D/DD) to 38.5-39" (32DDD or 32F), however with weight gain my underbust has gone from 29" to 31". I have gained a fair bit of weight but considering my bra cup gains I totally recommend it. It also puts me right to sleep and acts as a sleeping pill it seems

[Lady_Oracle]

As someone thats been on it for four years, I'd say make sure to eat when you take it, absorbs better. Sublingual works but it takes forever and the drowsiness factor doubles. I do find I can feel it more, there's more of a euphoric effect if you do it that way. You'll also hit higher levels but that can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you react to those levels.

If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer.

[KayXo]

Sublingual works but it takes forever and the drowsiness factor doubles. I do find I can feel it more, there's more of a euphoric effect if you do it that way.

I thought sublingual would have less of a sedative/drowsiness effect as it bypasses the liver where much of the progesterone is converted to allopregnanolone. The euphoric effect should also, theoretically speaking, be shorter in duration. Oh well...

[Lady_Oracle]

 Thats thing the drowsiness does feel more intense but def doesn't last as long, so that is technically right 

[ChloëAri]

As someone thats been on it for four years, I'd say make sure to eat when you take it, absorbs better. Sublingual works but it takes forever and the drowsiness factor doubles. I do find I can feel it more, there's more of a euphoric effect if you do it that way. You'll also hit higher levels but that can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on how you react to those levels.

If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer.

Both my doctor and pharmacist told me explicitly not to take it with food and to wait 1 hour before eating or 2 after eating as food throws off absorption completely. Maybe it depends on the formulation? I take Prometrium.

[RobynD]

I started prometrium today and there was no warning about eating it with food.

[Lady_Oracle]

Both my doctor and pharmacist told me explicitly not to take it with food and to wait 1 hour before eating or 2 after eating as food throws off absorption completely. Maybe it depends on the formulation? I take Prometrium.

Idk where they got that from, my doc never mentioned that and yep I also take prometrium. There seems to be a lot of misinformation about P.

[KayXo]

Both my doctor and pharmacist told me explicitly not to take it with food and to wait 1 hour before eating or 2 after eating as food throws off absorption completely. Maybe it depends on the formulation? I take Prometrium.

No, it doesn't depend on the formulation. They advised to take it without food to minimize drowsiness because when you take it with food, absorption of progesterone is not only enhanced but also conversion to its metabolite allopregnanolone (due to more P) which is the one that makes you feel "loopy" or "high". I enjoy that effect very much, makes me feel good and I get more progesterone that way. My doctor advises me to do as I wish.

Fertil Steril. 1993 Jul;60(1):26-33.

"To examine the effects of food ingestion and administered dose on the absorption of oral micronized P (Utrogestan; Besins-Iscovesco, Paris, France)"

"Absorption of micronized P was enhanced twofold in the presence of food."

In the monograph of Prometrium, it is stated

"Transient and occasional somnolence or dizziness may occur in some patients 1–4 hours after ingestion of PROMETRIUM®, particularly if administered with food."

"Concomitant food ingestion increased the AUC and Cmax values of PROMETRIUM® Capsules, with no effect on Tmax relative to a fasting state when administered to postmenopausal women"

[Yukari-sensei]

I've had it for a little more than a week and so I don't have enough data to draw any conclusions. I had growth and it's commiserate pains before adding it to the mix and that has not changed. I do feel a general sense of pleasantness (but it could just be because it's spring ) but nothing radical.

Thank you everyone for the information on food. I was advised by the pharmacist to take it with food but I have been wavering due to a couple of days of morning-sickness-like waves of nausea. I'm going to be vigilant in my observations on how food interacts with this medication.

[KayXo]

I have been wavering due to a couple of days of morning-sickness-like waves of nausea. I'm going to be vigilant in my observations on how food interacts with this medication.

Due to the action of allopregnanolone, a byproduct of progesterone, higher in concentration when taken with food, intestinal transit is slowed down and can cause nausea. I, thankfully, never had this despite very high doses of oral progesterone. I think estrogen has the opposite effect on intestinal transit so perhaps a good balance between both helps to prevent this. I take VERY high doses of estrogen.

[RobynD]

I've been taking it a few days now. So far i have noticed an increase in breast tingling and itchiness. I had this along with the tenderness from estradiol only, but it seems like more now.