There is no solution to this.....or maybe there is!

[Elhedril]

Hi Jayne,
I've been reading your posts in this thread and I thought I'd get on here to see if it may help to hear from someone who's wife also went through exactly what you're describing.

I'm not trans, I'm a cis woman, but my wife is, and at the beginning of our transition, she sounded very much like you, in that she didn't want it to affect me negatively or for me to leave her, or for my family to hate me, etc. In fact, some of your earlier posts from this thread sound like she could have written them 6 years ago when we first discovered she was trans. Like you, she saw herself as a freak and thought she shouldn't have ever existed.
I'm here to let you know that yes, it will impact her life, but it doesn't mean you can't get through it as a couple, especially if she's willing to make an effort, and it sounds to me like she is. I never expected for my husband to become my wife, but when she first told me, I did my best to be supportive and help her as much as I could. She didn't even start HRT for a whole year after we first talked about it, she was too scared also. You can decide that on your own time. I don't even think she actually admitted to being trans until much later either. It actually started with clothing, and over time, we discovered who "she" was. What we did, was take baby steps in exploring this new side of her, and through each chapter, we did things together and talked a lot, about how she felt, and how I felt. This change is for both of you, and you are both entitled to speak honestly to each other about your feelings. To be honest, there were days when I didn't want to hear the word "trans" or "dysphoria" or "pass" but I didn't make her feel bad about it (well, sometimes I would, accidentally, and she would tell me), or tell her not to talk to me about it; I just talked to my own therapist or wrote in my journal and processed it in my own way. However, I can say that denying yourself the chance to explore your own identity will not help your relationship, you will only isolate yourself, and your wife too.

You mentioned wanting to be diagnosed by a professional, for someone to definitively tell you "yes, you're trans", but like your therapist said, it's something you have to come to on your own. After all, it's your gender identity, only you can say who you are, no one can tell you that. And if you don't know right now, it's ok. Talk to your wife about how you're feeling, and take the time to discover yourself. Nothing has to change overnight, it's a process. I know it can feel like life is not worth living when the pressure of having to make this big decision feels like the weight of the world. But, trust me, if your wife flew halfway around the world to be with you, she really loves you and surely does want you around. And look, even if she has a hard time and isn't as accepting as you'd like her to be, it doesn't mean you should try to bury it or make it go away, like others have said, you only have one life and you don't want to get to end of it have regrets.

Life is short, and it's not worth torturing yourself with what ifs forever.

When we finally decided to go on HRT, I was pregnant with our first child. We were broke and couldn't afford to bank any of her sperm. So, we said, "I guess we'll just have the one kid, and that's fine". We had no idea that our daughter would be born with a genetic disease and would die at 27 months old, after suffering her whole life in and out of intensive care. Do I ever think back, and say "man, what if we had banked the sperm?" "what if we could go back, then we would be able to have another child" Yes, I have thought of that. But we didn't and I'm not going to torture myself over it. All I can do now is appreciate the time I had with my daughter, remember those short precious moments with her and look forward. There are plenty of children who are abandoned by their parents every day, and I would be happy to adopt one eventually. It doesn't make it hurt less, but I try to look for the positive in that experience, and now I'm an advocate for the disease that claimed her life, something I could never do if she was never sick.

Something that has helped me immensely, for both the loss of my child and dealing with the transition, has been to practice meditation. I know it probably sounds hippy-ish, but it has really helped me accept who I am, as well as everything that has happened in my life. It's so easy to give into those dark thoughts and think that I don't deserve to be alive, but when you turn your attention inward, and focus on your breathing and you practice quieting your mind, it really can make a world of difference. I don't know if you've researched alternative medicine (meditation/yoga), but if you're suffering from anxiety and depression (both of which I have), it can help calm your mind. Are there any resources near you, where you could try a meditation class? If not, there are lots of resources online too.

I've written a wall of text, I'm sorry :/

I don't know you, but reading everything you posted, it really reminded me of my wife and her struggles, so I just wanted to say that it does get better. If you and your wife can commit to open communication and love each other no matter what, I think you will eventually find peace. Or at least I hope you do.

Hugs
Elhedril


PS: you're not alone

[Gendermutt]

Hi Jayne. I remember feeling about myself like you are describing. Like you at the time, I thought there was only regular guy, or complete transition. OMG, I am trans. And....?  There are a great many cross dressers who never transition. They still have their jobs, their wives.... and some who transition still have their wives. Being transgender doesn't have to mean your entire life as you knew it suddenly disappears. It may alter some. Honestly, for me what has probably made the biggest difference of all is simply not fighting myself. It certainly didn't happen over night. I spent 30 years at war with myself. Self acceptance for me is still an ongoing project, and it may always be that. I can tell you though that my self acceptance is the most important thing for me, more than however I dress, or how feminine or masculine I am. 

[Tiamat]

Unfortunately the only person who can know that, is you. I wish I could tell, as I wish someone could have told me when I was younger. The problem with identity is that it's a very personal thing. It's about what you see yourself as. I guess you just... know? It's this feeling that something in you is a lie. It's wrong, a facade. When I started to confront my issues and finally came out of the closet, it felt like I finally removed a mask.

I'm glad that you aren't running away from this. It's a big decision.

[zirconia]

Jayne01,

The uncertainty must feel devastating, and a definite diagnosis would be a huge relief.

I hesitate to state this will also be true where you live, but in my area the professional most likely to give a fast diagnosis might be a psychiatrist. At least in my vicinity therapists and counselors are expressly trained to not diagnose and thereby categorize clients, but to rather help the clients themselves assess and understand where they stand and thereby find a path forward.

In this sense a psychiatrist in a hospital setting may be closer to a mechanic in a repair shop. A medical establishment is geared to physically fix what the patient can't. The first step is to pinpoint the problem in order to select and initiate an appropriate procedure.

That said, for an accurate analysis even a psychiatrist will most likely require the patient to first claim probable sexual dysphoria. The consequences are significant enough that I doubt one would make the diagnosis, let alone e.g. suggest hormone replacement therapy without this input. On the other hand, familiar, explicit and obvious symptoms allow a psychiatrist to move relatively quickly.

The advantage of a skillful, non-judgmental counselor is that one can make clients feel enough at ease to admit, bring out to the open and accept things they may have been hiding and repressing. This facilitates medical diagnosis when the client then may go to a medical establishment to ask for further (physical) therapy.

[jayne01]

Thank you all once again for your replies. I don't always reply because I often don't know what to say, but I do read all the replies, usually more than once. It all helps, so thank you.

Elhedril, thank you for your very detailed response. It was very helpful. I like to hear from partners of trans people because it helps me better understand what my wife has to go through due to my condition. If I understand better, then I hopefully can minimise her pain. I am very sorry to hear about your daughter. We don't have children, so I can only imagine how tough that must be on you.

[SadieBlake]

I cannot understand why nobody can come up with a diagnosis and tell me whether or not I am trans. A therapist can tell me I have depression and anxiety by observing me and seeing my symptoms. Why can't they diagnose whether or not I am trans the same way they diagnose depression and anxiety? It doesn't make any sense to me. What makes being trans any different to being depressed or anxious? They are all medical conditions of the brain. I don't understand why being trans is left up to the individual.

I fix planes for a living. If a pilot has an issue with the plane, they will give me a list of symptoms and I possibly run some additional tests and come up with a diagnosis and fix the problem. The pilot doesn't come up with the diagnosis, they just report the symptoms. Similarly, if I am feeling unwell, I go to the doctor and tell them my symptoms. They then come up with a diagnosis, possibly after running some tests, and then proceed to fix me.

So why is it that I go see a therapist, give them all my symptoms (dysphoria, etc), they ask me a bunch of questions, listen to me tell them all my woes and yet they still won't come up with a diagnosis. I am still expected to know for certain what ails me.

The pilot operates the plane and is an expert at doing that. But I am the expert at knowing how the plane is put together and how it all works. I am the one that operates my body and I know how to do that. But the medical professionals are the ones that know how the body is all put together and how it all works. Just like the pilot, I have a very limited knowledge of how the machine I operate functions, but I am no expert. So why do all the experts refuse to tell me what is wrong with this machine that is me?

Unfortunately I have seen this before on the site. People will come to the site, explore and then leave the site for months to years until they finally reach the point that the discomfort can no longer be tolerated. They then return and regret the time they wasted.

Dena different site but yes that would be me. I realized a bit north of 40 - so 20 years ago - that I am trans and after 4 years of working on it decided not to pursue transitioning, to continue living my private life as femme as I felt and presenting male professionally etc. I don't regret that time or consider it wasted, during that period I took on two new professions and entered an entirely new branch of technology and research.

OP, what I knew then and still do is if I could see an endpoint where I would pass as female and be reasonably pretty I'd have started the process in a heartbeat. It didn't help that as part of learning to pass as male I'd spent a lifetime pursuing hyper-masculine activities -- a fairly common trait for trans women of my era.

My decision hasn't changed completely, I'm on HRT very much as an experiment with the possibility of moving on to surgical transition. I have no intention of passing as female on a daily basis as my other desires haven't changed and so far I'm 100% happily engaged in working 60+ hours per week and have no desire to take the time that would be involved in passing full time.

At present I'm moving toward a very gradual 'external' transition, allowing myself to gradually dress more femininely, adopting a hairstyle that will soften my features etc. Even though I now have insurance that will cover the entire cost of transition, E.g. electrolysis ffs etc I just don't value those changes enough to devote the time.

As for diagnosis, I would be your polar opposite, I've been self-diagnosing for many decades, sometimes to the annoyance of my doctors (I've rarely been wrong).

To be sure and clear, my decisions are compromise and not always ones I'm happy with. To reiterate, if I were someone who easily passed for female I'd have moved through the process to GRS long since, otoh I recognize that that's a bit shallow and it's probably best that that's not really an option. I also know full well that the path isn't easy for those who pass more easily as female.

My depression had plenty of other roots than dysphoria and those things also needed work and will always need attention. That said I seem to be among those better served by HRT than by antidepressants.

The things you are facing aren't well addressed by logic or analysis and I encourage you to get better at sitting with discomforts, accepting them and only then working on solutions. Every day I go about my life knowing I'm a survivor of abuse, that I don't fit very well in my body and that I still depend on it and value the things it does give me.

If I look at all these things at once they are a very large elephant indeed (perhaps Gordian knot would be the better analogy) and that the solutions to being happier happen a bite at a time. In my therapy we try to address one thing at a time and trust that the progress happens. What I have that you don't as yet is 20 years of progress that has taught me to trust my own process.

[Gendermutt]

Jayne, your condition is called human. That is your diagnosis, you are suffering from human being syndrome. Being transgender has many challenges. It does not have to be a suffering life though. Maybe one day you will come to a realization you are TS, but not everyone who is transgender is, or goes through a full transition. Many of us, myself included sit somewhere on the fence, maybe leaning in the direction of female, or just occasionally hop over for a little while then hop back.

My wife is aware of it. I came out to her in late 2012. Hasn't always been fun or easy, and we have made our arrangements. I do not dress in her presence, but she gives me lots of time to dress. I am by nature a feminine person. I am just myself in her presence. To her I am her husband, and I am fine with that. Sometimes she does struggle with the idea of a transgender husband. There are times she has struggled with my femininity.  There are times when she has even enjoyed some of it, just not the physical presentation.

Hopefully in time you will not see yourself with some horrible dreadful condition that is only suffering and pain.

[jayne01]

I keep reading and being told that being transgender is a medical condition and I believe that. Well, I have been believing that. I am now beginning to doubt that because I doubt myself.

I cannot find any medical professional that can tell me whether or not I am trans. So how do you know that being trans is medical and biological in the first place if there is no way test for it? If I am the only one who knows if I am trans because that is was my brain tells me, doesn't that make it a state of mind? I don't want to upset anyone, I am just really confused about all this. I cannot make any sense of it.

If I have a medical condition, why can't a doctor test for this condition and then give me options on available treatments? None of this makes any sense.

[tsroxy]

Does it really matter what it is? The point is you know what you want and you're currently unhappy about it. If you're somehow wired to be a female in a male body with no influences that could've caused this, then I have no doubt this is a medical thing.

[jayne01]

Does it really matter what it is? The point is you know what you want and you're currently unhappy about it. If you're somehow wired to be a female in a male body with no influences that could've caused this, then I have no doubt this is a medical thing.

It shouldn't matter what it is. But how can I takes steps to fix something if I don't know what I am trying to fix? By "fix" I mean taking whatever steps necessary to remove or reduce the symptoms causing distress.

When I fix planes, if there is a problem with the entertainment system, I don't go and replace an engine. I first find out what the problem is, then I proceed with the correct remedy for the problem at hand. I can't commencing to fix something before knowing what it is that I am trying to fix. That kind of logic may not make sense to many people, but that is how my brain works, apparently to my own detriment.

[Jacqueline]

I may be mistaken but I believe the idea that one can see the difference  between a male brain and female brain has not been conclusively proven. Most of the physical characteristics of human brains will not show much of difference. The theory of it being a medical condition is a result of something that happened in the womb. It is not something that can be seen or measured (yet).

This site accepts a number of "conditions" as under the trans umbrella. Cross Dressers, gender fluid, non binary, intersex.... The following is not meant to exclude others. It is simply one of the most comprehensive descriptions of official diagnosis of gender dysphoria(which is more of binary concept in this instance) used in the medical community . Diagnosis is based around this standard in the US:

By Dr Ananya Mandal, MD

Gender dysphoria is a condition where then person identifies himself or herself with the opposite of their original biological sex. This is not a mental disorder. However, some people may need therapy.

Diagnosis of gender dysphoria is thus important to rule out other concurrent or underlying mental disorders like anxiety, depression etc. (1)
A multidisciplinary team is required for diagnosis

Assessment of persons with gender dysphoria and diagnosis of the condition is a multidisciplinary action.

A detailed psychiatric history, psychosexual development and behavior history, neuropsychological testing and behavioral analysis may be needed.

The team may comprise of:

    Psychiatrists
    Psychologists
    Neurologists
    Endocrinologists (who specialize in hormonal functions)
    Urologists (who specialize in the urinary tract and its abnormalities)
    Behavioral and occupation therapists
    Counsellors etc.

Gender dysphoria must be separated from homosexuality. Not all persons with gender dysphoria are homosexual. (1, 2)
Two phase diagnosis

Diagnosis may be a challenge since results of psychological testing may not be conclusive.

The International Harry Benjamin Gender Dysphoria Association lays down guidelines for a two phase diagnosis. (1)

    Phase I – Diagnosis is based on the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders IV (Text Revision) or DSM – IV TR.
    Phase II – Here the patient is assessed if he or she can live in the desired sex role permanently. This involves family information and counselling and name change. Hormonal therapy, gender re-assignation surgery and psychotherapy is administered as needed.

Ruling out other diagnosis

Differential diagnosis or other diagnosis that need to be ruled out during assessment of a suspected person with gender dysphoria include (1):–

    Nonconformity to stereotypical sex role behaviors
    Transvestic fetishism – The person may have a sexual fetish with cross dressing
    Concurrent congenital intersex condition – The person may have ambiguous genitalia
    Schizophrenia

Criteria for gender dysphoria diagnosis according to DSM V guidelines

The criteria for diagnosis according to the latest DSM V proposed guidelines is broken down into in children and in adolescents and adults. (3, 4):
DSM V diagnosis in children

In children –

  1  A definite difference between experienced/expressed gender and the one assigned at birth of at least 6 months duration. At least six of the following must be present:
       1 Persistent and strong desire to be of the other sex or insistence that they belong to the other sex
       2 In males a strong preference for cross-dressing and in female children a strong preference for wearing typical masculine clothing and dislike or refusal to wear typical feminine clothing
        3 Fantasising about playing opposite gender roles in make-belief play or activities
       4 Preference for toys, games, or activities typical of the opposite sex.
     5   Rejection of toys, games and activities conforming to one's own sex. In boys avoidance of rough-and-tumble play and in girls rejection of typically feminine toys and activities
     6   Preference for playmates of the other sex
     7   Dislike for sexual anatomy. Boys may hate their penis and testes and girls dislike urinating sitting.
       8 Desire to acquire the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the opposite sex.
  2  The gender dysphoria leads to clinically significant distress and/or social, occupational and other functioning impairment. There may be an increased risk of suffering distress or disability.

    The subtypes may be ones with or without defects or defects in sexual development.

DSM V diagnosis in adults and adolescents

In adults and adolescents –

   1 A definite mismatch between the assigned gender and experienced/expressed gender for at least 6 months duration as characterized by at least two or more of the following features –
      1  Mismatch between experienced or expressed gender and gender manifested by primary and/or secondary sex characteristics at puberty
      2  Persistent desire to rid oneself of the primary or secondary sexual characteristics of the biological sex at puberty.
      3 Strong desire to possess the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender
      4  Desire to belong to the other gender
      5  Desire to be treated as the other gender
      6  Strong feeling or conviction that he or she is reacting or feeling in accordance with the identified gender.
    2 The gender dysphoria leads to clinically significant distress and/or social, occupational and other functioning impairment. There may be an increased risk of suffering distress or disability.

    The subtypes may be ones with or without defects or defects in sexual development.

Edited by April Cashin-Garbutt, BA Hons (Cantab)

So, while not measurable physical markers there is a particular criteria. However, most of it is based on your personal experiences, feelings and preferences.

Interestingly enough, even vehicles with stated expected miles per gallon(that are supposed to be able to prove this information) vary from vehicle to vehicle.

With warmth,

Joanna

[tsroxy]

But you're not an airplane, our atonomy and especially our brain is way more complicate than that.
You're looking for someone to confirm what you already know, someone to pull the trigger for you.
The only one that knows you, is you. You need to fix yourself, no one is going to tell you you need to
transition. They can only help you understand your feelings so you can proper diagnose and do what's necessary
to be happy with yourself, it's never going to be easy.

[jayne01]

Hi Joanna,

Thanks for the link. The way I read it, it is all guidelines for an official diagnosis by a professional. That is not my experience. Everybody, both on this forum and all the psychologists I see tell me that I need to diagnose myself. I am not a trained mental health professional. I don't have the qualifications to make any kind of diagnosis. I don't expect a flight attendant to be able to diagnose a mechanical problem with an aircraft. They can identify symptoms, and possibly even make a reasonably accurate guess at diagnosing a problem, but it is not their area of expertise. Mental health is not my area of expertise. I can identify a whole bunch of symptoms, and maybe even make a good guess at what is up with me, but I am no expert.

[tsroxy]

Even if there would be someone qualified to say "oh yup, you definitely need to transition", they wouldn't make that call.
It's a life changing procedure.. it's always going to be in your hands hun. You need to find a way to deal with this, always think
about yourself though, you deserve to be happy like anyone else.

[Jacqueline]

You are correct. Even if you were a medical professional you should still have an objective perspective from another.

I have to admit that I don't remember precisely where you are. Criteria changes from state to state and country to country.

Many places, including the state I am in, requires a qualified mental health professional to evaluate one before hormones or surgery. While most will admit that the patient may have more information to diagnose themselves(living in that brain and body-we know how we feel about that body and preferences), it still takes a letter from a professional. It generally says the patient is in their care for X amount of time and the patient matches the minimum criteria for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

No need for you to have the expertise. You just need to tell them that "the ride is funny and it makes this sound..." 

I know it's easy to say don't over think it, then you are up all night thinking that (or something else) but you know what, even that is a symptom...  and I'm up too.

Warmly,

Joanna

[jayne01]

I'm not asking anybody to tell me whether or not to transition. I just need to know if I am transgender or not. Then I can make an informed decision about what to do.

Joanna, I am in Sydney, Australia. I thought by me continually telling my therapist what my symptoms are (ie. "The ride is funny and makes this sound...") then they could say, yes based on everything you have told me and what I have observed, you are trans, or no, u don't think you are trans, I think you have xyz and here are the various options available to you to treat xyz, or abc or trans or whatever. I think I have missed something along the way in my understanding.

[dr.tina]

Hey I many ppl are sharinh many things. I Donno if I can help you or no, but I'll tell what happened to me

I was not sure about me and was not ready to accept who I'm, when I had dysphoria episodes I made fake promises to me, then I got indulged in college and all and didn't think too much until next episode, but last year episodes were very often and hindered my studies, so I decided to act..I know one thing I'm not sure about my body I just hate it,I wanted to be fair and girl (which I'm not sure,is attainable for me), and didn't want to end up being nothing, but it's my male characters I'm not happy with.
So I wud be some where in gender spectrum other then male.
That gave me confidence and I started to work on my self,I brought clothes to wear when I'm free,and that made me feel better than before. Everyone doubts themselves, but don't think under pressure, just think what wud you do if no1 judged you or if everyone likes you no matter what, and that helped me.
I went to therapist and I got t-blockers last week, I'm kinda anxious, but I like it.

And wud you keep on asking this question again and again till you feel bad that you didn't act earlier?? Just give time to yourself do small things (I tried dresses, make up).. You will find what makes you feel better

Sent from my Moto G using Tapatalk

[Jacqueline]

Joanna, I am in Sydney, Australia. I thought by me continually telling my therapist what my symptoms are (ie. "The ride is funny and makes this sound...") then they could say, yes based on everything you have told me and what I have observed, you are trans, or no, u don't think you are trans, I think you have xyz and here are the various options available to you to treat xyz, or abc or trans or whatever. I think I have missed something along the way in my understanding.

Is this a gender therapist or more general? I am guessing you have come out and asked them and then they turn it around to what do you think, diagnose yourself? Have you  brought up to them the arguments you are using here(how should you as a person who is not trained in mental health... what if your thoughts/feelings are false...

Maybe you need to ask them point blank what their professional opinion is and why?

I think we have given you lots of different ways of approaching this. It is not surprising if you are worried and scared. It is daunting to say the least. I hope some of the suggestions and arguments come in to play and help you. If you want to wait, that's okay but, I don't think you will find it goes away. I was not really sure what it was wrong with me for years. However, the symptoms have never left me alone for a year(would duck out of sight for a while sometimes).

Good luck. I have to go get some sleep.

Sincerely,

Joanna

[Deborah]

 Have you asked your therapist this question?  "Am I trans, or something else?"  Surely they must have an opinion one way or the other.


Sapere Aude

[The Saint]

Jayne,

I am pretty new to all of this, however I have been reading everything that has been posted. Please bare with me if I forgot anything. From what I understand, is you can't fully comprehend your emotions which is a problem in of itself coupled with need to be sure about what you "are." I am very new to the community here as being that I have shared a bit of my story (See Introductions) but on top of just recently dropping the T-bomb on my Girlfriend of 2 years I can understand how unnerving it can be. When I told her that I wanted to start looking to change she was kind of put off by it, but then I gave her a ultimatum. Not only did I give her one, it was the same one I had given myself.

Have you ever heard of Schrodinger's Cat? Schrodinger was a scientist of sorts, who wanted to reflect how to determine something without doing anything to actually determine it. Which didn't make much since to his peers, but he did his experiment anyways. For his experiment Schrodinger took his feline companion and placed it inside a wooden box and sealed it. No windows, no air holes, nor food or water. Just a cat in a box, and left it in his lab for a week without even giving it a second though. The next week he took the box and placed it on the table and asked his peers if the cat was alive or dead. Of course his peers laughed and claimed it was dead, but here is the kicker. As scientists they can only base judgement about the cat based on what they can only observe, the could only look at the box and were expected to give a highly educated guess about the cat being alive or dead.

Stumped with this, the cat being alive or dead was inconclusive based on what observe. Now we get to why I think this is relative to you, because you are the box. The cat inside is your mental gender if you will, With out knowing if the cat is alive (male) or dead (female) and have no choice but to ultimately open the box and really see what is inside of it. You could go about it a few ways like doing low doses of HRT or eating foods that help your body produce estrogen, to talking with your wife about what is going on with you, or lastly really self evaluating yourself. The only other option is to just leave the box alone and try not to think about it (Bury it) which will only make you want to open the box even more later on.

Just some food for thought.

-James