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There is no solution to this.....or maybe there is!

Started by jayne01, April 12, 2016, 11:22:37 PM

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jayne01

Quote from: Emileeeee on May 07, 2016, 09:37:49 PM
That's how I feel after achieving self acceptance because any "cure" would require removing such a core part of my being, that I wouldn't even be me anymore and that's not worth it.

I cannot agree with this. When I read comments like this, I get more and more convinced I am not trans. I understand where you are coming from and if you are trans that would make perfect sense. For me that does not make sense. I don't think any cure would remove any core part of me at all, it would just remove the confusion.

So many of you that know beyond doubt that you are trans describe your experience and it is totally opposite to what I'm experiencing. Wouldn't that make me the opposite of trans (cis)? This is completely messing with my head.
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jayne01

So many of you tell me to try going down a path and if it is not right turn back and try another path. I am beginning to think I already am on the wrong path. Why else would I be so confused and distressed and unable to relate to most of what you are saying? There must must be something else that is wrong with me that I don't yet know what it is.
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ryokohimura

Quote from: jayne01 on May 08, 2016, 01:25:48 AM
So many of you tell me to try going down a path and if it is not right turn back and try another path. I am beginning to think I already am on the wrong path. Why else would I be so confused and distressed and unable to relate to most of what you are saying? There must must be something else that is wrong with me that I don't yet know what it is.
How would you feel if a professional definitively said "you are trans, absolutely 100%"?

Forget everything else, how would someone telling you that make you feel?

**Note: not a therapist, just taking a step back.
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jayne01

Quote from: ryokohimura on May 08, 2016, 02:34:41 AM
How would you feel if a professional definitively said "you are trans, absolutely 100%"?

Forget everything else, how would someone telling you that make you feel?

**Note: not a therapist, just taking a step back.

That would be great news. Then I would know and I can then concentrate my attention what to do about it. So long as their assessment is genuine and they are just not saying it to shut me up.

It would also be great news if they told me I was not trans. At least I would know one way or the other.
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Megan.

OK, so what if the same therapist said they were 99.9% sure?
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jayne01

Still pretty good odds. Problem is they are not telling me anything. Not even 1% sure. Nothing!
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Rejennyrated

Quote from: jayne01 on May 08, 2016, 03:16:16 AM
That would be great news. Then I would know and I can then concentrate my attention what to do about it. So long as their assessment is genuine and they are just not saying it to shut me up.

It would also be great news if they told me I was not trans. At least I would know one way or the other.
Ok well I am NOT yet qualified so I cannot make that call definitively, however I am a fourth year medical student who has recently done a psychiatry rotation, in which I learned about a peculiar type of OCD, in which a person can become obsessed with something which is ABSOLUTELY ABHORRENT to them. Typically they become obsessed for example that they *might* be a child molestor, or murderer, or gay... when in actual fact they arent at all and the compulsion to think about this thing causes them huge distress. Studies have shown that these people are often actually the polar opposite of what they become obsessed over, and it is a combination of OCD and fear that leads them to their bizzare fixation.

The differential being that someone who *was* one of these things, would on some level, obtain pleaseure from considering them or acting them out, whereas for the people with this form of OCD the thoughts are abhorrent and horrific, and the acting out is almost unthinkable and utterly distressing.

As I said, I am not a psychiatrist yest, but What you are now describing does sound rather more like that sort of OCD than being trans and I would strongly recommend seeing someone who IS a fully qualified general psychiatrist to explore that possibility.

Unfortunately, identifying the problem is only the first step, and it would be lovely if there were simple and effective treatments for these issues. Sadly the truth is, whatever problem you have, will take time and hard work to overcome. However I do agree with you that asking the right questions about how you feel, so that you arrive at the correct diagnosis, is a good first step.
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Megan.

No one will tell you what to do, at least no one you should listen to. If you read the experiences of the people on this forum, you will see many different ideas and ways of expressing your feelings. Some might work for you, others won't. Experiment, and learn about yourself, it can be fun, this will bring acceptance and in time, some understanding. I still don't know how things will end up for me, but I can answer one single question - I can't stay as I am for the rest of my life. So logically, I need to try something else. For me, it's that simple.
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Rebecca

I think Rejennyrated could be spot on there. That does add up properly.

I'm nobody but your posts don't read as trans though will be first to admit my knowledge is very limited.

With no insult intended I would say you  definitely appear to be obsessed and compulsive about this issue despite not being able to tell us why you think/fear you are trans.
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jayne01

Quote from: Rejennyrated on May 08, 2016, 03:49:27 AM
Ok well I am NOT yet qualified so I cannot make that call definitively, however I am a fourth year medical student who has recently done a psychiatry rotation, in which I learned about a peculiar type of OCD, in which a person can become obsessed with something which is ABSOLUTELY ABHORRENT to them. Typically they become obsessed for example that they *might* be a child molestor, or murderer, or gay... when in actual fact they arent at all and the compulsion to think about this thing causes them huge distress. Studies have shown that these people are often actually the polar opposite of what they become obsessed over, and it is a combination of OCD and fear that leads them to their bizzare fixation.

The differential being that someone who *was* one of these things, would on some level, obtain pleaseure from considering them or acting them out, whereas for the people with this form of OCD the thoughts are abhorrent and horrific, and the acting out is almost unthinkable and utterly distressing.

As I said, I am not a psychiatrist yest, but What you are now describing does sound rather more like that sort of OCD than being trans and I would strongly recommend seeing someone who IS a fully qualified general psychiatrist to explore that possibility.

Unfortunately, identifying the problem is only the first step, and it would be lovely if there were simple and effective treatments for these issues. Sadly the truth is, whatever problem you have, will take time and hard work to overcome. However I do agree with you that asking the right questions about how you feel, so that you arrive at the correct diagnosis, is a good first step.

What you say is interesting and possibly true. I did ask my psychologist if there are any tests I could take for other possible conditions (autism, OCD, and some others I don't remember the name of). She didn't think that any of those applied to me. Maybe some very mild OCD but nothing to be concerned about.

Also, please understand that I do not think being trans is ABSOLUTELY ABHORRENT. Far from it. I accept everyone for who they are. In fact, I wish I did know some trans people in real life. I think that would open my world up a little bit, but mostly, due to the pressures society places on trans people, I think that somehow makes them nicer, more genuine human beings that are proud to be their true selves and not present a fake persona. Notice I did not include myself as trans. Not because I find it distasteful but because if I am not trans, I don't deserve to be included in that group of fine people.
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ryokohimura

I asked my question as I felt this topic is just going in circles.

I mean no disrespect, but if you are trans, what if you're just not ready to accept it? That's fine.

I remember what one general therapist told me. "I don't have the answers." I didn't like her all that much, but it made sense. I find that the general public tend to think that therapists have this magic wand that cures everything. I know my mom was furious when I told her that.

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Rejennyrated

Quote from: jayne01 on May 08, 2016, 04:23:55 AM
Also, please understand that I do not think being trans is ABSOLUTELY ABHORRENT.
Yeah don't misunderstand me - I DO NOT mean that they disapprove of others who are trans, or of the condition itself - rather they find the idea that THEY THEMSELF - might be trans to be absolutely abhorrent - in otherwords the OCD has them continually *checking* in case they *might* be - but the idea that it might be true terrifies and revolts them rather than giving them any pleasure.

My gut is that if you do not feel fullfilled on at least some level by the idea of being trans, however terrifying a challenge it may seem at the outset, then you probably arent.

I know when most people start on the road it seems like a long and hard climb, but at some level, they do feel a sense of excitement to be finally attempting the journey. Reading thorugh you posts, and the fact that 14 pages later you are still sounding more negative than positive, I cannot entirely convince myself that you do feel that excitement and this makes me suspect, at this stage, that your solution may lie on another path.

Once again I emphasise that I am not qualified - and this does not constitute any sort of formal opinion - It is only the vague impression of someone who has perhaps a little personal experience, and who may be wrong.
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autumn08

Quote from: Rejennyrated on May 08, 2016, 03:49:27 AM
Ok well I am NOT yet qualified so I cannot make that call definitively, however I am a fourth year medical student who has recently done a psychiatry rotation, in which I learned about a peculiar type of OCD, in which a person can become obsessed with something which is ABSOLUTELY ABHORRENT to them. Typically they become obsessed for example that they *might* be a child molestor, or murderer, or gay... when in actual fact they arent at all and the compulsion to think about this thing causes them huge distress. Studies have shown that these people are often actually the polar opposite of what they become obsessed over, and it is a combination of OCD and fear that leads them to their bizzare fixation.

The differential being that someone who *was* one of these things, would on some level, obtain pleaseure from considering them or acting them out, whereas for the people with this form of OCD the thoughts are abhorrent and horrific, and the acting out is almost unthinkable and utterly distressing.

As I said, I am not a psychiatrist yest, but What you are now describing does sound rather more like that sort of OCD than being trans and I would strongly recommend seeing someone who IS a fully qualified general psychiatrist to explore that possibility.

Unfortunately, identifying the problem is only the first step, and it would be lovely if there were simple and effective treatments for these issues. Sadly the truth is, whatever problem you have, will take time and hard work to overcome. However I do agree with you that asking the right questions about how you feel, so that you arrive at the correct diagnosis, is a good first step.

This seems like internalized-transphobia, not OCD, as what is distressing isn't the prospect of accepting (Jayne considers that prospect to be "great news"), but the obstruction to the acceptance (albeit, a very illogical one, so I can understand how you theorized that it might be OCD). Also, if OCD was the problem, anti-depressants should have caused some relief, and if her 4 therapists are as well respected as Jayne claims they are, her OCD would have been fairly obvious to at least one of them, after 8 months.

If the prospect of being female in itself was distressing, I would say that the desire to be female is what should be treated, but since it isn't, then I agree with standard approach, which is not to treat this as a problem.
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KyleEdric

I am almost positive I have what Rejennyrated is talking about. I haven't been officially diagnosed, but I'm sure it's that.

I mostly go through terrifying thoughts of screaming in public places and acting like a spoiled child in front of friends and family and being really cruel and/or annoying. But I never EVER do. Like Jenny said, we are just the opposite. It's really consuming to think about whenever I'm in a public setting. But I don't want to stop leaving the house. I just tell myself internally to get a grip, and hope that's enough to get me through.

But I KNOW that my transness is not part of my so-far-hypothetical OCD affliction. I DO get thoughts about wondering if it's all going to be worth it when I change sexes and go on hormones, the whole nine yards. I ALSO know that I will never ever ever be going back to living as a female. The first binder I bought has recently gone through so much wear that when I wore it the other day, I might as well had worn a regular old bra; it did NOTHING to hide my breasts under my shirt and I felt like I was going to cry (thankfully I have two more binders as spares so I was okay). Also there is a very personal reason I want to become male and I won't explain why here, but the point is, as much as I'm scared about the future and what is in store for trans Kyle, I would sooner die than go crawling back to my old gender.

Have you ever worn a full outfit of clothes of the opposite sex? That was essentially the deal breaker for me when I decided I was serious about the whole thing. Believe me, the waiting for therapy, hormones, etc DOES get to you. There are some trans folks who do question what they are doing at some point in their transition. But I think the question of, "Do I like doing this?" is the most important.
"I know your soul is not tainted, even though you've been told so."~Ghost 'Cirice'

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autumn08

Quote from: jayne01 on May 08, 2016, 12:38:24 AM
I cannot agree with this. When I read comments like this, I get more and more convinced I am not trans. I understand where you are coming from and if you are trans that would make perfect sense. For me that does not make sense. I don't think any cure would remove any core part of me at all, it would just remove the confusion.

So many of you that know beyond doubt that you are trans describe your experience and it is totally opposite to what I'm experiencing. Wouldn't that make me the opposite of trans (cis)? This is completely messing with my head.

Jayne, whenever you reply to your messages, your mind looks for something to disagree with and since your beliefs are filled with conflations and contradictions, you will always find something to disagree with, which you can use as evidence that you aren't transgender.

Again, there is only one logical solution and that is to placate your desires. Since you can't unravel how to do that, you should start by asking for low-dose HRT.
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Gendermutt

Ok, I am going to go ahead and make the diagnosis for you Jayne. You are gender variant. I am not going to diagnose you as transgender, because only you can do that, but you are HERE for a reason. I know denial, I have been through it all. 6 years ago, when my new girlfriend, now wife  would every once in a while notice I would do something in a fem like manner, if she would have asked then, "are you transgender" I would have said emphatically NO. I would have believed myself back then too. Just odd feminine quirks in an otherwise normal male is what I was.  eh, those little random thoughts of wishing to be a woman, repress, deny, repress, deny, repeat....

As I am human, I have sometimes had other emotional issues. None real severe. I have gotten depressed at times. I have had anxiety at times. I have had anger issues at times. I have suffered from alcoholism. I am on my 2nd go around on the wagon. Not all of these things are directly related to my gender issues. Although all but anxiety are a part of that. Anxiety attacks were directly related to my failing 1st marriage. My other emotional issues, which a lot of people suffer from are from all the various issues in my life, including being transgender.

Accepting my being transgender has not made any of them go away. But it has helped immensely with being able to deal with them. I am now back on the wagon, in part because of my acceptance to being Transgender. Or perhaps having success on staying on might be better phrased.

Nearly 7 years ago when I was 1st dating my now wife, I was going through all of the same repeating deny repress patterns I had always done. My little secret I would take to my grave. No one knew, and I mean no one. No one would ever know. I wouldn't go into a woman's section of a store. If we were shopping, she would browse the woman's section, I would browse the men's, or go to another store. I did not want to go in there. I was afraid I would like it. I was afraid everyone would see right through me and the trans radar alarms would start screeching like a car alarm. My denial made me think that if I stay away from it all, I won't like it,, or start wanting it more.

I, like you Jayne, and so many others, wanted to be normal. I am a born male and just want to be nothing more. I tried everything imaginable to make it go away. I figured if I tried hard enough, or in the right manner, deny it, ignore it, I could successfully purge all this insanity from my brain and be and want only to be male. Every time I failed, a deeper feeling of failure grew within me. Sometimes I would go weeks, maybe even a few months without the random feelings. And I thought I had it beat. Then it would appear again, a picture in a magazine, seeing a woman dressed or just looking a particular way, and it would happen. I wanted to look like that. I wanted to be her. And the cycle would repeat again.

One of the things that kept my on that cycle IS that I still felt an identity to being male. I still do today, which is reason numero uno that I am not on a path to transition. Being transgender, as it was explained to me, does not mean a total cross over to the opposite gender of your birth. It just means at some point, there is a cross over.

Genderfluid is what I best describe myself as and identify as. Some call it dual gender. I have learned that there are ways in which it can actually help me in life. It can be confusing, and frustrating as all hell at times. But I have learned to use my feminine powers for good. In some ways, and even my wife has acknowledged, it has made me a better husband.  8) I have a better understanding of her than most husband have of their wives. I am able to empathize in ways most husbands struggle to, or can't. My wife always admires how I can say the right things that make her feel better. Things, not necessarily feminine, but just ways most guys don't, or can't. It is because I too feel those things that would make me feel better. It is almost an unfair advantage hehehe. I get what many guys don't.

In the end, it is all about acceptance. You are gender variant. Trans, or not trans, it doesn't really matter. There are many CDers out there who do not identify at any time as women, and proclaim they are not trans. Works for me. There are those out there who are trans, identify as TS, but their life for their circumstances puts them on a path which they will still live their lives as their assigned gender. works for me. All you really need to do, is accept that internally, there is a part of you at least that crossed the gender divide. It isn't easy, it takes pretty much a lifetime to fully accept yourself. I am still a work in progress of my own acceptance. I accept that I will always be on a path to my own acceptance. I don't know if it will take me farther down the road toward being a woman, or simply continue where I am and in a more comfortable state. I may be where I am supposed to be, as genderfluid. Or one day who knows. What I do know is that while it is a challenge, while it is frustrating as hell sometimes, I am at a better place now internally than ever before.




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keira166

Quote from: Gendermutt on May 08, 2016, 08:35:59 AM
You are gender variant....

Trans, or not trans, it doesn't really matter.

This, so much!  Thank you gendermutt!

I started and still look at transgender as nothing more than a tool for dealing with one of my issues (I even felt ashamed at first that I was hijacking a legitimate label, but I decided to say screw it, I'm using the idea anyway).  I had all these concepts of what trans meant, like crossdressing, taking hormones, hating cis ppl, but I learned that its all pretty much BS.  It doesn't really mean any of that, its the idea of doing whatever it takes to help yourself feel better with any gender issues you have.  That's why for me, I have that excitement of being trans and non binary, bc they're tools to fight problems that trying to be a manly man couldn't deal with.  Nothing more. 

It is common that trans people feel better with hormone treatment, crossdressing, or changing how they act socially.  Those aren't actually a necessity with being trans though, don't ever let anyone tell you anything is a for sure prerequisite of being trans.  They'd just be trying to exclude and isolate you.  Same if you wanted to be a man or woman.  It saddens so much when people try to defend the "sanctity" of labels like woman, man, or trans at the cost of someone trying to improve themselves. 

At the end of the day, if gender variant (in all its glorious lack of definition) isn't something that makes you better, then don't use it and throw it away.  Same with the label transgender.  Or man or woman.

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Sno

Quote from: keira166 on May 08, 2016, 11:51:18 AM

At the end of the day, if gender variant (in all its glorious lack of definition) isn't something that makes you better, then don't use it and throw it away.  Same with the label transgender.  Or man or woman.


This ^^^^

I feel that some are closer to one end of the spectrum than the other, it's a slider, not a simple switch. By trying things out, we can determine what works for us, and what doesn't...  I loved it when a store called me Mrs on their invoice, a clerical error that was a real highlight, it made me feel so good.

Sno
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rachel_grr

I love Gendermutt's and Keira's last responses so much I saved it to reread and remind myself later on. Thanks! (I don't think I have enough posts to give reputation to yet)
Should I be a working Toyota Corolla, or a broken down Ferrari?
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jayne01

OMG! HOLY CRAP! WTF! ****! (Insert favourite 4 letter word) This may turn into a long winded post, so please bear with me.

After reading some replies this morning this reply from rejennyrated got me thinking.

Quote from: Rejennyrated on May 08, 2016, 04:45:53 AM

My gut is that if you do not feel fullfilled on at least some level by the idea of being trans, however terrifying a challenge it may seem at the outset, then you probably arent.

I know when most people start on the road it seems like a long and hard climb, but at some level, they do feel a sense of excitement to be finally attempting the journey. Reading thorugh you posts, and the fact that 14 pages later you are still sounding more negative than positive, I cannot entirely convince myself that you do feel that excitement and this makes me suspect, at this stage, that your solution may lie on another path.

Reading the above post got me wondering what would I really think if I was told I'm not trans. On the surface, that sounds like the perfect outcome. However, in reality it may not be an accurate diagnosis. The idea of not being trans and perhaps never speaking of it again actually made me feel like I would be destroying part of myself.

Anyway, my wife and I were participating in the Red Bull Wings for Life World Run in Sweden today. It is a charity run that is done all over the world at the same time to raise money for spinal chord damage research. It's a different kind of race. Everyone starts at the same time and 30 minutes later a catcher car starts to follow at a set speed. You keep running until the car catches up with you, then your race is over. There is no fixed finish line. I managed 10.5 km before I got caught, my wife made it 12.1km. (The worldwide winner made it 88.4km!!!) Sorry, I got sidetracked...

After I got caught, I made my way to the nearest shuttle bus to return to the starting point. (My wife made it further than me so was on a different bus). Because the roads were closed to cars for the race, the remaining streets were choked with traffic and it took nearly 2 hours to get back. Sitting on the bus for that time, I was thinking about  what you have all said to me here and I kept thinking how I was feeling right then. I was feeling feminine in my head. I couldn't see my reflection anywhere and tried not to think what I actually look like and it turns out I was relating more to the women than the men that were around me. (Seeing my reflection has a way of slapping me in the face and back to reality) Not because of anything they said or did, but just because they were female. I couldn't understand it, but that's just the way it was. That's when all the lightbulbs came on and I realised that I am in fact transgender. I don't know to what extent and I cannot prove it one way or the other, but it just seemed fitting. That is when I started to cry. Not blubbering type crying, but just silent crying to myself with tears running down my face. That lasted for about half the bus ride back. Good thing I was wearing sunglasses because I might have freaked out the other people on the bus.

I all of a sudden felt relieved, afraid, happy. I became very afraid about what this might all mean, but I tried not to dwell on that. Even though I am afraid, I think I might finally be ready to face whatever may be next.

The weird thing is that I still do not want to be trans, and don't particularly like that I am, but that is not in my control. I don't know how trans I am. By the time evening came around, I was almost back to my previous state of denial, a little shame, self doubt, etc, but something has changed. I'm not feeling as angry about being me. I may be a little bit trans or a lot, but it seems I am somewhere on the spectrum away from cis. Now I am not prepared to say with 100% certainty that I am trans, but there is a very high chance that I am. Maybe 90% certain!?! I would still like to be able to take a test to prove it either way once and for all. As you already know, no such test exists, so I'll have to settle for my best guess, and hopefully when I next see my therapist, she can back up my new found discovery to hopefully boost my confidence that I am on the right track.

I am really afraid of what this is doing to my wife, but I agree with what many of you had said that she does not want to see me in distress. I know for a fact that seeing me in distress upsets her. I hope she can still see me for who I am on the inside. I don't wang to lose her, I would be devastated.

Ok, that's enough for now. I am ready to hear  all the "I told you so's". Don't be shy, I can take it. :)

Jayne

PS: thank you for persisting with me. I knew eventually the penny would drop!
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