the nonbinary transsexual

[Satinjoy]

I am meeting more and more transfolks that id this way.  Some full time, some socially fluid, some nonsocially transitioned.

But all are trans, all are transitioing or transitioned.  Some low dose, some high.

I help a young person that ids as nonbinary.  She is full time, is saving for her op, is she on the phone.  Fully girl and very pretty, but she does not reject her male instincts.  She is so far to the femsle it throws me.

Its self perception isnt it? Recognizing..for some not all..that its not a total gender change, that we are somehow different from women.  Some, not all.  Some of us girls are women to the core.  I am not invalidating that.

Do you live like this?  Or in some variation of being fully transsexual, yet with a twist?

Something to think about.

Satin Joy

[Kylo]

I consider myself a hybrid.

[Devlyn]

I'll do you one better, I've stolen Shantels' description: Exotic hybrid. 

[arice]

I consider myself masculine of centre and I'd like top surgery and possibly hormones... but I also don't negate the effects of my lifetime being seen as some sort of female. I think that if I had transitioned as a child or teen then I might have been able to be a binary trans guy... but I didn't know it was an option.

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[suzifrommd]

I am living as a full-time post-op transwoman. My internal gender is something few people know.

[AnxietyDisord3r]

I consider myself third sex. As much for social reasons as anything else (socialization, transitioning at middle age).

One of my best friends is non binary trans and genderqueer, and they've identified that way for a long time. Just started HRT (low dose) and doing very well on it. I noticed a big difference after one week, kind of striking. (A lot of nervous tics had just stopped.)

[Satinjoy]

Third sex makes sense to me too.

[JoanneB]

I'll do you one better, I've stolen Shantels' description: Exotic hybrid. 

My self esteem will be showing when I say genetic throwback. Just about every other aspect of my life it's obvious I lost the gene-pool lottery

[Satinjoy]

I think you won it honey...

[MichelleZelda]

I am not 100% on how I want to describe/identify my gender but it does shift around the andro end of masculine fairly deeply into feminine. I feel more comfortable attempting to present as female most of the time but I know a lot of the time I don't quite pull it off very well. I almost definitely want ffs,  pretty unsure about bottom surgery. Thank god I can't drive, I'll end up spending the same as a new car... actually a driver's license might come in handy...

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[Rejennyrated]

Personally I think in many cases non-binary is probably an example of the kind of overthinking and over self-definition that we are all prone to do when we have done something so radical as to transition and have surgery. I think of myself as "ME" pure and simple. Am I masculine or feminine? Well thats something for others to decide because I cant really see myself through their eyes. Have I now got female shaped bits? Yes. Did I at birth? No! Did I want to be female? yes! Does anyone ever question that I am? No. I think thats generally far enough when it comes to self definition.

I am told that I am quite middle of the road territory in my personality so that had I been born with female bits people would have merely thought me a bit of a tomboy and slightly butch. However as I had notionally male parts at birth nobody had any problems with that either and I was thought merely slightly soft and a little on the sensitive side. My point is that most cis peple are a natual mix too and thus if you have one of those middle ground personalities it doesnt mean you have to be "non-binary" - it just means you are pretty normal because most cis people are a spectrum of personality types and interests and behaviours too...

If a cis woman goes to football and mends cars she is just sporting and practical - if someone trans does the same OMG she must be non-binary!!!

Well no actually I'm not - I'm just a woman who happens to like a few unusual things and has a strong personality. Thats all. So while we all obviousy have the right to subjectively self define I actually think that true non binaries that I or anyone else would objectively recognise as such are actually rarer than hens teeth. All of which is not to say NB's dont exist, or are in any-way invalid. Just that I think they are actally quite rare.

[suzifrommd]

If a cis woman goes to football and mends cars she is just sporting and practical - if someone trans does the same OMG she must be non-binary!!!

I don't think so. Your gender isn't about what you do. Working on cars and liking football doesn't make you male or female.

Gender is about who you are.

My gender has nothing to do with whether my habits and interests are masculine or feminine. My gender has to do with the fact that I don't have an internal sense of being male or female (most of the time).

[Satinjoy]

We dont need to worry about labeling.  I deliberately put two sometimes percieved as mutually exclusive terms in the thread title. 

Like Susie i do not percieve myself as a woman.  But if woman is defined by body sex and sexuality then i am a preop woman. 

Its like getting a mammogram or peeing full out she.  They dont know...i use my airy whisky voice.   Staff does a doubletake before they call my trans name, insurance has my male name.  I have a carry letter saying i am a nonbinary transgender woman from my shrink, i dont really need to do more than that.

We can gender activities.  I can race cars.  So can Danika.  Our gender is not defined by traditionally male assigned activity.

Its that sense of belonging that strikes me as nonbinary.  Not belonging to either gender.  Being a combination of it instead, simultaneously.

Not having to hide under voice, or false body language, or voice tricks.  Just being myself.  Sh'e bodied and all.

But put me in a bathroom or doc office, im not letting anyone see a hint of male.  Even on the street.  Its a safety issue, i hide from evil men in plain sight as a full out girl.

It comes naturally to me anyway.  Its not an act.  Its only what i choose to reveal, just as it would be with a lover, when i allow myself to be taken.  I let them in to my most vulnrable and special self.  And thats all girl.

How much of my gender is reacting to social pressures?

A lot.

My real name is Trinity now.

My heart goes out to you my dears.  It is nice to post in this section again with out being afraid.

Satinjoy

[nameuser]

Hybrid is a good word for it

I never quite know how to justify my gender to people. I know I'm male, because I just do. That's about the extent of it. And that's a strange thing to have to justify.

I'm masculine enough that during the girl mode years, there was a lot of friendly teasing, but a few people are struggling to accept me as a trans man because, "You're just so feminine. You're so neutrois. Are you sure you're not something in between?" Makes me giggle every time. Femininity is not a trait that would ever have been applied to me had I not come out as trans.

My point...er, if I have one...

I assume that for most people, other people's perceptions are irrelevant to your internal sense of gender. You know that you're male/female/neither/both/NB/etc because - you just do.

Society's gender stereotypes make plenty of cis people deeply unhappy, it's worth remembering. You don't have to justify yourself by trying to fit the mould. And if, like most people, you don't fit - that doesn't put your actions in conflict with who you are. It just makes you a slightly more interesting person.

In my case, I spent my formative teenage years at an all girls school - I have no idea how to behave like a cis man, and I don't care :3 Socially, those were the best years of my life - gender barely existed there. We were just people. That's how I wish wider society was.

My transsexual twist? I consider myself binary male, but socially, I'm very much one of the girls. Hopefully when I sprout my beard, they'll still accept me

[Devlyn]

Personally I think in many cases non-binary is probably an example of the kind of overthinking and over self-definition that we are all prone to do ...

I'm not a man, I'm not a woman. I'm non-binary.

Judging from the length of your reply compared to mine, it's obvious who's overthinking it. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[Satinjoy]

Its an easy thing to overthink.  Coping with being trans at all can drive you crazy.  Add mixed gender perception into it, and it can get complicated. The important thing is learning to accept and cope with who you are.  Whether binary or nonbinary.

I liked the respectful tone - and I trigger easy.

Since I am the op, just thought I'd say it.  By the way, since I am putting up my usual self in my avatar..

Say hello to a hens tooth.  Yup, sh'e has teeth lol.  As the old ones know well....

Lets enjoy the thread... I am enjoying each and every post.  Its good to ask the questions and learn from each other, to unite in trans.

[Tessa James]

We have said it and heard it here many times before.  There is much more than a single exclusive narrative for being a transgender person.  Our deeply personal, subjective and intrinsic sense of gender and who we are is, for me, not a debate stage.  I was troubled and found endless ways to avoid self acceptance as transgender because I once believed in a narrow interpretation of what is transgender.  I socialized and worked with transgender people for decades but was able to find the differences in other's interpretation and experiences that I once thought must exclude me from the club.

Labels are an ephemeral bit of culture that we can have fun with and need not be such a minefield of you and them territory.  I am also a Humanist and i enjoy the concept of creating and welcoming larger circles of humanity wherein everyone is included and we invite everyone to be IN.

Yup we are all in the IN CROWD so let us please celebrate our wonderful diversity, tenacity and beautiful expressions of self and culture.

[jossam]

I am 100% male, in the sense of gender identity. I don't feel like I could be anything else. It's an alien concept for me. I'm a trans man, fully man, it's just my body that doesn't align, and I want to transition completely at some point in my life. I will be waiting for better options for bottom surgery though, because that one is difficult.

I agree that gender has nothing to do with interests, hobbies or anything else. I have both "masculine and feminine interests". I am interested in plumbing and want to learn how to repair stuff. Just an example of typically masculine interests I have. But I also want to learn how to cook delicious food. I have very masculine interests but sometimes I'm also sophisticated in mannerisms and hand gestures, to the point sometimes I end up looking like an effeminate guy.
But all of this has absolutely nothing to do with my gender that I have always felt like it's 100% male.

I do not understand non-binary experiences simply because I could never imagine myself as non-binary, or anything else than man. It is difficult to understand what does not happen to me. It's kinda like how I could never understand cis people because I just don't know what it feels like to have body and brain sex aligned since birth.

But the great thing about the world is diversity. And especially in the LGBT community. I love how diverse we are yet we fight for the same right: to be accepted and loved just like everybody else.

As a completely binary trans guy I just don't understand the experience of non-binary trans people, but I will fight for everyone's rights and I don't need to fully understand other identities in order to empathize with their struggles. I wish all cis people could think like this. We wouldn't face all the hatred and discrimination we still face.

I don't know how rare non-binary people are. I just know they exist and experience gender in a different way that might sound confusing at first. It was tough for me to understand non-binary trans people. I guess what confused me was all those tumblr people that sometimes just give distorted views of things. But the posts in this thread clarified things immensely. So yeah, we're different and we might not fully understand each other's experiences, but it's a good thing to celebrate diversity within the trans community.

[Elis]

This is an interesting topic. For me when I began questioning my gender I thought I was gender queer then realised I never felt female and labelled myself a trans man. Now that I'm more confident in myself and on T I'd say I'm 90% male and 10% agender. I just feel like me; I love to be fem as well as masculine some days. I have agender days were I feel like I have no gender; were I just don't fit in any camp. I think to myself there are guys who like to be fem and wouldn't label themselves as nb but are cis; yet when I say to myself I am a man; it just doesn't sit right. I feel uneasy when someone's says he or Mr to me. Which I think marks the difference between people who simply like to dress and act in a way which isn't a steotype of their gender and people who aren't cis and fit somewhere in the trans spectrum.

Reading Jossam's post I would love to be able to swap brains with him to know what being a 100% male feels like. But I suppose it's just an innate feeling which is impossible to explain much like me feeling agender; which is hella confusing. There's a NB social group meeting this sat which I'm thinking I'm going too. It'll be great to learn more about nbs and hopefully I'll get some answers myself.

[jossam]

Sometimes I feel like I don't fit anywhere socially because being pre-everything, I don't know what it feels like to grow facial hair and shave it, for example. So if a group of guys discusses about facial hair I feel like I still can't understand that experience, but at some point in life I finally will. So I feel like I still fit because after all, no matter what our physical differences are we all share the same male identity and it's like a big family with diverse people who still share one main thing in common.

But in a group of women I feel totally out of place even when they start discussing about things like physical "events" I experience too...for example  periods. It just makes me feel really weird and like a total alien among humans, even when they talk about merely physical things that my body experiences too. Not to mention when they start talking about girly things, but that's a different story and is completely social.

But I guess it's a totally different thing I am discussing here. We were talking about our inner and deep sense of identity regardless of anatomy or physical functions. And well, that is completely binary male for me, so if I start thinking about non-binary people I just can't picture myself like that. I just can't grasp the concept lol. Agender is even more complex. And saying 90% male and 10% agender is extremely confusing to me lol so yeah swapping brains for one day would be the only way for us to understand each other. I agree, it's innate and there is no way to fully understand someone else's gender experience.