My Yeson VFS experience

[anjaq]

Yes, I know. I had the same problems and it took many months to get the hang of it. Really - unlearning what I learned before about my voice, dealing with that subconscious drop in pitch that brings me into an uncomfortable range but my brain thinks it should be comfortable - I think the exercises, the Botox and the Clonazepam are what Dr Kim puts his hopes on for us to unlearn and relearn how to use our voices.

[Denjin]

Thanks, Anja.   Oh well, at least I was warned this surgery took a long time to recover from.  Although, some people do seem to have a much easier time.  Those with deeper and/or not very trained voices pre-op seem to have an easier time since perhaps their brain is forced into a reset.

Will do my six week recording tomorrow.

[Denjin]

My voice is getting a bit stronger this week, finally.  Still have a hard time with resonance and other things, but it's getting better. I'm not really trying, but I at least have the strength for some amount of prosody now. Also, my voice gives out quite easily, but then again I'm not supposed to do 'normal conversations' for another two weeks. These recordings are lower pitch than a week ago since they are before my voice starts getting really weird and higher...

Week 6-
Comma gets a cure
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1RKu1QPqKaL

Rainbow passage
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1W0VCjldTdS

[jollyjoy]

Sounds great for only 6 weeks! At 6 weeks, my voice at the time sounded quite off.

My voice is getting a bit stronger this week, finally.  Still have a hard time with resonance and other things, but it's getting better. I'm not really trying, but I at least have the strength for some amount of prosody now. Also, my voice gives out quite easily, but then again I'm not supposed to do 'normal conversations' for another two weeks. These recordings are lower pitch than a week ago since they are before my voice starts getting really weird and higher...

Week 6-
Comma gets a cure
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1RKu1QPqKaL

Rainbow passage
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1W0VCjldTdS

[anjaq]

Thanks, Anja.   Oh well, at least I was warned this surgery took a long time to recover from.  Although, some people do seem to have a much easier time.  Those with deeper and/or not very trained voices pre-op seem to have an easier time since perhaps their brain is forced into a reset.

Yes, I believe that it can be beneficial to not have trained your voice too much and for too long before the surgery - although some voice training seems beneficial.

And I also think that if the pitch change is very significant, it is easier to not try and fall back into old habits and pitches. Like me - I had originally about 110-120 Hz voice, trained the voice for almost 2 decades and had initially probably about 170 Hz, which degraded over time to become more like 150 Hz when I elevated pitch a bit and to about 135 Hz when I relaxed. Now Post OP, my new pitch seems to be about 180-190 Hz, which makes sense to me (110+75=185), but looks not that great when taking the pre OP pitch as a start (135 Hz+ 75 = 210). In any case, my voice is easily capable of still doing the 150 Hz and even the 135 Hz , but its in a way lower than the optimum - still my brain tries to get there because its used that this is a pitch that is comfortable and not straining my voice. Now if I did not have the training and would have started at 110 Hz, going to 185 Hz directly, there is barely a chance I can get to 110 Hz now - its really the lower end of my range - so I would not be able to subconsciously match my old pitch anymore, which would probably make my brain realize faster that something is very different now

[Denjin]

Sounds great for only 6 weeks! At 6 weeks, my voice at the time sounded quite off.

Thanks, Joy! It only sounds like that for like 30 minutes per day now I think.  Did you have the triple?  That definitely seems to make things take longer... But, the healing process does seem to take a long time!

Yes, I believe that it can be beneficial to not have trained your voice too much and for too long before the surgery - although some voice training seems beneficial.

And I also think that if the pitch change is very significant, it is easier to not try and fall back into old habits and pitches. Like me - I had originally about 110-120 Hz voice, trained the voice for almost 2 decades and had initially probably about 170 Hz, which degraded over time to become more like 150 Hz when I elevated pitch a bit and to about 135 Hz when I relaxed. Now Post OP, my new pitch seems to be about 180-190 Hz, which makes sense to me (110+75=185), but looks not that great when taking the pre OP pitch as a start (135 Hz+ 75 = 210). In any case, my voice is easily capable of still doing the 150 Hz and even the 135 Hz , but its in a way lower than the optimum - still my brain tries to get there because its used that this is a pitch that is comfortable and not straining my voice. Now if I did not have the training and would have started at 110 Hz, going to 185 Hz directly, there is barely a chance I can get to 110 Hz now - its really the lower end of my range - so I would not be able to subconsciously match my old pitch anymore, which would probably make my brain realize faster that something is very different now

That sounds similar to me - my brain wants to go lower.  My current pitch (which, based on what I have seen in other threads) probably won't go up much more if at all?  I really don't know what my pre-op pitch was, but I really don't think it was as low as 135Hz, since I  did a fake 'as low as possible' recording (a few posts up) before surgery and it was only a little bit lower than that. But, if my fundamental was like 150 (seems about right for me), then I should be higher than I am now. I've not really done a similar recording post op yet as I think lower pitches are harder on the vocal cords?  Something for 8 weeks...

[anjaq]

Well, my pitch range did not change that massively with surgery. It was 85-880 Hz before an is 100-760 Hz now. So I cannot go all the way low anymore, but still pretty low and at the upper end I am having issues that I can probably train out and on better days I already reach 880 again, I believe.
So the pitch potential is the same, but the comfortable pitch the voice wants to be at is different and its just really hard to find that spot and to convince your brain that this is right now. So the combination to look for is a higher pitch that feels omfortable and in which you can speak naturally in - even if your brain still partly thinks its too high to be healthy. Its a tough job that will take its time and your dedication.

[Denjin]

Thanks, Anja. 

What I don't understand is that Dr. Kim said to 'just speak' and not try and change the voice at all. However, if that results in a voice that somehow feels slightly uncomfortable or is more difficult than one that is a tiny bit higher, than surely the latter is better?  He thought that years of clenching the muscles in that area is what caused my tremor in the first place.  Maybe I should email Jessie...

[anjaq]

What I don't understand is that Dr. Kim said to 'just speak' and not try and change the voice at all. However, if that results in a voice that somehow feels slightly uncomfortable or is more difficult than one that is a tiny bit higher, than surely the latter is better?

Yes - he says different things. One one hand he says to just speak and be relaxed about it - but then he also said at times to use a higher pitch... I think what he tries to say is that one should use a pitch that is higher than before the surgery, but to use it comfortably and not by pressing the voice or pushing it into that pitch. Thats a bit tricky - since at least my brain often tried to increase pitch with the means it used before the surgery - which did of course not work and only hurt my voice. So its hard to find a way to increase pitch in a very relaxed way - I think the voice exercises help - they teach you to relax and still vary pitch - and then you need to find a pitch that you can "just speak" in , without pushing it, but still that pitch is higher than pre OP.

What I did was to try one exercises from my SLT. I just lay down or sit upright and breathe in through the nose, out through the mouth using abdominal breathing. Then I try to relax my throat and everything else. Then I make an "fff" sound and very silently add a sound to it like "ffffoooo" or "fffffuuuu". Very softly and without controlling the pitch. Often I managed to get a pitch then that was relaxed but higher than it would have been before the surgery. It was about 190 Hz. And this seems to be about where my preferred pitch now is.

[Denjin]

Thanks for the explanations, Anja. I also emailed Jessie to ask her if I'm doing something wrong.  If I am indeed supposed to try to raise pitch but just use little effort I guess I'm just not used to my shorter vocal cords yet. I did a test again today and my pitch first thing in the morning was like 190Hz or so, but when I got back from work it was closer to 225 and I think that's with the same effort, although it has a sort of laryngitis quality to it in the evening. So, I wonder if I'm doing something wrong.

Using your last example, I have a similar occurrence between morning and evening.

[anjaq]

Well - 190 Hz as well as 225 Hz are both absolutely in the female range, so clearly they are changed, right? I mean if you have been in the male range before but now its 190-225 Hz, thats pretty ok, it seems to me? I went from 110-135 to now about 170-200 Hz and that seems ok too, although I believe that occasionally I drop below 170 Hz and thats not a good range to stay in. Also 170 Hz is actually too low, but it happens to me often. But 190-200 is perfect

[Denjin]

Well, it's hardly changed from before.  190 was my good trained voice...but my lazy one was closer to 160. A few posts up I have a sort of fake deep recording that shows the lowest I could possibly go before it all.  This means I'm basically up about 30Hz instead of 75. Hell, I did a rainbow passage recording now and it was only 210, so it's closer to a 20Hz improvement. But, I still don't use as much prosody as I used to before all of this since the voice still feels weak and hard to control, so who knows.

[anjaq]

but my lazy one was closer to 160. .....
I did a rainbow passage recording now and it was only 210, so it's closer to a 20Hz improvement. But, I still don't use as much prosody as I used to before all of this since the voice still feels weak and hard to control, so who knows.

Well first of all, you should take the "lazy one" as your starting point (actually you should take your pre transition voice as a reference, but you probably have no record of that either). From 160 to 210 is a 50 Hz gain and that is pretty ok - considering 160 Hz is gender neutral and 210 Hz is female. The 75 Hz are an average. I think some get the 75 Hz, some get 50 and some get 100. If you had a good trained voice before, often what you get after the surgery is to have that same voice but effortless and to me it seems that this is the case with you, except you gained a bit in pitch compared to your trained voice as well. In any case - 210 Hz is perfectly female - so I think that is the goal of the surgery, right?

[Denjin]

Here are my 8 week recordings.  I do have a lisp naturally and have to focus to enunciate properly, but I really didn't for these so it's more natural.  Still have some issues with pitch control and my old resonance technique seems to work differently now, and my voice also has a 'laryngitis' quality to it.  However, I'm not trying to raise pitch or anything, it's just speaking.

Rainbow Passage
http://vocaroo.com/i/s09a2MTz0WIu

Comma Gets a Cure
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1z5KuLPyKKq

[bmiranda]

Here are my 8 week recordings.  I do have a lisp naturally and have to focus to enunciate properly, but I really didn't for these so it's more natural.  Still have some issues with pitch control and my old resonance technique seems to work differently now, and my voice also has a 'laryngitis' quality to it.  However, I'm not trying to raise pitch or anything, it's just speaking.

Rainbow Passage
http://vocaroo.com/i/s09a2MTz0WIu

Comma Gets a Cure
http://vocaroo.com/i/s1z5KuLPyKKq

WOW! You really sound good and better than before!

Congrats!!! 

[Denjin]

Thanks, Brenda.  I can't wait for the healing to finish, though.  I always sound like a have a head cold or something, but it's getting better.

[bmiranda]

Thanks, Brenda.  I can't wait for the healing to finish, though.  I always sound like a have a head cold or something, but it's getting better.

You're welcome sweety! Ditto! I just started my speech therapy as recommended by Professor Remacle and I hope it will help me to gain more volume which I desperately need when I speak in public.

Take care,
Brenda

[Denjin]

You're welcome sweety! Ditto! I just started my speech therapy as recommended by Professor Remacle and I hope it will help me to gain more volume which I desperately need when I speak in public.

Take care,
Brenda

I start my sessions next week - can't wait.  I have problem speaking loudly (well, speaking loudly and having it sound ok), but I can do some of my Yeson voice exercises very loudly and clearly.  Not sure why voice doesn't work as well but singing and making tones seems ok. Hopefully the speech therapist will know!

[bmiranda]

I start my sessions next week - can't wait.  I have problem speaking loudly (well, speaking loudly and having it sound ok), but I can do some of my Yeson voice exercises very loudly and clearly.  Not sure why voice doesn't work as well but singing and making tones seems ok. Hopefully the speech therapist will know!

Well, I am okay when I speak privately or over the phone and happy with it. But once outside, I feel like I have the need to put a lot of effort to make me hear and when I try to speak higher or with more volume, I just don't like the way I sound I am hoping too that my speech therapist will know how to solve this

[Denjin]

That sounds very familiar, Brenda.  I also seem fine on the phone... I think my brain is trying to keep some old speech pattern when I go loudly in public, which is causing problems.  At least we'll both get some help from speech therapists soon.