I do not understand some trans people

[JoanneB]

If you cannot be honest, open, and forthcoming to your BFF and person you commited to spend your life with, then why the hell are you there?

Is it better not to tell her, Or... wait untill she asks "Hon, why do have boobs?" and punt?

I can see stalling to see if after a month or two the HRT magic worked for you and it's rapidly approaching the "It's almost too late to talk to her" point. I went through a similar situation with my wife when I first started attending a TG support group. By meeting #3 I knew I needed to be there and, it was almost too late to tell her if there was going to be any chance of keeping the marriage viable.

[Emileeeee]

Honesty is a requirement in marriage. I would not want to be in their shoes when she finds out. I think losing the marriage could be the least of their worries.

[Paige]

The thing I think you all miss, which by the way I have tested and proven in my own life, and that of my fiancee susan too, is that most of the time people will continue to be obstructive just long enough for you to prove your determination. Once they see your mind is settled they usually back off and eventually come around. The point is if you chicken out or blink first you never reach that point, and live in the illusion that the problem is insoluble.

It's not, it's only insoluble if you give up before you reach the solution.

In short compromise and soft peddling is a silly notion... if you are going to it, do it come hell or high water. If not then don't, but as Yoda would say, "there is no try, there is only do or do not."

Hi Rejenny,

After 30 years of living with someone, you have a pretty good idea if the other person is bluffing.  Unfortunately my wife is very stubborn and I really don't doubt for a minute that she'll walk away. 

Thanks for the advice,
Paige

[Paige]

If you cannot be honest, open, and forthcoming to your BFF and person you commited to spend your life with, then why the hell are you there?

Is it better not to tell her, Or... wait untill she asks "Hon, why do have boobs?" and punt?

I can see stalling to see if after a month or two the HRT magic worked for you and it's rapidly approaching the "It's almost too late to talk to her" point. I went through a similar situation with my wife when I first started attending a TG support group. By meeting #3 I knew I needed to be there and, it was almost too late to tell her if there was going to be any chance of keeping the marriage viable.

Why do you continue to spend your life with someone?  Well you love each other, you love your kids and you don't want to cause a complete cluster <Not Permitted> to their lives.   I didn't say honesty wasn't important, my wife knows I'm battling with this.  She's not very sympathetic but she knows.   All I'm saying is this isn't as easy as honesty is the best policy.

Thanks,
Paige


Mod Edit:Language

[Gendermutt]

I love these thought provoking threads.
1st, I don't think we can have an expectation that transgender people are going to be any better than non transgender people overall. We are 1st and foremost humans, the good, the bad, the ugly. Half of all marriages at least fail. A big reason is infidelity. Is infidelity on the rise, or are people now holding themselves to a higher standard and choosing to not live with lies and a cheating spouse? My bet is the latter. So, in a way, that half fail number isn't necessarily a bad thing. IMO of course.

As for having a friend that is lying to their partner/ not divulging the truth of their being transgender, and going farther and farther on the path, a good friend, a true friend can only advise them of how they are only trapping themselves in their own prison by doing so. They can tell their friend that a marriage built on a weak foundation of lies will eventually fail anyway. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

A true friend will be there for them no matter what, once the bell tolls. Support them with whatever the result may be. A true friend doesn't have to give up their own standards, or cover for the other by way of perpetuating lies. We can draw our own lines as far as our behavior goes. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

What I often see on these forums is someone who will hit the jackpot of an accepting partner, or better, one who prefers the alternative lifestyle of gender variance. That person will not understand how or why others have such difficulties in their relationships. They misunderstand their behavior to be superior which causes someone to accept or like their gender variance. No matter how much a person makes sacrifices or compromises, an unaccepting partner is simply that. And, there are still a great many out there who are unaccepting.

The same goes for those who live in places that have higher than typical acceptance to gender variance or same sex orientation.  "It is all in your own head, the fear of being out and about, no one really cares", so says the person living in San Francisco, or Greenwich village, or Provincetown. As accepting as those places are, there are places that are every bit not accepting. People are still being murdered just for being gay or transgender. People who are gay or transgender are still committing suicide because of the lack of acceptance from those around them. Their family who disowns them, their partners who leave them, friends who abandon a life long friendship because of it.

Like others have said above, the fear of abandonment, of being alone is strong. It is not always such an easy choice, to be who you really are but alone, or to be together with someone you love and hide. Of course we know that the best partner to have is one who knows all and accepts all. And the best way to find that person is to tell them upfront. Then, We don't have to go through all of the work to get acceptance, the often times years of patience while their partner slowly builds a comfort level to a point where they can even accept that their partner is transgender, let alone be ok with whatever changes they make in their lifestyle. Especially a full transition to their internal identity.

Obviously, there are success stories on here and other places. Some marriages and partnerships do survive it. Many don't. Anyone who is still concealing the truth of their being transgender lives in that fear that their marriage or partnership will end, and there is a good chance that they are right too. I think some people adopt an attitude of continuing concealment thinking each day I get away with it is another day with them and one less day without them.

Obviously for those who are or will transition, the bell tolls eventually, as it has to. Helen Boyd who most of us are aware of has even said that in cases of those who are CDers (not transitioning) that the wife not knowing may not always be the wrong thing. I am not going to necessarily agree with that. But from someone who has lived with it to the point they wrote books about it, their opinion is worth at least a few grains of salt.

[AnonyMs]

So I live as a Man, take very low E, only a bit of Spiro, and continue to desire electrolysis each morning as I despise shaving my face and neck. Some days I am ok as a man. Some days not...not today.

I live as a man, but I'm on a very high level of HRT and don't shave. Facial stubble keeps me looking male. To all external appearances I'm male, but the HRT keeps me sane.

[HappyMoni]

I have decided I am not smart enough to live someone else' s life for them. I would want trans people to be truthful as soon as they can. Trans people owe it to themselves to try to be who they are. We should also be good people and take into account the feelings of others. It is a balancing act. For some that is harder than others. The fear inside of us, the pressure to be what everyone expects us to be can be immense. It would be a shame if we are not true to ourselves because we fear what could happen with people's reactions. Some may use others as a reason not to move forward with what they want to do for themselves. Others could be faced with a situation of really hurting someone they love if they do move forward. I guess if anyone wanted advice from me on being honest and coming out, I would say this. Be respectful, be thoughtful. Try to understand how the other person might feel. Show them the choice you are faced with. (For me it was being depressed, angry, and disliking myself vrs. a very tough road that gave the chance to be happy as a whole person.) Make it more of an explanation than an ultimatum. Be patient with a loved one if possible. I think so many times people's reactions are made or broken on how we present it. To be fair to us, we are someone's loved one. We don't deserve to be shut down, looked down on, or hated for what we are. Unfortunately, way to many trans people are faced with no win situations.  I won't be mad at anyone handling things their way. I hope I don't sound like I am full of myself. I have been very lucky. It could have gone very different for me. All I know is that I had nothing to be ashamed of if it had gone bad. I did my best.
Moni

[Gendermutt]

There are always so many threads that deal with how to get our partners and family to accept us now that we have revealed ourselves. But it is the not revealing before commitment is what is really the tough part for them as well as for ourselves. Rather than a bunch of how to threads of breaking the news, and dealing with the blow back, we should be working harder at getting people to do so before the commitments we make.

When we do so, it eliminates so many of the challenges and difficulties we who are TG face. Those who choose to be with us knowing about us from the start of commitment never go through all the issues of trust. Where might it go, what does this mean, how do I explain it now after so long? The list of these things goes on almost for eternity. Yet, there is almost no list at all when we are our authentic self from the beginning.

When we start out a relationship, form a commitment then tell, we ourselves are perpetuating it being wrong or negative in some manner. Even though we try our hardest to tell our partners that WE are really ok, and normal in more ways than we are not, our actions speak differently. If it isn't so wrong, or negative, why the years, maybe decades of hiding, lying and deception???

Most of us do not say to each other TO hide it, but IMO we are not helping each other enough by simply trying to mend the relationships post reveal. We should be working harder to not make the reveal a post reveal in the 1st place.

[Magicka]

I definitely can see why your annoyed with that person tc. Trans people need to quite getting with someone and making that person believe they will always be the same person they fell in love with ie a male will always be his wives husband why expect anything else. Then out of nowhere he says I want to be a woman now or I have always been a woman and start transitioning confusing his kids and his wife. Expecting them to just be happy for his self realization and be chipper about it. It don't work that way and should not be expected to at any rate. If one feels like they should be the opposite gender than they should do something about before entering a ltr and having kids that already know you as one thing.

[Serenation]

I really like that Devlyn.

Nicole, I feel we really don't have enough information to judge.

I know my wife has basically said if I start E, our relationship is over.  We've been married for close to 30 years.  She's known almost from the start that I've been battling this.  She has refused to go to a therapists as a couple or by herself.  She doesn't want to talk about anything transgender.  So I'm struggling with my dysphoria taking spiro.   It sort of helps but not much.   I'm between a rock and a hard place.  Do I try to alleviate my dysphoria by taking low dose E and not telling her or tell her that I'm starting E and lose my marriage?  Or do nothing and continue to suffer for the rest of my life.

I'm sure the answer is easier for some, but I have no clue what to do.  Perhaps my example shows that it might not be as black and white as you think.

Take care,
Paige

Need to have balanced hormones, killing your T without something to replace it is not an ideal long term solution.

[cheryl reeves]

I told my wife before we got married I liked dressing as a woman,did some dressing for 11yrs,then during a major fight,it was then I told her the full story for I had nothing too lose. She told me she is fine with the dressing and since I already have a female body hrt is a deal breaker,I'm fine with that for she lets me dress whenever I want around the house. I look weird at times for I keep facial hair for a disguise so people can still think I'm male,besides my wife likes it and even allows me to full shave time to time,she has told me she married a man and I tell her she married me,and I try to be the best me I can be.

[Dee Marshall]

I had been married for 33 years before I even suspected that I'm trans. Like many late transitioners I fought what I knew tooth and nail until I gave in and accepted it. I then took a month with my therapist trying to figure out how I was going to tell Sweetie. Despite that she was angry that I didn't tell her the minute I suspected. We owe our spouses truth, but we don't owe them wild speculation. 

[Tessa James]

I had been married for 33 years before I even suspected that I'm trans. Like many late transitioners I fought what I knew tooth and nail until I gave in and accepted it. I then took a month with my therapist trying to figure out how I was going to tell Sweetie. Despite that she was angry that I didn't tell her the minute I suspected. We owe our spouses truth, but we don't owe them wild speculation.

Leaning and self acceptance do not happen over night.  You note the reality many of us share with a lifetime of denial and repression.  The very word "transgender" was not coined until 1965 and some of us had a different learning curve after that.

[Claire_Sydney]

Gendermutt, I agree with every word of that.

- You can have your own values (I too rate honesty highly) and not have to judge a friend who doesn't live those values the way you would. Especially when it is something as murky as love. There is a difference between giving them a quiet warning about how you see this ending, and rejecting them and insulting them behind their back for not making the same decision you would.

- Trans people are just humans too. This seems to be about a PERSON being dishonest more than a transgender person being dishonest. Plenty of cisgender people are dishonest too. We don't have a monopoly on that.

- A marriage is a complex thing and it really means different things to different people. I'm careful about judging people who have lived a life I couldn't possibly empathise with. Every person is a product of their own experiences.

You write really well Gendermutt.

[Paige]

Need to have balanced hormones, killing your T without something to replace it is not an ideal long term solution.

Hi Serenation,

Yes you're very right. KayXO has explained this to me a few times.  I've been on Spiro for about 7 months now.    I'm not really thinking long term.  I'm just trying to get through the next few months.  I'm hoping to figure something out before this goes on for too much longer but so far no real ideas.

Thanks for the concern,
Paige

[Pengola]

I don't think it should be looked at as a transgender thing , I think it's a human thing , honesty should always be the best policy.

Agreed. I feel we should look at it in the context and not in literal terms. To many of us love is precious and we innately want to preserve and protect what we have. Fear of losing that love is clearly a real perceived threat to your friend and that is something you need to acknowledge. While I do believe honesty is ideal, at times the emotional state and insecurity of the person requires more time than others to openly express that sentiment.

[michelle]

In my life's experiences no matter what you do in life it may cause hurtful feelings in the persons we are closest to.  And no matter what decisions we make we wind up in the same place.   If I had transitioned earlier in my married life maybe my marriage would have ended and I would have had a better ideas why it ended.   But, I didn't and my marriage ended anyway just because my wife wanted to end it.   She was bitter and not wanting to add to the bitterness and because all but one of my kids were adults,  I didn't make custody and issue, and besides I felt that my daughter needed her mother because her mother placed work above family, I had been her primary caregiver for six years before and expressing my bitterness would just have made things worse.   But,  there was anger and bitterness anyway because I didn't make the fuss.   Life is what it is, and sometimes second guessing doesn't make it any better.

We transition because we must and our spouses are with us for their own personal reasons, some of which we might never know.   They may be purely selfish.  But, giving up being yourself,  just so other's can be themselves may self-defeating because when they no longer want us to be part of their lives, they are gone, and we are still our own messed up selves with issues that are even more difficult to deal with.

If your spouse really loves you for the person that you are, and you are important to them, they may stick around in all sorts of difficulties,  but if they only love you for what they want you to be,  because you are trans,  chances are it will fall apart.

As far as children go, your children want and need you to accept them for who they are.  Your children should be just as respectful of you.  Having been full-time female, no hormones or surgery, the past eight years with five kids in my second family from 13 to 26 I am always totally surprised with all the comings and goings of their friends,  and boyfriends, and girlfriends and neighborhood friends and school activities how much being a female father is a very small issue.   I am only the female father to one of the kids, the thirteen-year-old boy.  The other four kids are my cis female partner's kids.

And it may be true with your spouse that in not dealing with your trans issues, there may well be other issues you are not dealing with that could tear your marriage apart.   Looking back at my life and my alcoholic parents I often wonder why some couples spend a whole lifetime together and other's don't.

[AnonyMs]

I know my wife has basically said if I start E, our relationship is over.  We've been married for close to 30 years.  She's known almost from the start that I've been battling this.  She has refused to go to a therapists as a couple or by herself.  She doesn't want to talk about anything transgender.  So I'm struggling with my dysphoria taking spiro.   It sort of helps but not much.   I'm between a rock and a hard place.  Do I try to alleviate my dysphoria by taking low dose E and not telling her or tell her that I'm starting E and lose my marriage?  Or do nothing and continue to suffer for the rest of my life.

I'm sure the answer is easier for some, but I have no clue what to do.  Perhaps my example shows that it might not be as black and white as you think.

I got into a situation a couple of years ago and my therapist gave me some great advice. I was seriously depressed and beginning to become dysfunctional. I was already on low dose HRT, but trying not to go any further in due to family responsibilities. I was becoming incapable of being a decent parent, or even human being, due to stress and depression, and its was also beginning to effect my work.

So my therapist suggest to me that being divorced is not the worst thing that can happen, and there's so much truth in that. I'm not much good to my family if I'm dead, or a terrible parent. They would be better off without me, or at least helping from a distance. I could be happier too, but I wasn't so much concerned about that.

It may be too early for you to tell here you're headed at the moment, or unable to face where that may be. But try to think where you'll be in 5 or 10 years, and you might be able to save everyone a lot of suffering, including yourself.

[Rejennyrated]

After 30 years of living with someone, you have a pretty good idea if the other person is bluffing.  Unfortunately my wife is very stubborn and I really don't doubt for a minute that she'll walk away. 

Yes indeed - a horrible dilemma I know - but of course that was the point of my comment... Its a clear choice. You just have to decide which way you go, "do or do not" because in reality there isnt a third option on the table... and thats where I percieve that a lot of people get lost... because they try all sorts of dodges to convince themselves that they can manuafacture a compromise, and the reality is that experience of just about every darn person who has trodden this road shows that one simply can't. The resultant of the attempt to find middle ground is always two ongoingly unhappy people - where making the clear choice leads to just one - who will then hopefully get over it and eventually either surprise you by coming round, or will move on with their life.

Either way in the long term you both end up with a solution, whereas trying to hedge the issue just leads to never-ending frustration for two. Not a great basis for a happy relationship I fear. Morelike a situation where you both act as each others jailer preventing the other from taking the steps that they need to take to fnd fulfillment.

I do wish you good luck - but remember you may not have asked for this, but it is the life you were given, and you have to lead it in the best possible way.

[Paige]

So my therapist suggest to me that being divorced is not the worst thing that can happen, and there's so much truth in that. I'm not much good to my family if I'm dead, or a terrible parent. They would be better off without me, or at least helping from a distance. I could be happier too, but I wasn't so much concerned about that.

It may be too early for you to tell here you're headed at the moment, or unable to face where that may be. But try to think where you'll be in 5 or 10 years, and you might be able to save everyone a lot of suffering, including yourself.

Hi AnonyMs,

Thanks for the kind remarks.  I'm not really sure why getting divorced seems so difficult for me.  I do love my wife and family but I think there's more to it than that. 

Surprisingly very few people we associate with have gotten divorced.  Our parents didn't divorce.  None of our siblings have gotten divorced.  Very few people I've worked with over the years have gotten divorced. I'm not sure why this is.  In Canada, where I'm from, 41% of marriages aren't suppose to last 30 years.  That's not my experience at all.   Maybe this is one of the reasons divorce seems so foreign to me.

On the other side of this, I'm not really sure I can pull off transition even though I've dreamed of it my whole life.   If I didn't worry so much about what others think of me, it would probably be easier.  The nastiness in the media isn't helping.  I went to a transgender group for 4 months last Fall, and I just felt like an outsider.   The group was dominated by young transpeople so that probably had something to do with it but it still made me feel very awkward.  My two therapists haven't really helped build my courage to do this either. So to me, I'm not sure I can successfully take the plunge.

That's why I'm trying to find an in between solution with spiro and possibly low dose E. 

Either way in the long term you both end up with a solution, whereas trying to hedge the issue just leads to never-ending frustration for two. Not a great basis for a happy relationship I fear. Morelike a situation where you both act as each others jailer preventing the other from taking the steps that they need to take to fnd fulfillment.

I do wish you good luck - but remember you may not have asked for this, but it is the life you were given, and you have to lead it in the best possible way.

Hi Rejennyrated,

Thanks for your comment.  The thing is my wife is quite happy with the status quo.  We could have more money, but she still likes her life with me quite a bit even with me being trans.  She just doesn't want to deal with this.  Having alcoholic parents made her very good at denial.

I'm still functional, even though this tears at me every day.  I often tell myself I've been doing this for 50+ years, why shouldn't I be able to continue this way.  Perhaps in the next few years a magical solution will appear, until then I will muddle through.

Take care,
Paige