Best FFS Place?

[NikkiFaith]

Hello , Im passable mtf transgender . Ive been on hormones for 8 months. Im very interested in these surgeons
1.Harrison Lee
2.Facial Team-Spain
3.DiMaggio
What im looking for is a surgeon who beautifies the face and balances other natural feautures with the surgically constructed results. Please feel free to give me advice,share your personal experiences.

[RubyAliza]

I'm sure you'll get a lot of responses to your post but I'll just say you probably can't go wrong with any of those options. From all the posts/experiences I've read on this board, they're all among the best. Your list is ordered from most expensive to most affordable (Dr. DiMaggio is the most affordable of them even when you consider travel expenses). Facial Team has been getting pretty popular and they do transplants at the time of your ffs, which most other surgeons, if no others, do - that's unique to them. I've read Dr. Lee is fantastic with jaws - see Caitlyn Jenner. He did some really aggressive work on her jaw.

- Ruby

[shoko]

If you go to Facial Team do NOT allow Dr. Bellinga to touch you (rhinoplasty or lip lift)

I should have paid more and stayed local with Dr. Lee, but FT doing the transplant made me decide to go to Spain

[Paula1]

Hi again Shoko,

I am sorry to hear that you have had a bad experience but I am happy with his work so far and so were all the other patients that I have met here in London and in Marbella who have had surgery with him.

Take care

Paula

If you go to Facial Team do NOT allow Dr. Bellinga to touch you (rhinoplasty or lip lift)

I should have paid more and stayed local with Dr. Lee, but FT doing the transplant made me decide to go to Spain

[MysteyV]

Hiya

First FFS is very unlike GRS in that you can get a brilliant surgeon who had zero sense of style and beauty.

Facial team, Van de ven, Suporn, Cardenas, Kaushik, Spiegal etc all good but not in any way exhaustive!!

Now each face is unique and we are ethnically diverse in skin tone, skull shape, common flaws etc

Do bear thus in mind.

So first, contact minimum 10 surgeons with photos of your face from various angles.

Get their advice. If anyone says "you need everything" call b.s.!

Then pay to get your face mocked up in Photoshop and decide which procedures will give you the result you require.

Only then pick an FFS surgeon!! Check out reviews & if they can't produce enough proof skip them.

I contacted American, Mexican, South American, British, European, Indian  & far East.

Narrow down your top 3 then post on Susan's your choices to get opinions.

Good luck!



Kindnesses
Victoria xx

[anjaq]

I would have a hard time getting together a list of 10 names that I consider good enough to be contacted. Interestingly,  of the 4 I contacted (Di Maggio, van de Ven, Facial Team and van der Dussen), only di Maggio recommended "all", van der Dussen recommended almost all procedures, the other two were much more conservative and recommended one or two procedures and the rest was marked as optional

Facial team, Van de ven, Suporn, Cardenas, Kaushik, Spiegal etc all good but not in any way exhaustive!!

Check out reviews & if they can't produce enough proof skip them.

What do you mean with "not exhaustive!" ? - I do not understand. Do you mean there are more peopple that should be on that list or do you mean that there are surgeons doing better work than those in the list?

One issue I have with reviews - they seem to be so random. I had an eye on this for a while and for all surgeons there are many who are feeling great, are so glad they went there, are totally happy about it - and then there are some who say that they were botched and that the surgeon is no good, has not enough experience, charges too much money for what they do, had to do something three times before getting it right, has not enough training... I found it extremely hard to determine who is right. Its like choosing between 10 articles on Amazon who all have a 4.5 star rating with most people loving them but some people being utterly disappointed. Ok, maybe a bad comparison, but in a way thats how I see it. If I meet people in person, I am more confident that they tell at least their experience right, but that still leaves open if this is a proper reflection of the outcomes of that surgeon so far.

How did those here who have made a choice based on exhaustive information gathering rather than simply trusting some few people have found their best surgeon and how did you deal with the massive reports of good and some bad results?

[2cherry]

I think there is only one way to know: meet them, interview them and get a feeling about them. I think trust is the most important aspect. Ask about their work, see if they are passionate about it, and how they feel about operating on a face. Try to understand how passionate they are. My SRS surgeon (virtually unknown) was incredibly passionate. When I asked him: why are you doing these kind of surgeries. He told me: he loved doing those, he enjoyed the complexity. Immediately he started to pull up pictures of him working on a SRS, closeup and the way he talked to me was fascinating, I saw his eye lit up. Then, and there, I knew he was the "one"  I've picked him based on that. Not on reviews. He knew all techniques, and does something similar as suporn. Just a local SRS surgeon.

Another interview idea: ask them about something that isn't related to the surgery, like something specific about hormones he doesn't have to know. He should say: I don't know anything about that. This means that he is a specialist, and isn't some poser. Any scientist is hesitant to speak about something they don't know.

[anjaq]

I think personal sympathy is not always a good judge. I know a number of patients who had SRS with a particular surgeon and are very sad they did this, but when they met that guy, they loved him because he was so kind, talkative, nice, enthusiastic about doing the surgeries - sadly his surgical skills were a gamble - he does some good results and a lot of bad ones. So I am careful about this.
Plus, it seems like a bit extreme to fly to the USA or Argentina from Europe several times to get face to face interviews with surgeons there.

[R R H]

When I stop and think about all the research into this that I've done, looking at surgeons, places or clients, I come back to someone I know who went through PAI. I think she is the best example of FFS I've seen anywhere. Her name's Warlockmaker on here and PAI did superb facial work.

[anjaq]

What is PAI?

My list currently is Facialteam, Maggio, Spiegel, van der Dussen although I did not have a consultation with the last two of that list yet and had a consultation with van der Veen, who I have cut from the list, though. I also cut out Dr Zuchowski. I am undecided if I should add some new names to that list that I did not yet consider - DesChamps (who apparently is a bit secluded though, it's far from easy to get information, and maybe this Dr Lee, although I do not really think that his surgery on Jenner is that impressive - but then she had not the best face to start with - but generally I am a bit unimpressed by surgeons who mainly get their rep from doing surgeries on stars and starlets or who are claiming to be the worlds best...

I also considered Asia, mainly Suporn, but do not yet see if there is any advantage in that while some surgeons from asia seem to asianize the face a bit too much.

Interestingly the price range is huge - DiMaggio recommends "everything" because he sort of has a flatrate surgery, apparently - you pay a rather low price beloe 20000 EU and get as many of the standard procedures as you like. The top range in terms of finances seems to be DesChamps with the standard FFS procedures going well above $45000. I wonder if those price differences really are in any way representative of a different quality of work and if so in what way.

Speaking of this - what are the parameters to judge a surgeon? Usually people say its mostly about personal sympathy and trust for them, plus of course if the surgeon is willing and able to do the procedures one desires. But I find it hard to judge the quality of the surgery or the outcomes or the risks involved, since this information is not transported a lot. Some surgeons show pictures, this can give an impression, but usually there will be some impressive results in those portfolios and also some that seem to be too subtle of a change - the individual makes much of the difference, if its a very masculine face its harder to feminize, except if there is only one big masculine feature, in which case it may be easier to feminize this than a more androgynous-masculine face. And no one likes to talk about risks and few like to talk about details in the surgical procedures (plus most of us cannot really judge if this or that type of incision is better or worse). So I wonder how do I choose the best?

[R R H]

What is PAI?


I also considered Asia, mainly Suporn, but do not yet see if there is any advantage in that while some surgeons from asia seem to asianize the face a bit too much.

PAI: Preecha Aesthetic Institute http://pai.co.th

Dr Preecha trained pretty much everyone who is anyone in Thailand, including Dr Suporn.

Could you possibly be specific about what you mean re. Asianizing the face? I've seen results from there and thought they were stunning but I'm intrigued to know specifically what you would see as Asianizing tendencies?

x

[anjaq]

I personally did not see this, I have it second hand from older texts from 2006 that at that time some of the asian FFS surgeons had a tendency towards asian aesthetics. I guess it is not an issue so much today and not with the higher priced and internationally known surgeons - and no one goes to one of these places that offer FFS for 2999,99$, right?

[R R H]

PAI is high end, state of the art. They use Piyvate hospital for their major ops which is also superb. They have a steady stream of western clients, particularly I notice, eastern Europeans. I love the actual PAI clinic building: it's really lovely.

They're $15,000 compared to around $22,000 for the same op in Europe.

[Miss Clara]

The best FFS surgeon for you is probably not the best for me.   There are so many factors that go into making a choice.  You have to identify your needs and order your priorities, then look for a surgeon who best matches them.

For example, I had fairly strong brow bossing.  I knew that a lot of bone had to be removed.  Getting a good feminine forehead contour was at the top of my list.  When discussing this with various surgeons during consultations I learned that some surgeons could not convince me that they could achieve my goal.  They all claimed they could, but the evidence was lacking.  I think we can assume that all surgeons post their most impressive results on their B&A galleries.  If I couldn't find at least one patient whose strong bossing was fully removed, I removed the surgeon from consideration.  If during a consultation, the surgeon couldn't/wouldn't explain how he/she would burr down my forehead without perforating the anterior wall of the frontal sinus and NOT use bone filler, I crossed that surgeon off my list (Zukowski, Leis, Weinzweig, Meltzer, and others).

I narrowed my list down in descending order of price:

DesChamps
Spiegel
Facial Team
DeMaggio

These four routinely do full forehead reconstruction where the frontal sinus anterior wall is cut out, the forehead burred, and the bone piece replaced and secured with titanium plates/screws.  I crossed off DeMaggio because he routinely fills the frontal sinus with bone filler which I did not feel comfortable with.

Choosing one of the remaining three came down to trust and price.  Dr. DesChamps is relatively new to FFS having taken over from retired Dr. Douglas Ousterhaut, and was the highest in price.  Dr. Spiegel is an ENT, not a certified plastic surgeon, performs his work in a teaching hospital, and I encountered too many complaints about aftercare, one from a personal friend who went to Spiegel.  The doctor never bothered to personally check on my friend after surgery.

Facial Team had many clear examples of beautiful forehead work on their website.  My consultation with Dr. Luis Capitan was thorough, his recommendations were consistent with an independent FFS assessment, and I didn't get any sense that they were cutting corners on the quality of care I would receive.  Finally, I got very positive report from a former patient who had similar work done by FT.

My point is everyone needs to go through their own personal selection process to find the best FFS surgeon for them.  Some girls want subtle, natural FFS work done; others want more aggressive modifications.  Some want to stay close to home while others are willing to travel far to have their work done.  No one should claim that one surgeon is the best for everyone. 

[R R H]

Very good points Clara.

[Miss Lux]

My only advice - go to the one you think is the best don't settle for the cheapest. I committed the mistake of going to one famous but cheap one outside the USA but close but I ended up redoing everything. More expensive in the long run and some damage has been done luckily can be corrected. I din't go to him because he was cheap I chose him because I was fooled by fake reviews or paid/ biased reviews from some girls. When I got there it was no where near as advertised... The surgery was done in a slaughter house like delapidated old hospital where the nurses does not practice aseptic technique, can't start IVs, do not understand or speak english and you'll have to give the nurses money for you to get care otherwise you'll be begging, yell all you want but no one will come to help you.....

[anjaq]

Yikes, Miss Lux, that sounds awful. But I guess its hard to turn away and walk out once one is committed in that hospital and is afraid one would not get a refund if one cancels due to the state of the hospital...

Clara - that sounds like you had a good plan. I myself am honestly less clear in what I really want. I have no special feature that I need to fix - no extra strong masculine part that I need to check for if some of the surgeons can do it or not. I am androgynous and so basically I would need to find a surgeon that can work with that and is not just good at making very masculine faces more female, but one that can make an already androgynous and in some parts feminine face look absolutely female and beautiful - ok, thats the maximum wishlist of course
Most surgeons show cases of people with big bossing or strong jaws and all that - to show how good they can change that, but rarely I see pictures of people that start out more in the middle and if they add makeup in the pictures its even harder to tell how good the change really was.

Sadly it is hard to find independent sources. Even Alexandra who does the VFFS has a tendency to be in tune with FacialTeam, since they adhere to similar principles about facial feminization, which lead them to start working together. This is ok, but of course it also tends to result in Facialteam being usually the best match in respect to the procedures she suggest, because they just think about FFS the same way in terms of priorities and approaches. Still, her assessment matched that of the 4 consultations I had so far, so she will not tell you something that is not true, its not really a bias but more of a parallel thinking, I believe.

I am uncertain about the advantages or disadvantages of filling the frontal sinus - I wonder if filling it may actually be a good thing because of stability and also because one would not have to worry about sinusitis in that part anymore - but then again, I can imagine it also has downsides? Did you research about this?

Dr Spiegel being originally an ENT may actually be a plus, I just realized. So maybe I need to get a consultation with him, because my sinuses are always an issue - maybe he could resulve some functional issues alongside doing FFS - although this seems something other surgeons also claim to be doing.

So overall I am not sure if I want "more agressive" or "more subtle" work, because I am not sure what a modification of a face from androgynous to female would be considered - is it subtle because one has to change less - or is it more agressive because unloess you do more than just a bit, the change will not be noticed?

I personally also think that travel distance is a secondary issue - after all , one spends a lot of money and time for FFS - what is a bit longer flight or some more hotel costs in comparison...

[LADYL]

Dear Ladies/ Dear Clara,
I wouldn't have crossed Di Maggio out on my list, for  a simple reason. He has recently been chosen at Mt Sinai NY as a member, I would say star surgeon, and one of the reasons is the results he obtains on forehead remodelling. As far as I know, only 5 to 10 % of the cases are filled for prevention, but in my case, 90% of my frontal sinus keep functional and without being filled, this is not part of his routine.
Good luck. Kind regards.

[R R H]

My take on this is that Dr Rossi, Di Maggio and Bart van der Ven do varying degrees of forehead reconstruction from dramatic (the former) to often less invasive but no less risky (the latter).

I'm sure places like PAI in Thailand do that kind of work too if you really need it but my impression, based on my own observations and research, is that they're much more open and honest about what the patient actually needs rather than forcing unnecessary procedures on everyone.

[anjaq]

As I read it , Di Maggio was not off the list because of the sinus filling but for some other reason?
I think di Maggio does good work on the forehead, but when I look at pictures of his patients, Dr Spiegels patients and Facialteam patients, I see that it seems rather similar. In most cases they manage to smoothen out the forehead very well, fit the nose well to it - but all of them have some samples as well where they did not manage it so well, I have the impression it is mostly those faces that are having some very masculine features, so there are just limits to the technique, I suppose?

Regarding "unneccesary procedures" - In the end only oneself can determine that. If the goal is simply to "pass", some do not need any FFS or just forehead or some other part changed. But to make the face female in all aspects (for example in order to be able to see a female face in the mirror without anchor points to the previous maleness of it), maybe more procedures are needed.