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Will my friend be the same person after HRT?

Started by Jamie_06, June 22, 2016, 05:50:44 PM

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Jamie_06

I have a close friend who is transgender (mtf) and is about to begin transition. Personality-wise there are two versions of her: a facade that she has to put up in public of a standoffish male, and the version of her I have come to know that appears when she drops that facade, which is a tomboyish gamer girl who is very kind, has a pretty smile, and a quirky, sarcastic sense of humor.

The two of us met due to a strong shared interest in gaming, both tabletop and video gaming, and that's formed the basis for our lasting friendship. If anything, she's even a more hardcore gamer than I am. And interestingly enough, she has never really expressed much interest in stereotypically feminine things. She has always known she was trans since the beginning and has never tried to make herself "be a man" as it were.

I have always been encouraging her to go farther in transition because she is clearly uncomfortable with herself as she is; however, I recently ran across some information that absolutely terrified me. I have read several accounts of people's thought processes, perceptions, and senses changing during hormone therapy, as well as mention of personality traits and even interests shifting. One notable similarity seemed to be that trans women were claiming less interest in video games after starting HRT and more interest in "girly" things.

Two accounts were especially frightening. One was from a trans woman who had been off and on HRT at different times over the course of 20 years, and described her changes like this:

QuoteI used to kid my girlfriend about her cleaning habits. No matter where she was she always felt obligated to clean up. I've always at least cleaned up after myself but not to the point she does. Even if we're in a bar she'll take everything in front of us bring it up to the bar, ask for a rag and wipe up the place we were sitting in front of. She'd even do this kind of thing in other peoples homes. I'd explain that's what waitresses are paid for. Now after restarting hormones for a couple of months I find myself doing the same thing everywhere I go. Even others have noticed. My bartender recently pointed that out to me. I don't even think about it.

Another change is I've always been into video games. I'd spend hours at it. I even had a web site devoted too it. Suddenly I stopped and lost all intrest and closed the site and stopped playing. While I've never been a sports nut I always at least watched the major games especially when the local teams were playing. Now I'm not intrested at all. Out of the blue I developed an intrest in sewing. I used to throw out shirts with missing buttons and now I'm making myself an apron. Wow! Does this mean at the family holiday gatherings I'll automatically start washing dishes with the girls instead of watching football with the guys? I tend to think so. The wierd thing is my behavior is changing and I'm not even offically out of the closet yet, though that will be soon. Even the words I've used have changed all without even thinking about it. It makes me wonder who creates stereo-types. Is it really society or hormones? Fortunatley I don't mind these changes. In fact I embrace them.

The second was a really strange account from someone who had been on HRT for only 22 weeks and described the following:

QuoteMy preferences have changed, the kinds of music I like have changed, the kinds of television I watch has changed, the books I'm interested in reading and writing have changed, the type of person I want to be and see myself becoming has changed. There is little about me that is still the same as it was a year ago, and yet I am still me.
QuoteWhen we walk through the skyway after work we feel different than we used to. When we look in the mirror we feel different than we used to. When we see pictures of ourselves we feel different. When we are at work we think about different things. When we are around others we talk about different things. When we watch television at home we watch different things, and not just different shows but different genres of shows. When we read books we read different genres of books. When we surf the internet we like and share different things than we used to.

Everyone goes through this as they age, as it is a natural part of life, but our experience is beyond the simple passing of time. These are not simply the fading fancies of youth passing away from us as we mature into a full fledge adult, these are fundamental shifts in personality and perceptions.

HRT has made us a different person. True there are still hints of the person we used to be but the changed pieces are becoming the majority rather quickly. It's like we are an old car that has had the majority of its parts replaced with newly manufactured parts. On the exterior we may resemble the body we were before, but underneath the surface almost everything is different. The way that old car runs is different, the way that it rides on the road is different, the sounds it makes when it starts up is different, and the experience one has while driving it is different, yet it is the "same" car that it used to be.

Another list of experiences is discussed on this thread.

I find this very hard to believe; I was always under the impression that transition wouldn't change a person's personality and interests, just improve their emotional state and put them at peace with themselves. The core person would remain the same, maybe with some changes in emotions and possibly sexuality. Apparently there are also a few studies showing that brain patterns before and after HRT are different.

I'm now honestly really afraid of this. I had wanted her to be able to drop the facade completely and be more comfortable with expressing her true inner self publicly all the time. But yet these posts all suggest that she will instead switch over to a third, more "girly" version of herself over time. Being a gamer is such a big and important part of her identity that if she loses that she definitely wouldn't be herself anymore.

I'm confused. I had always maintained that trans people were fundamentally their target gender in terms of brain structure and HRT only removed dysphoria and allowed the body to match what was in the mind.

I have to ask because, while I would never want the quirky tomboy gamer girl I know to have to live as her old male self, I want her to stay the same quirky tomboy gamer girl I've always known and not have to become a twisted, super-feminine girly version of herself that bears little resemblance to the girl I know her to be. Point is, I just want to see her be herself, as I know her, and not end up erasing that identity with mind-altering hormones.

I have discussed this with her, and she has reassured me that the person I have known is the real her, and that she won't be any different other then being more comfortable, happier, and more confident, as well as potentially more emotional than before. She described that a lot of what people have said about shifting to more feminine interests are the result of finally having the freedom to be one's self rather than hiding previous ones, and that a lot of trans women also play video games less because they used them as an escape from depression and don't have to anymore. She's told me that she also won't have anything to prove by jumping into a bunch of girly interests after HRT, and that she'll always just continue to be herself. Yet there is also a trend of people being completely unprepared for changes made by hormones, and so I don't know whether what she said will ultimately be true in the end.

Are any of these fears founded in reality? Is the woman I knew going to be gone, replaced by someone else?
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Ms Grace

Some things will change, some things won't. A lot of it has to do with how much they are repressing. Hormones can play a part, especially if a person is sensitive to testosterone it may be driving parts of their attitude and behaviour, or restricting others. There's no doubt estrogen can change one's mood, especially depending on how it is administered. Usually changes are subtle and happen over time, but sometimes they can be sudden. Everyone is different, and the thing is, you won't know until you know so thee is zero point in worrying about it.

The bottom line though is that they will still be the same person. What I did find though is that the way people related to me changed, women who had been standoffish became close friends and guys who had been good friends became standoffish. Go figure.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Jamie_06

#2
This also goes well beyond just my friend. I've tried to be a supportive ally for quite some time after finally realizing how poisonous I had been in my old life as an Evangelical Christian, which had delayed my realization that I was bisexual until age 21. As such, I have tried to at least somewhat redeem myself by helping other LGBT people be themselves.

There is an attitude carried by many of my friends from those days that the person they saw as their son, for example, has died and been replaced by a woman they cannot accept as their daughter. I have tried to correct that attitude by telling people the person they know is still the same; they are just being more authentic.

And yet now, I'm wondering if some of that attitude isn't entirely false. It is true that the daughter in the example given is their daughter and a woman, and always has been. But when their daughter undergoes treatment that alters her personality to the extent mentioned above, is she still their daughter or has she effectively erased herself and been replaced with someone else?

I understand the accounts I mentioned are not typical, and most I have seen suggest exactly what I mentioned; the person is still the same, they just are free of dysphoria and all the negative baggage associated with it and don't have to repress themselves anymore. But the thought that there are even a small number of people who did completely change is making me worried nonetheless.
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Ms Grace

Well interests change through life regardless. So too can personality. I feel like the same person, some of my interests have moderated and I would say I'm happier and more social which has had an effect on how I express myself...but I think my core personality is still the same.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Jamie_06

OK, I think I know what's going on. Everyone whose personality actually seems to have shifted had been living as the opposite gender for a significant amount of time beforehand and repressing their underlying personality as a result. Transition for them involved having to take apart their old identity and build a new one, resulting in a lot of adjustments being made. My friend, though she does have a fake male identity she uses when necessary, has a clearly established female identity already and always did; she just was prevented from expressing it by uncaring family.

So I don't believe there's anything to worry about.
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Mariah

You have nothing to worry about. Yes interests can change. My dislike for violence especially watching it in a movie for example has only increased but that was the case before hormones. It was just a result of letting the authentic me free. Hugs
Mariah
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask me.
[email]mariahsusans.orgstaff@yahoo.com[/email]
I am also spouse of a transgender person.
Retired News Administrator
Retired (S) Global Moderator
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warlockmaker

Thinking back I  never realized I was Trans and when I did the floodgates opened and my final goals was never in doubt.  So as an Alpha male I realized that I pursued impassioned pursuits to the extreme. These pursuits were what I thought defined a true male. I was admired by my male peers,  and being gregarious I had lots of them. Some very close childhood friends were shattered when I told them. They became depressed and thought our lifelong friendship would end. They questioned their willingness to accept me as a close female friend. My perception on life had changed. I no longer was that highly driven alpha male that was a competitor without peer and agressive. I honestly did not think like them....I had very contrasting views on family and politics. These views exhibited the new found empathy which I saw as a good thing.

I asked myself what was it that made them my friend...was it my created image of an Alpha male or was it my inner soul. I have changed and all for the better...I have peace in life. It's up to them to understand and for me to give them all the reenforcement and knowledge to help them grow as a human being.

My score card with my closest friends runs 50/50. Some have embraced the new me other have abandoned me. Funny my so so friends are much more accepting.

I hope you are in the continued friend category.
When we first start our journey the perception and moral values all dramatically change in wonderment. As we evolve further it all becomes normal again but the journey has changed us forever.

SRS January 21st,  2558 (Buddhist calander), 2015
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EmilyMK03

I think I can offer some perspective as a hardcore gamer myself.  I used to play a TON of video games... the Xbox, PS2, GameCube, PS3, Xbox 360, and PS4 still hooked up to my home theater system are a testament to my gaming history.  :)  Years ago, I spent thousands of dollars on a really nice 3D TV and several more thousand dollars on an amazing surround sound system just so I could enjoy my video games in a totally immersive experience.  I also have a home theater PC hooked up to my TV so I can play PC games in 3D.  Oh, and I also have a separate gaming rig for the more serious games that I play on my desktop PC (which I built myself, of course!).  I enjoyed playing all sorts of games and rarely missed playing any of the AAA titles in any given year.  I also probably logged several thousand hours in World of Warcraft... my main character has more than 400 /days played, not to mention the other 11 alts at lvl 100...

I met a really good friend during my college days.  We lived in the same dorm and quickly became friends due to a shared love of video games.  We both ended up living in the Chicago metro area after college, and we've been hanging out regularly both in-person and online, gaming together for more than 20 years.

When I came out as transgender, he was the first person I told.  And he's been very supportive ever since!  We still hang out often!

Now, being as I'm transitioning, on HRT for 5 months, and living as a woman full-time, I realize now that my interests have changed slightly, but not dramatically.  I still enjoy video games, but I prefer cooperative games a lot more than competitive games.  Mostly though, it's just that I don't have as much time to play games.  My daily beauty routine takes a lot of time! (not just makeup, but tweezing eyebrows, cleansing & exfoliating my face, stuff like that).  And I spend a lot more of my free time trying to learn and keep up with typical feminine things, such as makeup and fashion, because I want to blend in to society as much as possible.

So again, it's not that my interests have changed, it's more like my priorities have shifted.  I still enjoy playing games, but I don't have as much time for them anymore.  And to be perfectly honest I suppose I also don't find them quite as fun as I did... it's a lot harder for me to get excited about playing.  But usually once I do get started, I still have a ton of fun!

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EmilyMK03

Quote from: Jamie_06 on June 22, 2016, 11:13:52 PM
OK, I think I know what's going on. Everyone whose personality actually seems to have shifted had been living as the opposite gender for a significant amount of time beforehand and repressing their underlying personality as a result. Transition for them involved having to take apart their old identity and build a new one, resulting in a lot of adjustments being made. My friend, though she does have a fake male identity she uses when necessary, has a clearly established female identity already and always did; she just was prevented from expressing it by uncaring family.

So I don't believe there's anything to worry about.

I think there's a lot of truth to what you said.  Although I lived as my opposite gender for more than 30 years, I never took on a strong masculine personality.  I stayed away from the macho alpha guys and befriended the quieter guys.  I stayed single and never married, so I never needed to assert a male role in a relationship.  At the office, I always valued cooperation over climbing the ladder.  And I always made friends with more women than men - women who said I was very empathetic with them and could "get" what they were feeling.  And I think all that may be why my personality hasn't changed that much in my transition.  I've always allowed myself to be me, for the most part, even as a guy.  I just never put all the pieces together and realized I was transgender until much later in life, lol.
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Jamie_06

Thank you for all the helpful responses. I realize now that there's nothing to worry about.

Well, except that my friend has probably seen me worrying and debating this issue on another forum by now, but that's neither here nor there.
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