Disappointing God?

[Deborah]

I've just had too many experiences in my life that would tend towards some sort of divine intervention or guidance to stop believing entirely. 

Many Atheist claim that any belief at all is a violation of intellect.  To deny things I have personally experienced seems to me to be just as much a violation of intellect. 

One example happened when I lived in Alaska.  One winter we were having particularly bad weather.  The temperature had dropped to around -40 and an extremely thick ice fog had descended across the entire land.  An ice fog is thick and impenetrable.  Visibility is actually limited to just a few feet and all sound is muffled.

Anyway, I was in the Army and we had to be out driving around.  My vehicle at the time was being driven by another and I was in the right front seat.  We were on a well known dirt road but going very slowly because we couldn't see anything and this was before GPS existed.  There was a  railroad crossing  marked with a stop sign that we always stopped at to look both ways before crossing.  But this time the fog was so thick we did not see either the stop sign or the railroad tracks.  I guessed where we were because as we were crossing I could feel the tracks under the vehicle tires.  An instant after we crossed the tracks I glanced in my right side rear view mirror and a speeding train was there.  Not just the front of the engine but the full broadside of a train.  Our rear tires had cleared the tracks less than a second before.

My immediate thought was that an Angel or some power had passed us through the moving train.  Or maybe we just missed being hit by a micron.  Either way, the thought was unshakable.  Other things like this have happened to me throughout my life although most were less dramatic, like the time I had the bright idea to bodysurf in the aftermath of an Atlantic hurricane.  It was as if some power wasn't going to let me die no matter how stupid I was, or on occasion, how much I wanted to.

So, I ask myself why me.  And the only answer I can come up with is that I have no idea why.  It just is.  If God handed out grace based on merits I would likely fail, no, I am sure I would fail.  If it was based on strength and consistency of faith I would probably fail there too.  If it was based on proclaiming some specific dogma I know I would fail.  So while it just is, it remains a mystery to me.

[Lady Sarah]

I've had my experiences with what seemed to be miracles as well.

My blue eyes are ultrasensitive to bright light, and when I was 19, my sunglasses broke. I prayed for new sunglasses. The next day, I found 4 of them. I kept the one that best fit my needs, and gave the other 3 to some homeless people I knew.

When I lived out in the California mountains, my only transportation was a Honda CB750 motorcycle. I found out it's top speed was 125. My ex's bike could do 165. The roads to Placerville had a cliff up one side, and down the other, with sharp turns. Nothing stopped me from being stupid, but something stopped me from crashing or flying into trees (depending on which way I might have made an error).

While living in the mountains, I would regularly walk a trail to the top of the mountain I lived on. One day, I met a rather large brown bear (grizzly?). It stood up and roared at me. I listened to a little voice that told me "what would a mountain lion do?". So, I screamed at the bear, with the same sound as a ticked off mountain lion. At that point, the bear veered left, and ran full speed uphill, leaving traces of hair in tree bark.

I have no doubt about the existence of God.

[Cin]

I have so many experiences myself. Mostly God introducing me to the right people at the right time. Incredible coincidences.

[SarahMarie1987]

I tried to stop believing too and while I had all the right words and thoughts, and I learned all the anti- God arguments, my heart really wasn't behind the whole thing.  It was really based more on a deep anger than any intellect and I then tried to use the intellect to justify the anger.

Thanks to Del I came to realize the anger wasn't really with God but rather with institutional Christianity.  So with his help I was able to get over it.

My faith is back although I think it has changed somewhat.  Before, it was pretty rigid to align with established theology.  Now I feel free to contemplate God independently.  I still use the theology as a framework but no longer feel obligated to strictly believe any specific dogma simply because it was handed down  from an ancient, or modern, committee.

Deborah,

I grew up with similar rules and rigidity. I think my turn away from God during my teens and twenties was a rejection of those rules. And also the fact I was hurt and upset and made at God. A lot of "Why didn't you make me a girl?" "I'll be so good and right, if you just let me wake up as a girl for one day." Things of that nature.

I do agree with Del that a lot of the problems in the church can come from an image that they project to other people.

Sarah

[Jacqueline]

Sarah,

I am glad to hear you are in a better place. I am sorry to have missed this thread earlier. Although it felt a little like it was wrenched out of your question and shifted to what might make a very interesting debate on another.

I too have the feelings you described, although I grew up in a North Eastern Presbyterian tradition. I think it is part of why it took me so long to come to grips with being transgender. I thought If I just faked it, and held my faith, those thoughts and impulses would go away.  Nope, not in my case.

It is a tough subject to grapple with. My stock response tends to be religions are formed by people and people have faults...

Hope you have a great rest of your week.

Warmly,
Joanna

[SarahMarie1987]

Sarah,

I am glad to hear you are in a better place. I am sorry to have missed this thread earlier. Although it felt a little like it was wrenched out of your question and shifted to what might make a very interesting debate on another.

I too have the feelings you described, although I grew up in a North Eastern Presbyterian tradition. I think it is part of why it took me so long to come to grips with being transgender. I thought If I just faked it, and held my faith, those thoughts and impulses would go away.  Nope, not in my case.

It is a tough subject to grapple with. My stock response tends to be religions are formed by people and people have faults...

Hope you have a great rest of your week.

Warmly,
Joanna

Joanna,

Thanks for you response!

Yes, I think the thread went a little sideways. But it has been interesting.

I've often wondered if "faking it" would help me. Not recently, but in the past. Growing up it was pretty much just assuming the guise of being male and what that meant in the religion I was raised in. Like if I faked it would I have ever really been happy?

I don't know honestly. I know I am happy today. But I also know that I will be sad later on in the week. That being said, I have better ways of understand and coping with my unhappiness than I did growing up. Even if they are days where I feel all I do is disappoint God.

Thanks for listening.

Love, Sarah

[Anne Blake]

Hello Sarah, It seems that you really know how to set off a strong discussion thread. It appears to have taken many interesting turns and twists. Please, if I may, let me offer a bit of a different take on your quandary.

I am new to the transgender world, just 1.5 years into the wonderful experience. I am also a devout believer in Christ. I avoided much of the "church" inputs of growing up in a church by coming to belief about 30 years ago in my mid thirties. My wife and I have served in our church and in various forms of the "Mission Field" for many years so have of course experienced many trials and wrestling matches in our relationship with God. I really like you using the term relationship with God rather than just church membership for I believe that it is fundamentally key. You say that you are wrestling with pleasing or displeasing God concerning your transgender pursuits (I use that term in no disrespectful way, I just don't have a better term at hand). My wife and I wrestled with this at considerable length when transgender and some form of transitioning entered our lives last year. We searched scriptures and spent a lot of time in prayer searching for God's position in all of this. Then I realized that this was the exact same soul searching that I had been doing for 30 years about so many different topics, grace vs works being one of the primary ones. There were all sorts of scriptures to search and all kinds of good directions/advice from well intending friends but the only true guidance that mattered was God's. A very pious monk named brother Lawrence long ago wrote of his relationship with God. A heavily paraphrased discussion goes something like this. God is all powerful, capable and loving. Our responsibility is to seek God's will and follow it. God promises to guide us and correct us when we stray from his intended path. Put more simply, we ask God where we need to go and then begin the journey the way we understand his intentions to be. If God sees us straying he promises to let us know and guide us back to his path, simple as that. 

When my wife and I began life with Anne, we sought him out. We searched scriptures and prayed for his directions. Our primary prayer was that if this was his will, we desire him to bless our efforts, if not, for him to shut the door. We have used this approach throughout our spiritual journey with God for the past thirty plus years and he has proven himself trustworthy in either blessing or closing the door definitively.

Life and our transition has been full of many ups and downs. Our relationships with many of our church friends and our pastor has not been easy. But worrying about pleasing or displeasing our God has not been an issue and we continue to trust that He has both the desire and capability of keeping us exactly where he wants us.

We will pray that you also will be able to find God's peace on this issue.
Anne

[Lady Sarah]

When I stopped praying to be made a girl, and instead, prayed for guidance, it became apparent to my best friend and I that transitioning would be the correct direction for my life. He later became my first finance.

The only thing that drove me away from attending church, was those that played "judge", without even understanding the scriptures.

[Virginia Hall]

Did it ever occur to anyone that we might be "disappointing" God by not transitioning? Is it possible He put us on this Earth to do exactly that? Transition. Is it possible this will please Him?

[becky.rw]

Did it ever occur to anyone that we might be "disappointing" God by not transitioning? Is it possible He put us on this Earth to do exactly that? Transition. Is it possible this will please Him?

Nah, but I think he'd be disappointed if we spent time asking God to heal us, but then refusing to undergo the available treatment for the problem.

The cancer thing isn't a bad parallel; there is no offense in asking God for a cure; but there are treatments, many of which are very successful if unpleasant.  How can someone expect God to do, what one is unwilling to do for themselves?    Now, after cancer, there are often scars; and I don't think God would feel disappointed or not based upon what degree of visual reconstruction that person chooses to undergo.

So; I undergo HRT, and the base problem is cured; but whether or not I remove the beard or adjust body parts to be more appropriate for my mental image of self, is entirely for my own benefit or comfort; God will not judge me more harshly if I die with a beard, vs whether I die with a perfected, feminine face.

And to the: "As a cisgender I do believe that transgender people can be changed"; definitely so.  HRT changes a lot!
radical cis folks don't seem to get that this is a chemistry problem, not a behavioral problem.   If if one were to mercilessly beat the trans person into silence and obedience, they would still be trans.

[Kylo]

Sometimes I feel like I am a disappointment to God. Or that I will be a disappointment to Him in some way. A lot of these feelings have to due with how I was raised religiously. I was raised Southern Baptist. This particular church put a lot emphasis on how "good" you had to be in order to please God. So it was a lot of pressure to be "perfect" and "good" as a kid.

Also I am adopted. But I have this intense feeling of not being wanted and being unloved. I was so consumed with being "good" and "perfect" in all aspects of my life, including my religious growth. I also buried my being as a trans woman and all of the feelings as a kid because I felt that would ultimately disappoint God as I learned and was taught.

I realize now that kind of religion was wrong. In fact, it was really hurtful for me developing a loving relationship with God. However, those teachings still run really deep in me. It is hard to not think that going forward in my transition journey and in my life that I will keep disappointing Him. I know rationally that is wrong to think that way. Because God made me transgender for His reasons. But I still feel like I would be disappointing Him.

Any advice or discussion would be very helpful and welcome. Thank you!

Love,
Sarah

I think it's harmful what some religious denominations believe and teach kids. My father's family is Catholic, and he was a Catholic for a while, and he tried to impress some of that stuff onto me as a kid and honestly none of it seemed very positive or healthy. Then I later found out his mother psychologically abused him as a child with stories about how she thought Satan was in him or he had a black spot on his soul for any bad things he may or may not have done and how he was constantly disappointing god. Eventually he came around to losing his faith completely. I guess the stress of it was too much to justify.

If you put too much pressure on someone to be perfect, I think this is what tends to happen. None of us are perfect and if there's a god I'm pretty sure he knows this.

[SarahMarie1987]

Howdy everyone!

Sorry for delaying answering in this thread. I have been busy with some things. Have done a lot of internal work. And I am pretty proud of the work I have accomplished.

I have not begun to transition yet. But the work I have done I think is vitally important for me prior to transitioning.

I have done a lot of work learning how to love myself. And find myself more fully in God and how I treat myself and other people.

I have been feeling more and more like myself. Like Sarah. And it is really wonderful.

[Jacqueline]

That's great Sarah, with an h(some call the unpronounced h in names, "the breath of God").

There is no one holding a watch shaking their head. You take the time you need. However, if you recognize you need a boot, just let us know...

With warmth,

Joanna

[Nina_Ottawa]

My faith grew stronger as I transitioned. When I transitioned at my church, my pastor found a great verse from the Bible. She used the NIV version, I prefer the New Living Translation. Psalm 139 13-14
13You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body
and knit me together in my mother's womb.
14Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex!
Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.

Another quote I like is Gen 1-13-
God saw all that he made, and it was good.

Don't for a second think God doesn't love you.

I tell people that life is a balance between blessings and burdens. Some people have more blessings than burdens while others have more burdens.
Being transgender should never be viewed as a burden. You cannot blame God. God does not tempt us, but he will test us.
I believe God made us this way to see how we'd overcome and embrace it.
It's what makes us unique.

[SarahMarie1987]

My faith grew stronger as I transitioned. When I transitioned at my church, my pastor found a great verse from the Bible. She used the NIV version, I prefer the New Living Translation. Psalm 139 13-14
13You made all the delicate, inner parts of my body
and knit me together in my mother's womb.
14Thank you for making me so wonderfully complex!
Your workmanship is marvelous—how well I know it.

Another quote I like is Gen 1-13-
God saw all that he made, and it was good.

Don't for a second think God doesn't love you.

I tell people that life is a balance between blessings and burdens. Some people have more blessings than burdens while others have more burdens.
Being transgender should never be viewed as a burden. You cannot blame God. God does not tempt us, but he will test us.
I believe God made us this way to see how we'd overcome and embrace it.
It's what makes us unique.

Those verses are amazing! Thank you for sharing them with me.

[SarahMarie1987]

That's great Sarah, with an h(some call the unpronounced h in names, "the breath of God").

There is no one holding a watch shaking their head. You take the time you need. However, if you recognize you need a boot, just let us know...

With warmth,

Joanna

Joanna,

Thank you! Very much!