Do I Look, or Could I Pass as, Female? 6.0

[Drexy/Drex]

Outside on the deck...what do you all think.


Rachael

Yes  seriously sis you look cis !!

[EmilyMK03]

I...Jeez.  Ouch.  I have huge fears that I'll never be able to pass, so I kind of was hoping for, not yet, but you've got potential.  I haven't had that yet, and I'm beginning to suspect I never will.  I read this a week ago and it was enough to make me stop the hormones.  I guess I'm in limbo.  Damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Karlie Ann, I'm sorry you were hurt by my comments.  But in my opinion, it is better to be told "you do not pass" on an internet forum than to find out the hard way in real-life, possibly getting clocked, shouted at, and publicly ridiculed by a group of insensitive teenagers.

As for "potential", that doesn't really mean anything at all.  There's no way to quantify "potential".  We all react differently to HRT and at different rates.  There is no way to predict how HRT will change a person's face and how much it will make someone passable.  Now, will HRT make someone look more feminine?  Sure.  But to what extent?  The answer is nobody knows.  It is all just speculation until it happens.  I never tell people that they have "potential" because IMO it's disingenuous.

I have a trans friend who started living full-time before starting laser, or electrolysis, or even HRT.  Her facial hair stubble was visible from a mile away because she has black hair and light skin.  She didn't pass at all.  In fact, her passability was FAR worse than yours currently is.  But her dysphoria had gotten so bad that it didn't matter whether she passed or not.  She had to transition and she had to live full-time.  Has it been hard for her?  Absolutely!  But her inner beauty shone through, and she persevered, and she's made many friends since, including plenty of trans friends and many cis female friends too - even at work!

If you truly need to transition you will do it regardless of comments made by a mean person like me on the internet.  You'll transition regardless of your passability, your facial hair, your age, your height, your facial bone structure, your family, your finances, or anything else.  You won't let anything stop you.  If you're not at that point, then maybe stopping hormones is the right decision, and a visit to your gender therapist to talk these things through is in order.

[roseyfox]

just got a new shirt :3

[SoraKat]

still cant afford laser yet *rage* but this was last week

[Sinclair]

just got a new shirt :3

Nice pic .. love the curly hair.

[Stephenie S]

still cant afford laser yet *rage* but this was last week

If your funds are limited then invest them on something that is more certain than laser...it's called electrolysis.

[Stephenie S]

Karlie Ann, I'm sorry you were hurt by my comments.  But in my opinion, it is better to be told "you do not pass" on an internet forum than to find out the hard way in real-life, possibly getting clocked, shouted at, and publicly ridiculed by a group of insensitive teenagers.

As for "potential", that doesn't really mean anything at all.  There's no way to quantify "potential".  We all react differently to HRT and at different rates.  There is no way to predict how HRT will change a person's face and how much it will make someone passable.  Now, will HRT make someone look more feminine?  Sure.  But to what extent?  The answer is nobody knows.  It is all just speculation until it happens.  I never tell people that they have "potential" because IMO it's disingenuous.

I have a trans friend who started living full-time before starting laser, or electrolysis, or even HRT.  Her facial hair stubble was visible from a mile away because she has black hair and light skin.  She didn't pass at all.  In fact, her passability was FAR worse than yours currently is.  But her dysphoria had gotten so bad that it didn't matter whether she passed or not.  She had to transition and she had to live full-time.  Has it been hard for her?  Absolutely!  But her inner beauty shone through, and she persevered, and she's made many friends since, including plenty of trans friends and many cis female friends too - even at work!

If you truly need to transition you will do it regardless of comments made by a mean person like me on the internet.  You'll transition regardless of your passability, your facial hair, your age, your height, your facial bone structure, your family, your finances, or anything else.  You won't let anything stop you.  If you're not at that point, then maybe stopping hormones is the right decision, and a visit to your gender therapist to talk these things through is in order.

I really admire this kind of straight forward honesty and intelligence.
Presentation in public as female started for me before I had done much of anything except useless laser hair removal.
Full time after 6 months on hormones.
As you say, sometimes we just want to live life in our chosen gender asap.
I got tired of the double life very quickly and was sick of presenting as male, even though I still looked rather male at 6 months.

[barbie]

Oh, "too tall" is such BS. I know cis women who are 6ft+. Hell, to be a model you HAVE to be that tall! I swear, cis people, if they know someone is trans, focus on miniscule things that fit plenty of cis women but they have to come up with *some* kind of "tell". Ugh.

Which is to say, you are definitely not too tall, and I'd personally never guess that you were trans based on these photos. You look like a stunning, fit, middle-aged woman. <3

Thanks, Vervain.
Just returning from a 3-day trip to the mainland.

My height alone caused a lot of attention, but passing is not a serious issue to me. People pay attention me, and sometimes it is not so bad. There is a restaurant in the airport, and female workers there all remember me, saying hi to me, even I have never introduced myself to them. They even know my family.... But they treat me far more nicely than other ordinary guests.



Usually people pay attention to female flight attendants in uniform, but it is the opposite in my case. Some of them also remember me, and say hello to me.

I look tall with high heels. My friend next to me is 5 feet 10 inch (178 cm) high.



Passing is meaningless when I meet my friends, colleagues and students.



I just try to look nice (and of course beautiful) regardless of my gender.
My new Facebook profile photo taken today.



Cheers!

barbie~~

[Ataraxia]

I...Jeez.  Ouch.  I have huge fears that I'll never be able to pass, so I kind of was hoping for, not yet, but you've got potential.  I haven't had that yet, and I'm beginning to suspect I never will.  I read this a week ago and it was enough to make me stop the hormones.  I guess I'm in limbo.  Damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Don't ever ever ever let anyone or anything get you down, and don't ever think you can't do it. You absolutely can. You have to keep in mind that you'll never get a fully realistic idea of whether or not you pass here. Here, you're starting from the premise that "I'm transgender, do you see anything about me that could give that away?" So you'll often get feedback that's simply a listing of the features you have that the person giving the feedback views as masculine. There's other factors that go into it as well, like how said features go along with the rest of your face. One or two masculine features isn't necessarily enough to keep you from "passing", and if it were then lots of cisgender females wouldn't "pass". Realistically, out in the streets, people are going to go with wehat their overall impression and built-in "cues" that they're not fully aware that they're using, and thereit's almost impossible to give an objective analysis of how those will be invoked, especially when starting with the knowledge that you're trans.

Really, I believe the only way to get a realistic perspective on whether or not you "pass" is to go out and see for yourself. If you get gendered female more often than not, then you pass. If you do get read sometimes, it may be frustrating, but really it isn't the end of the world and it certainly doesn't take away from the fact that you're a woman. "passing" and such aside, you're a woman and no one will ever be able to take that away from you.

*hugs*

[Karlie Ann]

I was bullied a lot as a kid.  As an adult, I'm pretty accepted by people and even liked.  The idea of getting bullied again, yes, it terrifies me.  It's a question of whether or not, thanks to my past, I can handle being bullied as a man trying to pass as a woman without falling apart.  I've read comment sections on conservative blogs.  I know what they think of us. Obviously, my ability to pass is a top concern for me, and yes, I struggle EVERY DAY with the fear of whether or not I can transition and pass enough to fly under the radar of people like that.  Especially because, Ilive in the middle of a major city that has a lot of people like that.

That said....

Neither you nor anyone else has the right to tell me whether or not I should transition.  Thanks for your opinion, but if I'm hurt by it I think I should be able to say so.  That doesn't mean I think you're mean, or that you're a bad person.  It just means that the criticism stung.  After all, being open with our feelings IS a feminine trait, isn't it?

[Karlie Ann]

Also, Thanks to Dena, MeghanMe, and Ataraxia, who were kind enough to be encouraging without sugar-coating or ->-bleeped-<- or whatever the term is.

[Dena]

I was bullied a lot as a kid.  As an adult, I'm pretty accepted by people and even liked.  The idea of getting bullied again, yes, it terrifies me.  It's a question of whether or not, thanks to my past, I can handle being bullied as a man trying to pass as a woman without falling apart.  I've read comment sections on conservative blogs.  I know what they think of us. Obviously, my ability to pass is a top concern for me, and yes, I struggle EVERY DAY with the fear of whether or not I can transition and pass enough to fly under the radar of people like that.  Especially because, Ilive in the middle of a major city that has a lot of people like that.

That said....

Neither you nor anyone else has the right to tell me whether or not I should transition.  Thanks for your opinion, but if I'm hurt by it I think I should be able to say so.  That doesn't mean I think you're mean, or that you're a bad person.  It just means that the criticism stung.  After all, being open with our feelings IS a feminine trait, isn't it?

I have never been bullied when in public. Normally adults are to polite or to wrapped up in their own problems to give you a hard time. The conservatives that you read about are a small vocal part of the conservative movement. You will find they are quite brave when they have a keyboard in their hands but if you were to meet one in public, they would be a coward. I am a conservative and have spent weeks with thousands of them while vending. Other than an occasional mis gender, I didn't have a single problem. They were more than willing to take my advice and hand me money for merchandise. They had other vendors available that sold many of the things we did but still they bought from us.

[barbie]

Don't ever ever ever let anyone or anything get you down, and don't ever think you can't do it. You absolutely can. You have to keep in mind that you'll never get a fully realistic idea of whether or not you pass here. Here, you're starting from the premise that "I'm transgender, do you see anything about me that could give that away?" So you'll often get feedback that's simply a listing of the features you have that the person giving the feedback views as masculine. There's other factors that go into it as well, like how said features go along with the rest of your face. One or two masculine features isn't necessarily enough to keep you from "passing", and if it were then lots of cisgender females wouldn't "pass". Realistically, out in the streets, people are going to go with wehat their overall impression and built-in "cues" that they're not fully aware that they're using, and thereit's almost impossible to give an objective analysis of how those will be invoked, especially when starting with the knowledge that you're trans.

Really, I believe the only way to get a realistic perspective on whether or not you "pass" is to go out and see for yourself. If you get gendered female more often than not, then you pass. If you do get read sometimes, it may be frustrating, but really it isn't the end of the world and it certainly doesn't take away from the fact that you're a woman. "passing" and such aside, you're a woman and no one will ever be able to take that away from you.

*hugs*

Yes. I totally agree.

The idea that you can evaluate whether you can pass in public based on the 2-dimensional snapshots of a part of your face or body is misleading. Yes. To some degree, it is possible and helpful. Of course, it is interesting and can be entertaining. But, do not take it seriously.

No m2f transgeder person can 100% pass. Of course, you can pass for some time and for some people. But the reality is that you are not a genetic female. We just try to overcome it, not to change the reality. I just accept and acknowledge that I am just between a man and a woman. Nowadays I always use women's bathroom and fix my makeup in front of the mirror with other women. All strangers call me as Miss (agassi in Korean). But this does not mean that I pass 100%.

You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.

Abraham Lincoln

There are many factors in passing. The location, the time, and the people you are interacting with. And your job, career, friends, social position, body gesture, culture and etc. Do not expect that you can pass universally.

To me, passing is not so much critical, but I guess passing can be very important to other people here for various reasons. My goal (albeit vain) is not to pass, but to look tasteful (and hopefully beautiful). And the bottom line is that I am always honest when asked about my gender identity.

barbie~~

[EmilyMK03]

http://i.imgur.com/rVrTmqn.jpg just got a new shirt :3

Roseyfox, I think you pass in this photo.  That's a cute Rainbow Dash pony shirt. 

still cant afford laser yet *rage* but this was last week

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v510/flexibob/androfb2_zpsv3kje4p0.jpg

SoraKat, I don't really know what to make of this photo.  You don't really look male, but you don't look definitively female either.  I think if a stranger came across you in public, they'd have difficulty gendering you and would resort to other cues to determine your gender (I am ignoring your facial hair for now, which as you know gets you instantly gendered as male).

[Sarah leah]

I will post in 8 months as I only started hrt 7 days ago

My height alone caused a lot of attention...

barbie~~

It is not so much the height but the way you present that makes you standout. I consider it the classic over 50s fetish look that the stereotypical cross dressers of the 1990s wore. Perhaps I am blunt. Although I am not alone in thinking it, I am just more matter of fact.

just got a new shirt :3

You look great do not stress

[barbie]

It is not so much the height but the way you present that makes you standout. I consider it the classic over 50s fetish look that the stereotypical cross dressers of the 1990s wore. Perhaps I am blunt. Although I am not alone in thinking it, I am just more matter of fact.

Oh. Thanks for the honest comment. No. I do not think you are blunt at all. I am sure you have never been in Japan, China or Korea. Fashion is a kind of cultural thing, which differs by region and of course by time.

Cheers!

barbie~~

[EmilyMK03]

Yea, it may seem weird if you're not familiar with Asian society...  but in Korea (where Barbie lives, and where I was born) it's quite acceptable for women to dress like that in everyday life.  It's thought of as fashionable, not slutty or fetish.

Check out this YouTube video by English teachers living in Korea who are talking about some of the differences (this link will take you to the 5:36 mark where they specifically talk about skirts and skirt length in Korea, and how it's perceived differently compared to western culture).

As you can see, "passing" means different things in different cultures. 

[barbie]

Check out this YouTube video by English teachers living in Korea who are talking about some of the differences (this link will take you to the 5:36 mark where they specifically talk about skirts and skirt length in Korea, and how it's perceived differently compared to western culture).

Oh. Thanks for the youtube link.

Even in the US or other western countries, there are huge differences in fashion between big cities and rural areas.
For example, when I visited a rural area (southern Maryland) a few months ago, I had never seen any single woman wearing skirt during my 7 day stay, not to mention high heels. Most people there wear like those photos at http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/ .
But, at the National mall of DC, I saw a lot of young women wearing miniskirt and >4 inch high heels.

I guess the population density does matter in fashion. Women living in a populated area do care about their fashion. Young women in New York downtown areas or Paris are as much fashionable as those in Seoul, or even more.

Yes. I try to wear appropriately in the standard of the area I visit. For example, in the DC area, I wore like this:



But, I regretted it, as I saw a lot of young women wearing miniskirt.

barbie~~

[Rhonda Lynn]

I...Jeez.  Ouch.  I have huge fears that I'll never be able to pass, so I kind of was hoping for, not yet, but you've got potential.  I haven't had that yet, and I'm beginning to suspect I never will.  I read this a week ago and it was enough to make me stop the hormones.  I guess I'm in limbo.  Damned if I do and damned if I don't.

Karlie Ann, I'm sorry that you're in a difficult place right now. Passing is hard and in many ways it is only the first step of many steps in living successfully as a woman. If anyone told you that this path was easy, they either lied to you or didn't know what they were talking about.

I believe that honest opinions like Emily's are the best thing for this thread even though they can be hard to hear.  What you decide to do with her honest and fair opinion is up to you.

[Rhonda Lynn]

If you truly need to transition you will do it regardless of comments made by a mean person like me on the internet.  You'll transition regardless of your passability, your facial hair, your age, your height, your facial bone structure, your family, your finances, or anything else.  You won't let anything stop you.  If you're not at that point, then maybe stopping hormones is the right decision, and a visit to your gender therapist to talk these things through is in order.

Well said my friend.