Transphobia from an unexpected place

[Gertrude]

Not sure if this is the right forum or explanation of topic, but here goes. I had joined a local LGBT org the pink pistols. This isn't a pro or anti firearm discussion...BUT, what I did come across is an anti-trans discussion. On one of the social media venues, some people that joined and identified as gay complained that there weren't many gay people there. I engaged these people online and offline and what is distressing is that they don't want the T in LGBT and they seem to know who belongs and who doesn't, like you can tell by reading someone's profile or even picture. One guy said Gaydar, duh! I am almost flabbergasted. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but how representative is this attitude in the gay community? It's the first time I've experienced this and I wonder what the deal is. We don't need more divisiveness.

[RobynD]

The yucky parts of human nature enter into every community, no exceptions. I've come to expect it. Some people like divisiveness because they think it elevates them in some way. This is why so many males defend male privilege for instance and why cognitive dissonance occurs to people who are confronted with modern concepts of equality and inclusiveness.

[Devlyn]

  This subject can be touchy. Before anyone gets themselves in trouble, remember that this is an inclusive LGBT site. In particular:

10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:

    Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term. The same restriction applies to advocating the removal of the T from GLBT.

    Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others

    Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive no matter the provocation.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread. 

Hugs, Devlyn

[Michelle_P]

Gay, lesbian, bi, or straight, people who are secure in their own gender identity and presentation all have a great deal of trouble being empathetic with folks in the transgender community. It can be hard for someone to understand how someone can question their own gender identity.

It can be even harder for people who are secure in their gender identity and are attracted only to those with the same identity to understand why anyone would question their gender identity, and want to alter their presentation and bodies to match a different identity than what they were assigned at birth. 

The absolute worst treatment I've ever gotten in a retail establishment was from a person who identified, presented, and claimed to be attracted to male gender.  I was looking for assistance in cosmetics, and he was the one the supervisor sent over to assist me.  I got a constant stream of snark, and obviously bad advice.  No, I do lot think blue glitter eyeshadow is a good daytime look for me.   He didn't know me, but from the snark, he didn't appear to care for transgender folks at all.  That sort of thing doesn't reflect well on others in his own niche.

Being a member of one group in a sex-linked minority doesn't automatically make someone sympathetic to other minority factions.  Jerkdom knows no bounds.

[Tysilio]

The thing about Pink Pistols is that since its members are interested in guns, many of them will have the same views on political and social issues as gun-rights people in general, and most (although by no means all) people who support gun rights are pretty conservative. It's not surprising to me that a conservative of any sexual orientation would have a hard time accepting trans people, although it's not a given. Perhaps that's what you're running into, although this is just a guess.   

[warlockmaker]

I have read and watched TV interviews and we as the T are late comers and we are fortunate the the LGB community embraced us to form the T. This provided both sides with a larger platform...In reality the LGB movement is about sexual oriental and not gender ....we are about gender. This animosity is limited to a few and humans will always have hate...look at our community and the very hateful comments that are made against each other...for example Caitlyn Jenner...let's all be aware that there are a minority who feel insecure and try and reason with them.

[sparrow]

Meh.  I've experienced transphobia directed at me by transgender folk and misogyny from women.  Why hold outsiders to a higher standard?  The problem is entrenched in our culture.

[big kim]

So don't go there again. Problem solved

[Ashey]

I have certainly heard both misogyny and transphobia come from a transwoman before so it's no surprise you'll find it in the community at large. Not singling out lesbians here, but going from my personal experience and the experiences of others that I know, quite a few lesbians are transphobic. But then many reject bisexuals as well. Of course that's not all lesbians by a long shot, but there definitely isn't the solidarity throughout the LGBT community that one might expect or hope for.

[Gertrude]

This subject can be touchy. Before anyone gets themselves in trouble, remember that this is an inclusive LGBT site. In particular:

10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:

    Advocating the separation or exclusion of one or more group from under the Transgender umbrella term. The same restriction applies to advocating the removal of the T from GLBT.

    Suggesting or claiming that one segment or sub-segment of our community is more or less legitimate, deserving, or real than any others

    Posting any messages that engages in personal attacks and/or is actively or passively aggressive no matter the provocation.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread. 

Hugs, Devlyn

I don't want divisiveness at all, just want to know if what I experienced was an anomaly and why it exists. I thought we were all in the same boat. May be it's just a few and that's fine, but I think there are some differences, but nothing that should be a show stopper.

[Gertrude]

The thing about Pink Pistols is that since its members are interested in guns, many of them will have the same views on political and social issues as gun-rights people in general, and most (although by no means all) people who support gun rights are pretty conservative. It's not surprising to me that a conservative of any sexual orientation would have a hard time accepting trans people, although it's not a given. Perhaps that's what you're running into, although this is just a guess.

I am neither a republican nor democrat. I probably identify more with the libertarians, although I consider myself classically liberal. I find fault with both.

[Gertrude]

I have read and watched TV interviews and we as the T are late comers and we are fortunate the the LGB community embraced us to form the T. This provided both sides with a larger platform...In reality the LGB movement is about sexual oriental and not gender ....we are about gender. This animosity is limited to a few and humans will always have hate...look at our community and the very hateful comments that are made against each other...for example Caitlyn Jenner...let's all be aware that there are a minority who feel insecure and try and reason with them.

Yes Caitlyn. We have to have a big tent. I don't care if she's a republican or whatever, but there seems to be a conforming force, I suppose that exists in any group, where the same liturgy and orthodoxy has to be followed, including keywords and talking points. I don't go there, I'd rather think for myself. Caitlyn can do a lot of good by encouraging those in her party into becoming good human beings, which is more effective than shouting from the opposition all the time. I hope she is successful.

[Gertrude]

Meh.  I've experienced transphobia directed at me by transgender folk and misogyny from women.  Why hold outsiders to a higher standard?  The problem is entrenched in our culture.

That's just it, I didn't consider a gay person an outsider.

[Gertrude]

So don't go there again. Problem solved

I guess, but then a group becomes self-fulfilling. On those of a certain stripe need apply. I don't think the leadership in the group want that, but some people in it might. If we want diversity, we have to walk the talk.

[Gertrude]

I have certainly heard both misogyny and transphobia come from a transwoman before so it's no surprise you'll find it in the community at large. Not singling out lesbians here, but going from my personal experience and the experiences of others that I know, quite a few lesbians are transphobic. But then many reject bisexuals as well. Of course that's not all lesbians by a long shot, but there definitely isn't the solidarity throughout the LGBT community that one might expect or hope for.

Somehow we have to accept our differences and work towards a common goal. That doesn't mean we have to read from the same prayer book and hymnal, but the goals have to be the same and that is acceptance and inclusion in spite of indoctrination.