Passing...

[Laura Smith]

Having read numerous posts about the controversial subject, it would be interesting to see how we all feel?

Has your view of passing changed?

Is it all about confidence?

How important is "passing" to you personally?

[Karen_A]

Confidence matters, but it's not the be all and end all... good proportions, lack of strongly male markers , voice and mannerisms all matter to varying degree.

It depends on how it all comes together. Some things can be be made for in other areas, some things are dead giveaways. For a few it comes together so well that no one an ready them, but most of us are somewhere in the middle.

That said initially passing was VERY important to me... Now close to 2 decades later, it's nice but not the be all and end all... I'm not one that can pass 100% of the time. I have made my peace with that and don't worry about it. I don't "tell" people who don't already know or talk about it ... but assume I get read and not worry about it.

- karen
- karen

[JoanneB]

I wish I could say I don't give a Rat's Ass if I do or not, but I do. 30.... no 40 years ago now  I had my first of two transition experiments. A total fail. At 6 ft tall and big everything at a time of 5'5" tall women and 5'7" men I was doomed. But I tried. about 3 years later I tried again with the same result. So I settled on being "Just a Cross-Dresser"

Today, after several years of hard work on my insides, what matters most is being out in the real world as the real me. If I get a too long of a stare, I (mostly) no longer go negative. I figure they also thing think this old bat looks pretty good, again in a world still filled with 5'5" tall and FAR given up on looking like women, women.

Yet.... Knowing that in in at least a small way I have been seen as and accepted as a woman means more to me then.... life itself

So call me shallow

[Lady_Oracle]

I'd still say passing for me was a matter of survival and I guess it still is due to the area I live in but since reaching my goals I'm able to focus on living my life rather than worrying about my survival, which is a nice place to be. I feel like its well deserved cause I worked so hard with my voice and look in general that it wasn't easy getting to this stage. So to answer the OP I think it matters a great deal, especially now more than ever due to the fact that our community is now in the spotlight like never before.

I also highly disagree about the confidence thing, like I'm still a fairly unconfident individual lol with a good bit anxiety attached, yet I still pass without issue. Confidence helps but its nowhere near as important as other things like hair, understanding your body's proportions, makeup, voice, time on hrt..etc

[barbie]

To strangers, I pass 99%. But I have my family, friends, colleagues and students who I interact with everyday. All of them know that I am a kind of transgender person. To the most of people I meet everyday, passing is meaningless. My performance, personality and public service are far more important to them. I do not hide anything, and do not have any reason to do that. Some people treat me as a woman, while others as a queer man. I also have some admirers and most of them are women. They seem to think I am a kind of celebrity.

Of course, I am happy whenever people call me a lady.

Two weeks ago,a security woman at Dulles International Airport checked me. She saw my passport which shows clearly the 'M' mark. She initially called me sir, but immediately corrected it to call me ma'am. I was thankful!

barbie~~

[kittenpower]

I pass to some and not to others, and I'm comfortable with that since I am treated as a woman by everyone I interact with, and misgendering is almost nil (some jerks just have to let you know that they know, but I have the attitude of assuming that people can tell I'm trans, so I am not taken by surprise if someone chooses to be rude, but I will straight out ask them why they are being ignorant and disrespectful).

[paula lesley]

Do you want to know what the most important change has been ?

SMELL !

I do not skink ( Sorry " T " people )  I JUST DON'T CARE WHAT THE WORLD THINKS !

I don't smell male and that is all I really ever needed.

Wear what you want. Life is for living.

Paula, X.

[Emileeeee]

I prefer to not have to worry about passing ever, but I'll never have that. Most of the time it's not on my mind, only in certain situations. It would be nice if those situations weren't cause for concern. Maybe one day they won't be.

[barbie]

I JUST DON'T CARE WHAT THE WORLD THINKS !

Yes. I either don't care!

barbie!!

[Veronica J]

My ultimate goal is to dissappear into society... and pass..

the reality is a lot less, of this i am aware.. but one can hope

my second goal, is to learn skills to help others going thru the similar things we all are. cant help that part, its who i am.

[Lady Sarah]

After 25 years of HRT, and always having been quite feminine, I really don't worry about "passing". Heck ... I don't even wear makeup.

[LizK]

I don't imagine I will ever pass...I just have to accept it and if per chance HRT produces outstanding results then I still am unlikely to pass fully but may be able to stop the second glance...So I need to think in terms of how transitioning makes me feel.

I also have to remember that at some point the "Trans novelty value" will wear off for those around me, and who deal with me on a daily basis and as long as I can be treated with respect then I can live with that. I am not transitioning for anyone but me and am just grateful to still be alive to make that choice.


Liz                     

[Ⓥ]

Has your view of passing changed?

Yes~!  The bar keeps getting moved back.  Ex:

• If I could just look remotely feminine, I'd be passing
• If people would just call me ma'am, I'd be passing
• If people would just not stare at me in public, I'd be passing
• If I never once get misgendered from face to face interactions, I'd be passing
• If I could hook up with someone on a Tinder date and make it all night without the guy knowing, I'd be passing

^^Where I am now, and I don't fully pass!^^

• If I could have sex with someone and they do not know, I'd be passing
• If my gyno had no idea, I'd be passing

Is it all about confidence?

It seems (tho there are perhaps some exceptions) that confidence is a crutch that unpassable people lean on to justify their ability to get treated correctly.  They're not passing, however; people are just "getting" the situation and being respectful.  Girls who pass well know that they pass based on physical attributes, voice, and mannerisms.  Confidence plays a part in that equation as much as faith in God plays a part in astrophysics.

How important is "passing" to you personally?

Quite.

[Karen_A]

If my gyno had no idea, I'd be passing

My gyno knew from day 1... But I had  nurse practitioner in her office do a PAP test on me and not realize I was TS. That said I don't think she ever expected that a TS could be there.

Girls who pass well know that they pass based on physical attributes, voice, and mannerisms.  Confidence plays a part in that equation as much as faith in God plays a part in astrophysics.

I agree confidence by no means ensures passing... but an OBVIOUS LACK of confidence can draw attention/extra scrutiny that can get someone read. Someone who looks uncomfortable/nervous usually draws more scrutiny.

- Karen

[Lady Sarah]

Way back when I used to attend a support group, there was a discussion on passing. They mentioned male physical characteristics that were "giveaways". Several were upset that the only one I possessed was an adam's apple. After it was removed, and the incision fully healed, getting "read" became a thing of the past... even though I am 5' 10".

Looking at some of the photos here, I think electrolysis could go a long way in removing the beard hair that still shows after shaving. Luckily, I never developed anything more than peach fuzz, so I count myself lucky. As far as other features, one may wish to talk to a FACS plastic surgeon to discuss options ... if funding such procedures are an option ... and that is IF one has the desire to make such changes.

[LizK]

My Photo here is quite old but there are some things even surgery can't change. I don't believe I could have further facial surgery. Most of what you see is a reconstruction of my nose and upper lip. I am at times in total despair looking at my face...the comments from my surgeon and parents as I grew up, constantly saying how masculine my face would be how rugged and tough...I can remember at the time the feeling of total despair, because this is not what I wanted this what they thought I  wanted and at the age of 14 I refused to have any further surgeries. They thought at the time I was "ungrateful"

When we talk about passing, I have small hands and Feet, my frame is not overly big and fits well within the normal women's range. I am pretty sure that I will pass from a distance without a to much of a problem and by that I mean in a physical sense...getting the movements and subtleties right will come with practice. But once they get right up close there is no hiding my clearly male facial attributes.

Then the cost to try and fix the impossible is another huge factor...If I could find a surgeon who would do it, I doubt they could give me anywhere near a satisfactory result and I have enough $$ for SRS and one other small procedure. I chose hair implants because I hate wigs...and right at the moment I hate my hair implants as well but that will pass...I guess for me passing is not something that I ever considered as a real possibility...and no one has ever corrected this assumption of mine however I live with the hope that HRT may soften my harsh male features enough for me to blend in. But that in reality is the best I can hope for.

Liz

[Karen_A]

My Photo here is quite old but there are some things even surgery can't change. I don't believe I could have further facial surgery. Most of what you see is a reconstruction of my nose and upper lip.

If you don;t want facial surgery or of it would be finically too difficult then by all means do not have any more...

That said you would be surprised what boney (vs soft tissue) FFS can do. The thing to remember is much depends on the skill of the surgeon .

It takes an experienced maxillofacial surgeon (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_and_maxillofacial_surgery)  who has experience wit MTF facial feminization and a good artistic sense.

I had a Leno like chin... not now... The whole shape of the jaw can be changed. Also brow ridge can be minimized or removed (depends on you anatomy) and the whole fore head reshaped (which means the nose ha sot be redone or it would be out of proportion most of the time) .... 

While many of the the changes with boney FFS are subtle, the add up to a big change in gender perception... If done by an expert you winding looking facially like you could be your own sister...

But is is VERY expensive and you need a very good surgeon - anything else and you could wind up worst than "before".

I don't know who is the best these days.. but back when I was deciding (1998) the consensus was that Dr. O (now retired) was the best and that is who I went to. I took a second mortgage out on my house to do it because of was afraid of the consequence on not passing (things were just starting to change back then)

Again if you don't want more surgery or can't afford it, that is OK... but if you think you might want to eventually, do some research into it so you know what is possible ...

There is a Yahoo group devoted to FFS that is no longer very active, but  the archives have over a decade of very good information and discussions on the topic.

- Karen

[CrysC]

It makes life easier if you can pass.  There are just too many ignorant and angry people out there. 

For my part I talk with customers, speak on stage at conferences and lead efforts across large organizations.  If people can see and are distracted by my change, it makes it harder for me to do well.  Luckily I pass well enough where I have the confidence to do my job.  That is in part because the people I work with are awesome enough to treat me as a woman. 

[EmilyMK03]

Passing is critically important to me.  And no, I don't believe it's about confidence at all.  There are many cis women who lack confidence and have many insecurities, yet no one questions their gender.  The harsh reality is that passing is about appearances, voice, and comportment.

Unfortunately, due to my height, I will likely never pass when amongst a crowd of Asian women (such as at a local Japanese or Korean marketplace). I'm just too tall and stick out.  But in a crowd of regular Americans, I pass pretty well.  I'm 5' 7".  Most Asian women are 5 inches shorter.

So I just have to avoid hanging out with other Asians!!   LOL

[judithlynn]

Emily;
Like you passing is very important for me to.  But after nearly 3.5 years of HRT and having had Make-up, Deportment lessons, plus  had my Colour Analysis done (which has helped tremendously on my clothes section (UK House of Colour), extensive electrolysis and laser treatment, 44B bust and more rounded buttocks, plus having very small hands, feet and no Adams Apple it all goes towards making me  quite good these days at passing.

My aim as always is to blend a a "normal" if a bit overweight  average middle ahed woman.

As a CIS gendered woman I met recently said to me..Judith you are very convincing as a female and blend in very well"...  Thats my aim always.
As I aim not to stand out.
Judith

Mind you always smiling, having near perfect makeup