estrogen+HEROINE

[kalt]

I have some major concerns concerning estrogen therapy that I am going to voice so that it is in the light and is common knowledge.

Many effects of estrogen have been highlighted by our wiki team.  Unfortunatly, all of it seems self serving as it's all going over the feminizing effects of estrogen and a few side effects.  Considering the high rates of depression and drug use in transsexuals, what I'm about to discuss is highly disturbing that it hasn't been covered.

Estrogen increases the actions of dopamines greatly.
Yes, that's right.  Estrogen stimulates the nucleus accumbens which is the primary place for action for any form of dopamine not produced within the body.  That means that popular drugs like heroine, morphine, marijuana, all have greatly increased effects.  The effects of these drugs are 5-fold greater than what would be expected with the dosage while not on estrogen therapy.  This means that not only are risks of DUI much greater, but impaired judgement will compound the risk for discovery.  And considering the places one would be whilst doing these(drug houses, in the company of criminals, raves, etc), that's not a good thing.  Not only that, these drugs are downers, and since the person taking it is probably already suffering from depression, it could multiply the condition to suicidal levels.

Estrogen increases the excitability of neurons.  Estrogen creates quickly modifies neuronal excitability by changing membrane receptors located in intrinsic striatal GABAergic neurons and on DA terminals.  This means that all STIMULANTS, DELERIANTS, PSYCHOTICS, and HALLUCINGENS have their potency greatly increased.

Needless to say, there isn't a psychoactive substance out there who's potency isn't increased to dangerous levels by estrogen therapy.

Don't do drugs while on MtF HRT!  Just don't do it!  Figure out which is more important, cheap highs or full life change?  I'd much rather see that full life change come about through gender change rather than paralysis from a car crash or HIV from a hate crime from being discovered at a rave.

[kalt]

Yep, one of the reasons why I'm not a pothead.

Good girl^_^

[shanetastic]

I don't think you could get approved for a "legit" way of HRT if you are on any sort of psychoactive substance. . . well besides alcohol I would assume.  Although even then it is greatly despised upon.

[kalt]

I don't think you could get approved for a "legit" way of HRT if you are on any sort of psychoactive substance. . . well besides alcohol I would assume.  Although even then it is greatly despised upon.

It's easy both to think of faking a drug test and to do it.
It's easy to both realize that you need to lie about it and lie about being on substances.
It's done all the time.

[shanetastic]

True true.  I just don't know how common it is or anything so figured I'd throw that out there.

Anyways though, good post, looks like you have some research put into that.

[SarahFaceDoom]

Wait, if estrogen increases these effects, then the effects of these drugs would also be more potent on the GG population correct?

I would appreciate a little more information, without the scare tactics.  You want to save lives give people information that they can use sans the morality.

Posted on: October 23, 2007, 05:12:21 PM

I don't think you could get approved for a "legit" way of HRT if you are on any sort of psychoactive substance. . . well besides alcohol I would assume.  Although even then it is greatly despised upon.

Not uniformly true.  All they do is if you do drink, they won't give you the pills to take because it would be taxing on your liver.  I've been on HRT for two years and not once have I been given a drug test.

[kalt]

The only thing I really don't want to do is never drink again. Maybe after surgery they'll lower my meds enough that it won't be an issue.

Would be sad to not get at least a little tipsy on my 21st birthday..

I'm sure that'd be okay.
Just no injecting or snorting or smoking or swallowing stuffs.

Posted on: October 23, 2007, 07:31:44 PM

Wait, if estrogen increases these effects, then the effects of these drugs would also be more potent on the GG population correct?

No.
The neurons are both designed for the estrogen and they've had it in the system a lot longer.  Furthermore, the naturally produced estrogen and the synthetically intaken estrogen act completely differently on this topic.

I would appreciate a little more information, without the scare tactics.  You want to save lives give people information that they can use sans the morality.

I said it all right there, it takes a bit of medical back ground to understand.
Basicly, the body's response to outside estrogens is to excite the neurons, making it more sensetive to all forms of drugs, but also acting specifically on areas that receive dopamine which makes a large class of pain-relieving drugs VERY dangerous.
Granted, this is in theory and supported by studies on rats and such... but I still think it's a pretty big issue here.

[Annie Social]

...The effects of these drugs are 5-fold greater than what would be expected with the dosage while not on estrogen therapy.

Do you have any cite for this information, or are we supposed to take it on faith?

[lisagurl]

...The effects of these drugs are 5-fold greater than what would be expected with the dosage while not on estrogen therapy.

Do you have any cite for this information, or are we supposed to take it on faith?

I have never seen a human study that has a number close to that. Being responsible does not mean total absence. From my experience I would call that a false scare tactic.

[Ell]

I have some major concerns concerning estrogen therapy that I am going to voice so that it is in the light and is common knowledge.

Many effects of estrogen have been highlighted by our wiki team.  Unfortunatly, all of it seems self serving as it's all going over the feminizing effects of estrogen and a few side effects.  Considering the high rates of depression and drug use in transsexuals, what I'm about to discuss is highly disturbing that it hasn't been covered.

what do you mean self serving?
self serving to whom?

[SarahFaceDoom]

Also wouldn't diffrent drugs have diffrent effects with the estrogen, given that they are well...diffrent drugs.  Like Cocaine is a very diffrent drug from Marijuana which is diffrent still from LSD which in turn is diffrent from alcohol.

You just lump everything together and say that it mixes with estrogen for bad results--but then the bad results you list are drinking and driving, and passing out and getting beaten and raped at a rave, the bad side of each (getting hit by a car, getting raped by bigots) has much at all to do with the drug, and I would say in both instances, the thing that makes it dangerous are taking the drugs irresponsibly.

Don't drink and drive, and be careful at raves should be the topic.

I would on the other hand actually be interested to know about the long term effects of mixing HRT with various drugs.  Are there any that are worse than the others?  That sort of thing.

[Suzy]

I have never seen a human study that has a number close to that. Being responsible does not mean total absence. From my experience I would call that a false scare tactic.

And don't forget that it has been conclusively proven that 95.437% of all statistics are just made up.

[shanetastic]

I have never seen a human study that has a number close to that. Being responsible does not mean total absence. From my experience I would call that a false scare tactic.

And don't forget that it has been conclusively proven that 95.437% of all statistics are just made up.

The first day of my statistics class, my teacher said this as his first words.

"Statistics don't lie, but liers use statistics."

[asiangurliee]

I developed an allergic reaction of alochol after I've been on HRT.

[Steph]

While the topic raises very real concerns of mixing drugs and the possible side effects we still need references to support the subject.  TS take medications that were not intened to be used the way they are prescribed to us, therefore we are all at risk when on HRT.

I have to take issue with the statement that the Wiki is selfserving.  The information contained in all the articles is there for everyone's benifit including; all members of the TG community, friends and significant others, persons interested in TG community, medical professionals, social proffesionals, those from religious communities, everyone etc. etc.

Further more the information on HRT is drawn from recommendations provided to those genetic males/females who take the medications, and expanded to include the TS person.

Good topic though.

Steph

[LostInTime]

It actually takes more alcohol to get me drunk and it took a boat load before so based on my own personal experiences I would say that it depends on the individual.

And my liver function is just fine thank you. I only drink to excess once a month.

[kalt]

...The effects of these drugs are 5-fold greater than what would be expected with the dosage while not on estrogen therapy.

Do you have any cite for this information, or are we supposed to take it on faith?

That's rather difficult considering it's not something I just popped up online.
I hope you don't mind me listing the sources at the end of my textbook chapter.

http://www.erowid.org/references/refs_view.php?ID=6633

Wong, A.; Shetreat, M.; Clarke, J.; Rayport, S.: D1- and D2-like
dopamine receptors are co-localized on the presynaptic varicosities
of striatal and nucleus accumbens neurons in vitro. Neuroscience
89:221–233; 1999

Xiao, L.; Becker, J. B.: Quantitative microdialysis determination
of extracellular striatal dopamine concentrations in male and
female rats: Effects of estrous cycle and gonadectomy. Neurosci.
Lett. 180:155–158; 1994.

van Haaren, F.; Meyer, M.: Sex differences in the locomotor
activity after acute and chronic cocaine administration. Pharmacol.
Biochem. Behav. 39:923–927; 1991.

Savageau, M. M.; Beatty, W. W.: Gonadectomy and sex differences
in the behavioral responses of amphetamine and apomorphine
of rats. Pharmacol. Biochem. Behav. 14:17–23; 1981.

Robinson, T. E.; Becker, J. B.; Presty, S. K.: Long-term facilitation
of amphetamine-induced rotational behavior and striatal
dopamine release produced by a single exposure to amphetamine:
Sex differences. Brain Res. 253:231–241; 1982.

Robinson, T. E.: Stimulant drugs and stress: Factors influencing
individual differences in the susceptibility to sensitization. In:
Kalivas, P. W.; Barnes, C., eds. Sensitization of the nervous system.
Caldwell, NJ: Telford Press; 1988:145–173.

Posted on: October 24, 2007, 10:09:46 AM

Also wouldn't diffrent drugs have diffrent effects with the estrogen, given that they are well...diffrent drugs.  Like Cocaine is a very diffrent drug from Marijuana which is diffrent still from LSD which in turn is diffrent from alcohol.

All mind-altering substances act off neuron excitability or are depressants.  Depressants act off dopamine functions.
So yeah, all drugs>.>

[lisagurl]

Frye CA, Rhodes ME.
"Administration of estrogen to ovariectomized rats promotes conditioned place preference and produces moderate levels of estrogen in the nucleus accumbens".
Brain Res. 2006;1067(1):209-215.

We are not rats!

[kalt]

Frye CA, Rhodes ME.
"Administration of estrogen to ovariectomized rats promotes conditioned place preference and produces moderate levels of estrogen in the nucleus accumbens".
Brain Res. 2006;1067(1):209-215.

We are not rats!

Pssht, whatever:-p

Rats are mammals, so are we.
Luckily for us, rats are more willing to volunteer for hazardous and dangerous testing.

[Annie Social]

I see nothing in your referenced material that would justify the numbers you gave: "The effects of these drugs are 5-fold greater than what would be expected with the dosage while not on estrogen therapy. "