estrogen+HEROINE

[kalt]

I see nothing in your referenced material that would justify the numbers you gave: "The effects of these drugs are 5-fold greater than what would be expected with the dosage while not on estrogen therapy. "

"5-fold" was an educated estimate.
Keep in mind, everything is relavent to the individual.  Humans have a larger nucleus accumbens than do rats, so if you'll follow my train of logic here...

[taru]

I see nothing in your referenced material that would justify the numbers you gave: "The effects of these drugs are 5-fold greater than what would be expected with the dosage while not on estrogen therapy. "

"5-fold" was an educated estimate.
Keep in mind, everything is relavent to the individual.  Humans have a larger nucleus accumbens than do rats, so if you'll follow my train of logic here...

At least for the mind altering substances I have experience with, the 5-fold number is rubbish. Estro has effects on some of them but nothing this strong.

I don't want to get into a too detailed discussion about potentially illegal substances on an open forum, thus no exact details here.

[kalt]

At least for the mind altering substances I have experience with, the 5-fold number is rubbish. Estro has effects on some of them but nothing this strong.

I don't want to get into a too detailed discussion about potentially illegal substances on an open forum, thus no exact details here.

Well, are you acknowledging then that estrogen has affected your sensetivity to drugs?

And, won't you also accept that some people might have greater sensetivity due to estrogen than you do?

[Rachael]

Estrogen increases the excitability of neurons.  Estrogen creates quickly modifies neuronal excitability by changing membrane receptors located in intrinsic striatal GABAergic neurons and on DA terminals.  This means that all STIMULANTS, DELERIANTS, PSYCHOTICS, and HALLUCINGENS have their potency greatly increased.

Needless to say, there isn't a psychoactive substance out there who's potency isn't increased to dangerous levels by estrogen therapy.

Don't do drugs while on MtF HRT!  Just don't do it!  Figure out which is more important, cheap highs or full life change?  I'd much rather see that full life change come about through gender change rather than paralysis from a car crash or HIV from a hate crime from being discovered at a rave.

your telling me natal women have similar effects from thier estrogen production and thus shouldnt take drugs too?
hiv from a hate crime being discovered at a rave?
WHAT?
R

[lisagurl]

estrogen+HEROINE

Pipe dream, I do not know of anyone having an experience of magnification because of estrogen. The normal female has a large swing of every month. The drug dealers would have a field day adding it to cut drugs. If anything the less weight and smaller size of a female makes the same dose as a larger person takes, seem stronger.

[Steph]

This just a reminder to all members replying to topics...

You will keep the replies civil and respectful.  If you choose not to then your ability to post replies will be removed.  This is the only warning that you will get.

Steph

[taru]

And, won't you also accept that some people might have greater sensetivity due to estrogen than you do?

Do you have any evidence for the 5x number in actual humans? or even 2x?

If it would work lots of people would use it (since that would allow for lower doses - and thus more/cheaper stuff).

I asked around a little bit and got a sample size of 5 with HRT and opioids and no-one had such an increase that you describe. Or is heroin different from other opioids in this respect?

Also how would bio-identical estro be different from the estro in natal females?

[Rachael]

This is my point... surely women would have similar issues....
R

[Tanya1]

This is my point... surely women would have similar issues....
R

I think she said that taking it rather than producing it naturaully has different effects....

But yea,it seems exaggerated. what about women on menopause taking estro?

[Rachael]

i cant see a diffrence tbh... kalt seems to think the human body is physiologically different to an extent where men and women (in biological terms) react differently, although the effects of crosshormones isnt fully, or to any real extent researched with regards to thier effects on other things....
it would be my guess that there is little difference to the way an estrogen dominant system reacts, natural, or synthesised... as the bodies chemical levels will be similar.
the original point of estrogen changing neurological receptors would DEFFINAELY effect natal females anyway. so as they can take these substances without automatically keeling over and dieing, it cant be that bad,
weather we should be discussing ILEGAL NARCOTICS... on this forum, or how safe it is to take them with hrt, can only promote thier use. and ilegal drug promotion is probably not on susans list of things to do...
R

[shanetastic]

The way I think about this is. . . I don't plan to be doing heroine or any illegal drugs so I should be fine regardless of whatever science is out there

Sure it's the ignorant approach, but who cares!!!

[SarahFaceDoom]

i cant see a diffrence tbh... kalt seems to think the human body is physiologically different to an extent where men and women (in biological terms) react differently, although the effects of crosshormones isnt fully, or to any real extent researched with regards to thier effects on other things....
it would be my guess that there is little difference to the way an estrogen dominant system reacts, natural, or synthesised... as the bodies chemical levels will be similar.
the original point of estrogen changing neurological receptors would DEFFINAELY effect natal females anyway. so as they can take these substances without automatically keeling over and dieing, it cant be that bad,
weather we should be discussing ILEGAL NARCOTICS... on this forum, or how safe it is to take them with hrt, can only promote thier use. and ilegal drug promotion is probably not on susans list of things to do...
R

Yes, but not talking about this sort of thing is how people DO make mistakes.  Fear just leads to ignorance, which leads to a more dangerous world.  No one in this thread is glorifying drug use, just wanting facts.  Plus this thread isn't limited to illlegal drug use, it also includes alcohol use.

It is an important health concern for anyone to know the details of.

I would say the extent to which drugs and sex are NOT talked about in at least american society has caused more deaths and injuries than it has prevented.  Clear unbiased information should be available for people to use when deciding what sort of things they want to put into their body.

[Rachael]

last time i checked, it was about heroin....
R

[lisagurl]

last time i checked, it was about heroin....
R

That means that popular drugs like heroine, morphine, marijuana, all have greatly increased effects.  The effects of these drugs are 5-fold greater than what would be expected with the dosage while not on estrogen therapy.  This means that not only are risks of DUI much greater, but impaired judgment will compound the risk for discovery.

  Lucky we have courts.

[gothique11]

All right! 5 times the high, dude! *rolls a joint*

Joking... maybe. LOL

Anyway, seriously, from my experience I'm a much cheaper drunk than I was before -- but I also lost weight, so that could be a factor. And also I don't drink that much these days, which also probably is a factor. I also rarely get drunk, I just sip wine during a meal, or have my nice expensive alcohol to enjoy. I'm more of a social drinker, and picky about what I want. So, I don't know if it's really the HRT, since other factors play into it.

As for drugs, I don't really do them -- well, I had some green herbal stuff yesterday  (hey, I live in Canada). I have it from time to time. I don't think it seems to affect me more than it did before, however. I don't do it often, however, so I don't need much. A puff or two and I'm set. Other than that, I don't do the other stuff, since it makes me sick and I usually affect badly to it. The last time I had the hard stuff was when it was slipped into my drink and I was unaware of it. Yay for date rape drug! Which, I'm allergic too. So, no, I don't touch that kind of stuff. I've had ex-friends who are addicts and I've seen what it does to their life, and I also grew up around that with my mom, so I wouldn't want that for myself.


--natalie

[Wing Walker]

The way I think about this is. . . I don't plan to be doing heroine or any illegal drugs so I should be fine regardless of whatever science is out there 

Sure it's the ignorant approach, but who cares!!!

I'm with you on this, Shanetastic.  In this case ignorance might well contribute to bliss.

I lost my kid brother to heroin in 1998.  He was about 6'2" tall and weighed well over 200 pounds, no estrogen present in him, just heroin.

Wing Walker
Fly Away From Drugs, Especially Street Stuff

[lisagurl]

The word illegal does not always pose a threat to the individual sometimes it created by those in charge to manipulate people to their advantage such as in book burning.

[Rachael]

what is the greatest killer with relation to narcotics?
the drug?
the substances thier cut with?
the culture?

nope, anti drug groups and missinformation, and excessive criminalisation to the point people with problems relating to a specific narcotic cannot get medical help.
one of the most public cases of death from extacy in the uk was the girls parents fault.... they paniced when she came home after taking some, and literally force fed her water till she died of blood solute flushing...
the greatest killer is words...
R

[deviousxen]

Well...Its about time those drugs did something besides inducing coughing!

But seriously...

I'm pretty much a Caffeine lover more than anything else. As long as I can do my work in peace, I'm not THAT unsatisfied with the secular view of things.
Not that pot shouldn't be legalized. There's far worse in the pharmacy.
Its not like I'm gonna be a cokehead.

[Rachael]

its safer to be a cokehead than to smoke weed regularly....
R