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9 months on estrogen mystery !!

Started by Squirebuffy1990, July 31, 2016, 07:09:54 AM

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Squirebuffy1990

I've been on high dose of Estradot patches for the past 9 months, without a T blocker. 

My experienced doctor said my T was already low, and its safer to not use T blockers and just use the patches.  I went along with this.

The estradot has given me very high levels of oestrogen,  and low levels of T over 9 months. Female range for both - my E is even slightly too high.

I've seen very minor physical changes (annoying), and zero mental or emotional changes (good).

Interestingly, my sperm is watery (or barely there) yet my sexual arousal and sexual interest is still no different at all to pre hormones.

The biggest mystery to me though is how I'm still not even an A cup after having all this oestrogen in me. My doctor says it's not usual because I'm 5'7 and very slim, but it still seems weird to me. I want boobs! I know other slim transgender girls my age who are a B cup after 6 months!  :-\

I'm wishing I started on the more common hormone treatment of having a T blocker. People seem to see more changes. I'm even wearing an extra patch now to see if it helps breast tissue.  I have two lumps still and no changes to my nipple shape. It's been 9 months today! :(

Can someone give me advice, reassure me or disprove my suspicions that something's not right.
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LizK

IU am certainly no expert here but the research I have done says that boob size is about genetics, Arre the other women in your family big? Age will make a difference. The reason you have low T could also be a reason you are not developing. I have low to no T at all due to a medication pump I have implanted so in reality you would think the E would work better. I do know as with all drugs there are safe and effective levels of treatment and taking more is not always the answer and can be a complete waste. Hormones are a few year proposition(to get working properly), have you got anything happening at all? Nipple enlargement? Skin improvement...anything?

How long do you need to wait until he will investigate further...good luck and I hope it is not too long

Hugs


Liz
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
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Ms Grace

Well T blockers aren't really going to do much towards breast growth, it's the estrogen that does that.

One point - breast growth is determined by genetics, no matter how high your estrogen levels if your body isn't programmed for boobs then they're unlikely to grow. Many, many genetic women encounter this too.

One suggestion - maybe the method of delivery isn't doing it for you. Sure it has raised your levels of E but perhaps the patches aren't helping much. I say this because I spent close to two years on HRT in the early 1990s with minimal breast growth (AA cup, if that) but this time around they developed quite nicely. That was on different HRT and different delivery methods (implant and pills instead of injection and pills). I have no idea about any difference in dosage.

It may be though that you are on patches for health reasons to avoid circulatory system or liver issues.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
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Squirebuffy1990

Thanks for replying ladies.

My sister and mother have C up boobs! It cant be genetics.

There has been growth, but they are very small lumps and one is bigger than the other. My face has filled out and my skin is softer, that's the only changes I've seen.

I might ask my doctor if I could get the injection, that seems to get more physical changes.
  •  

LizK

I used patches for pain medication for about 4 years and found them next to useless at times and there are so many things that can impact the uptake into your system from a patch...stuff you wouldn't even think of....I think delivery method is an excellent place to start looking

Hugs

Liz
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
  •  

Ms Grace

Quote from: Squirebuffy1990 on July 31, 2016, 08:02:11 AM
My sister and mother have C up boobs! It cant be genetics.

That is a general rule of thumb but doesn't always apply, some sisters have quite different sized boobs. But regardless just remember it would have taken them more than nine months as teen girls to develop to size C. Some genetic women are also quite flat until after childbirth.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
  •  

Squirebuffy1990

I'll see what Dr Curtis says when I go back in November.

Could ask about Injections.
  •  

Dena

It took me 5 years to reach a AA cup and I currently after many years am only a B cup. The real test would be to have your doctor check your total estrogen and estradiol  levels. This test will tell you  if you are absorbing sufficient estrogen or if you need to look at another delivery method. Nine months is early to determine what your final results will be and if you didn't have moobs, it will take longer for you to develop.
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
If you are helped by this site, consider leaving a tip in the jar at the bottom of the page or become a subscriber
  •  

JLT1

Hi,

That you are not developing sperm says a lot.  You are getting E.  We can't talk about dosages but we can talk about levels.  I would be curious to know yours.  Given how cis-women's level vary, the term normal is almost meaningless. 

My breast growth was slow on E and a T blocker.  It picket up a little following an orchi.  It picked up a lot following the addition of progesterone.

Let us know..

Hugs

Jen
To move forward is to leave behind that which has become dear. It is a call into the wild, into becoming someone currently unknown to us. For most, it is a call too frightening and too challenging to heed. For some, it is a call to be more than we were capable of being, both now and in the future.
  •  

KellsieLynne1

I have been on HRT for 7yrs, and never got any bigger than a A cup.   It takes Cisgendered women, on average from onset of puberty to their late teens early twenty's to develope fully.  That's five to seven years.   Breast development takes time,  they will not grow to their fullest in nine months.   Be patient, they will get there.  Your expectations for breast growth in nine months is really unrealistic.  No offense, but it does take at least five years for your breasts to fully develop. 
  •  

Squirebuffy1990

Hi Jen,

My oestrogen levels on my last blood test were bit high at 1109 and my T was 1.5


"It took me 5 years to reach a AA cup and I currently after many years am only a B cup."

I don't mean to be rude or anything, if that's fine with you that's great, but I really cant wait that long. 
  •  

Squirebuffy1990

 "Your expectations for breast growth in nine months is really unrealistic. "

Wanting to be an A cup after 9 months of A LOT of estrogen is not unrealistic.  I'm 23 and in good health.

  •  

Jenna Marie

Cis girls take 5-10 years to develop, and there's no reason to expect that our breasts will act differently. There are plenty of girls who are still less than an A cup a year into puberty, which is a more realistic way of looking at it. Speed does not determine final size, and it's worth noting that the speed of development is a different genetic factor from the final size, too. (So, for example, if your sister was like my wife, who started puberty at 11 and wasn't finished growing breasts until 22, you might also have inherited the slower development pattern.) I know it's hard to be patient, but everyone's bodies are different.

I started on patches with no T blocker, as you have, and I had relatively quick development; my sister was also one of those girls who went from flat to C cup in about a single school year. The patch method of administration and the lack of T blocker *can* be effective, particularly since there's no point in using a T blocker when your T is already in the female range. Estrogen is also a T blocker to some degree; the main reason most doctors don't rely on it exclusively anymore is that most trans women require very high doses of E to keep T under control. Since you clearly do not (you're on patches and your T is in the desired range), all a separate T blocker would do is lower your levels *below* the preferred range.
  •  

JoanneB

As in all things hormonal, YMMV.

One night during my group meeting we shared experiences with HRT. About all of us have been through various forms and routes of administration for estrogen. The only one nobody had experience with was implantable.

Some differently on different people which is why a switch was made.

And of course, depending on your doc's school of thought, perhaps High is too high? Or, his concept of High is not what is needed to achieve female secondary sex characteristics? Can't see how height comes into play. Diet, body fat, etc. sure. Plenty of short women have big breasts. Almost seems like a universal irony in the FTM world.

Elevated E can drop T in some individuals. I know for this gal it is not the case. After 5 years on E and an AA with pretty steady levels I dropped the AA. After about a year my general outlook on life was sure darker and was more prone to depression. When my blood test came in guess what? From T in the sub-basement I was at the low end of normal M.

There are also 2 different T levels. I'm no expert but perhaps the one is low and the other is normal?
.          (Pile Driver)  
                    |
                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
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Squirebuffy1990

Can it be bad if your E is really high? Can that almost ruin the process?
Maybe I should take off that extra patch?
  •  

Dena

If the doctor prescribe the additional patch then you should talk with your doctor. If not, then remove it. There are two schools of thought on Estradiol levels. The first is pregnant CIS women often have very high levels of Estradiol and it doesn't hurt them however most doctors target 200 pg/ml. The reason for this is through the month a woman might range between 30 and 370 pg/ml with only a small amount of time spent at the upper level. If the units are pg/ml you are on the high side of normal treatment levels. I am including a link that will explain normal treatment levels in more detail.
http://www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/hrt_ref.htm
Rebirth Date 1982 - PMs are welcome - Use [email]dena@susans.org[/email] or Discord if your unable to PM - Skype is available - My Transition
If you are helped by this site, consider leaving a tip in the jar at the bottom of the page or become a subscriber
  •  

JoanneB

Quote from: ElizabethK on July 31, 2016, 08:04:47 AM
I used patches for pain medication for about 4 years and found them next to useless at times and there are so many things that can impact the uptake into your system from a patch...stuff you wouldn't even think of....I think delivery method is an excellent place to start looking

Hugs

Liz
My wife has been on Fentanyl patches. They come in 2 varieties that we identify as the "Paper Tape" or "Squishy". Only the squishy ones work on her, the paper tape variety was a waste of money, did nothing.
.          (Pile Driver)  
                    |
                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
  •  

LizK

Quote from: JoanneB on July 31, 2016, 01:57:17 PM
My wife has been on Fentanyl patches. They come in 2 varieties that we identify as the "Paper Tape" or "Squishy". Only the squishy ones work on her, the paper tape variety was a waste of money, did nothing.

Fentanyl!!! oh how I hated those things, mainly because, for me, they were hit and miss with their quality. I manged to work out a system where I got as constant level maintained even though there are usually peaks and troughs due to the uptake rate via the skin. It got the drug authority bent out of shape to the extent they accused me of misappropriating the patches so I could remove and store the Fentanyl for my own personal drug habit eeeewwwww. They did not expect the backlash from me and I demanded an apology and got it. Up until this point I had been a good little patient and very compliant. After this I took control and had very few problems.

Hugs
Liz
Transition Begun 25 September 2015
HRT since 17 May 2016,
Fulltime from 8 March 2017,
GCS 4 December 2018
Voice Surgery 01 February 2019
  •  

Ms Grace

Quote from: Squirebuffy1990 on July 31, 2016, 10:40:11 AM
Wanting to be an A cup after 9 months of A LOT of estrogen is not unrealistic.  I'm 23 and in good health.

There are many, many 23 year old genetic women in good health and with more than enough estrogen pumping through their bodies for close to ten years who would love to have an A cup too. It's a genetic thing. But I still wonder about the delivery method so will be interested to hear what happens with your doc.

One other thing to consider is that cup size isn't determined by boob size alone, it also factors in chest size. A group of woman might all technically have breasts that are the same size and yet they might also have different cup sizes if their chest sizes differ...what is a B for one could be DD for another. Strange but true.
Grace
----------------------------------------------
Transition 1.0 (Julie): HRT 1989-91
Self-denial: 1991-2013
Transition 2.0 (Grace): HRT June 24 2013
Full-time: March 24, 2014 :D
  •  

JoanneB

Quote from: Ms Grace on August 01, 2016, 05:06:49 AM
One other thing to consider is that cup size isn't determined by boob size alone, it also factors in chest size. A group of woman might all technically have breasts that are the same size and yet they might also have different cup sizes if their chest sizes differ...what is a B for one could be DD for another. Strange but true.
Which is why when you find a bra brand, style & size that works and feels good on you you stock up or hope they keep on making it
.          (Pile Driver)  
                    |
                    |
                    ^
(ROCK) ---> ME <--- (HARD PLACE)
  •