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Pope: It's 'terrible' kids taught they can choose gender

Started by Mariah, August 02, 2016, 08:30:34 PM

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Michelle_P

Dear Holiness:

I didn't choose my gender.  I chose to live my life, rather than live with suicidal depression.  God made me the way I am.  Consider it a gift I chose to accept, or a test that I chose to pass.  I'm pretty sure suicide is considered failing a test by a merciful, loving God.

Thanks
Michelle
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Elena1270

Its sad that Pope Francis is so progressive on so many other issues cannot be progressive on LGBT issues. The church needs to get out of the dark ages but I dont see that happening any time soon.
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Michelle_P

There's a really wise person who told a tale in which a wealthy fellow has three of his workers take care of parts of his wealth.  Two of the workers invest it, grow it, and return the original wealth multiplied to their boss, who rewards them for taking such good care.  The third worker is frightened, and buries his investment, so when the boss comes back to him, all he has to show is what he started with and kept hidden.  He gets fired.

Now, God doesn't make mistakes.  God made me the way I am for a reason.  Call it a gift, a challenge, or a test, but it is currently in my hands.  Do I improve on it, grow it, and become all I can be, my true self, or do I dig a deep hole and bury this gift where it will never be seen or grow?

I think I'll ignore the Pharisees that insist I bury this gift and never let it see the light.  I'll follow the advice of that wise fellow and improve, grow myself to all that I can, becoming my true self. At the end of my days I'll be able to return something nice.

I feel that this is what I am called to do.
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Seshatneferw

This article <https://catholictrans.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/what-does-pope-francis-actually-say-about-transgenderism/>, written around the time the Pope compared gender theory to the nuclear arms race, presents an argument that he's not really anti-trans. If so, he's at least rather clueless about how he comes across.

I must admit, though, that I kind of like the idea of being as dangerous as nuclear weapons.  >:-)
Whoopee! Man, that may have been a small one for Neil, but it's a long one for me.
-- Pete Conrad, Apollo XII
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Michelle_P

Yup.

(Gender reassignment surgery) "could be morally acceptable in certain extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will cure the patient's internal turmoil."
- Catholic canon law, 1997, Cardinal Navarrete
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Deborah

To the best of my knowledge, that statement was not in cannon law but rather in a supposedly secret and unpublished memo in 2003.  Regardless, the whole thing remains ignored in the Catechism which is the document people read to form their faith.

Because it remains ignored, many catholic priests openly condemn it in writing with one Cardinal several years ago explicitly saying we are going to hell. 

So yes, there is a problem that Catholic apologists cannot paper over.
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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becky.rw

I would like to note, as I've been kinda defending the way the Church handles things, is that my defense does not imply no problem, but rather, I try to approach the problem in the way that these things typically evolve over time.

As you note, there is no blanket prohibition in cannon that says, "if you are transgender, you are going to hell."   

There are priests and bishops that do say odd or horrible things; just as I say odd and horrible things sometimes.   Sometimes I'm aware and understand my insensitivity, and apologize in a timely fashion; and sometimes I fail to do so.   That does not imply that the doctrine of the Church is that odd and horrible thing.

To the quoted comment, I do not think the pope is using the term "gender" in the same sense that we do; and I darn near agree about rejecting the word "choose".   If I could choose, I'd just be a guy in a guy body, if only because I'm incredibly lazy, and that would be easiest.    But I'm not.   There is no choose, there is only discover, then act, or do not act.

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Deborah

It's also worth mentioning about that quoted document that there is more to the story.  It does allow for treatment, HRT and GRS, to relieve mental anguish in some cases.  It further goes on to say that this in no way alters your birth sex, that no gender change occurs nor is any allowed to be acknowledged by the Church.  And it further bans one from marriage or the taking of any holy orders.

So, it in effect simply allows for an extreme medical solution to what they still define as mental illness.

For me, that's not good enough.
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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DawnOday

I am sorry if this offends anyone. But considering the current status of pedifiles in the Catholic Church is the Pope suggesting It is a better choice to decide to be a Priest instead. Sorry I can't be that much of a hypocrite. Be true to yourself. I don't believe the Bible ever sanctioned pedifiles.
Dawn Oday

It just feels right   :icon_hug: :icon_hug: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss: :icon_kiss:

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First indication I was different- 1956 kindergarten
First crossdress - Asked mother to dress me in sisters costumes  Age 7
First revelation - 1982 to my present wife
First time telling the truth in therapy June 15, 2016
Start HRT Aug 2016
First public appearance 5/15/17



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Deborah

The Pope isn't suggesting that.  While there has been obvious problems with that there is nothing to suggest he has ever condoned it. 

What the Church is saying is that Holy orders have a gender requirement and that it is impossible to change one's birth gender as defined by their physical sex.
Love is not obedience, conformity, or submission. It is a counterfeit love that is contingent upon authority, punishment, or reward. True love is respect and admiration, compassion and kindness, freely given by a healthy, unafraid human being....  - Dan Barker

U.S. Army Retired
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becky.rw

No offense taken, but I'd like to urge caution.   pedophiles became priests in order to find ways to get close to their prey.   Now that the light is focused on that job, they will find other jobs that place them in close proximity to kids with the opportunity for privacy that allows them to commit their crimes.

Its real easy to latch onto the idea that because some priests were found to be pedophiles, that the job caused them to be such.   And nothing could be further from the truth.   Their deviant, non-consensual focus was established, usually before adolescence, long before the thought of "which job will let me hunt best" crosses their minds.

They will find the next vulnerable profession.  There is nothing special about "priest" in that regard.
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V M

Hi friends  :police:

Unfortunately pedophiles come from all walks of life from the wealthy high profile types to the poorest of the poor

This doesn't give people permission to bash a particular religion, it also violate site rules

Quote10. Bashing or flaming of an individual or group is not acceptable behavior on this website and will not be tolerated in the slightest for any reason.  This includes but is not limited to:
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Thank you

V M
The main things to remember in life are Love, Kindness, Understanding and Respect - Always make forward progress

Superficial fanny kissing friends are a dime a dozen, a TRUE FRIEND however is PRICELESS


- V M
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