parent of 13 year old -- need advice

[ohmcgee]

Hi, I hope I didn't read incorrectly and that this is also a board to talk about children. If not, let me know. If so, hi! I'm the mother of a thirteen year old girl. She hasn't asked to change pronouns as of yet, so I will still be referring to her as a girl, using she, etc. Also, I am aware no one can tell me what my child identifies as except for her, but I am here hoping to find a little insight or maybe connect with someone who has gone through the same thing.

Here's our story:

She's never been a girly girl. As a child she loved My Little Pony, dinosaurs, the movie Cars and The Last Unicorn and every movie about dinosaurs. She'd get fiesty when the drive thru person at McDonald's would say she wanted a "boy toy" because she wanted the Power Ranger. She told them once "I'm a GIRL." I've always believed in gender neutral toys, programming, etc, so she basically played with and did a mix of things, but she was never the "stereotypical" girl child, playing with dolls or barbies, playing house and pretending to be the mommy, etc. Her favorite toys (that we still have actually) was a huge pink My Little Pony castle and a big plastic fold up batcave lol. Oh, and the ninja turtle van. The pony's would go riding around in that. :p

Most of her life she's worn shirts from the boy's section and girls jeans because the boy's section just always had the kind of cool tees she liked, though there were exceptions of course. For a very short period she insisted on only wearing "shirts that fit" from the girls section, but that lasted less than a year. Her interests have been: dinosaurs, video games (minecraft, Animal Jam, Wizard 101, Pokemon) and drawing. Draws all the time. When she was 7, I believe, she was designing her own video game and she said you could choose to be "a girl or a boy or a non-gender person." She's constantly drawing and making up her own characters and I can never tell what gender they are because she draws them all very androgynously. Also for most of her elementary life she hung out with the boys. That's who she sat with at lunch, played with at p.e, etc. But she did have a handful of girl friends. She pretty much just liked everybody but I think related to the boys better. Oh, and she was in two (really, really lowkey) beauty pageants that her school put on each year. She totally hated getting her hair and makeup done, but it was her choice to be in the pageant, I'm no pageant mom lol. She liked trying on the sparkly dresses.

SO. Okay. Then puberty happened. I didn't realize it until NOW, but that's when she developed what -- I laughed about then -- as an unnatural attachment to her hoodie. She's wear it in 90 degree heat. She'd wear it to sleep it. I realize now it was because she'd hit puberty and started getting boobs. The boys she had always hung around started treating her differently. That was fifth grade. Her boobs didn't STOP. She's a thirteen year old with 38c's, man. She's miserable.

Like I said, I think the dysphoria started in fifth grade although I'm not even sure she was aware why she was wearing her hoodie all the time. Either way, she didn't come to me about her discomfort until about sixth months ago. She just randomly asked me if I cared if she wore two sports bras. I was kind of like because I'd totally never heard of doing that and we live in Florida and I just told her it would be super uncomfortable. Then I noticed her getting really upset if the neck of her "girl" shirts was too low. Then she came to me asking if I could get her a binder. That's when I really started looking into things. After that it just really snowballed. During one crying fit about how much she hates her boobs and wants to get rid of them she says, "I just want to be a guy. I just want to be transgender."

She has days where she spends hours on my bed with me crying about how uncomfortable her chest makes her, asking if she can shower in a sports bra, wearing huge baggy shirts and hoodies, and days where she doesn't seem to be bothered, wears fitted "girl" shirts and seems okay. I've taken her shopping for clothes specifically out of the boy's/mens section. She wears boxers instead of women's underwear now. But she doesn't want a short (boy) haircut. She did get it cut, but it's just about chin length. Also she freaked about a month or two ago that her legs were too hairy and begged me to let her shave them. Now she doesn't want to shave them anymore.

SO. If you were amazing enough to read that entire wall of text basically what I'm asking is, has anyone else had a teenager girl go through this? I honestly, HONESTLY have no problem with having a transgender child. However, I don't feel like that's exactly what's going on. Or -- I don't feel that she feels that she is a male in a female body. I definitely believe she is outside the gender binary. But I feel as a teenager going through puberty she is seeing things in black and white and thinks that becoming a boy will make her life better.  Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on this/advice?

Also I just don't know what to do about her dysphoria with her breasts. I've tried googling but it's generally "my daughter hates her SMALL boobs." Not the other way around. Of if it is, there is nothing offered as a solution. We've tried layering. We've tried sports bras and camisoles. Right now she's wearing a sports bra with a looser sports bra over that and a tight cami over that with a large-ish t-shirt on top. It just doesn't do much to hide 38c's. I'm worried about binders because of the health risks and the tissue damage and he fact that she's only thirteen, but I also don't want her to be miserable in her own body.

Help? 

[Dena]

Welcome to Susan's Place. First  a SO is defined as anybody who knows somebody who is transgender so you are in the right place Next, I was MTF but I have been a moderator for almost a year and that means reading many  posts by the FTMs on the site. Your daughter has many of the classic symptoms I have seen with the FTMs. My guess is if she isn't binary male, she is very close to it. As for help, you should get her to a gender therapist as soon as you can for a proper diagnosis. Most likely the next stop would be with the therapist recommendation, an Endo would start estrogen blockers. They would halt puberty but allow normal growth to continue. In our body, our birth sex hormone is the cause of dysphoria and reducing it helps to eliminate the dysphoria we feel. As your daughter spends time in therapy, she will decide how she wants to proceed in life and then as she nears 18 the decision for testosterone or discontinuing blockers will be made.

The trick with the double sports bra is common among the FTMs so I suspect your daughter as found a web site like ours if not ours that she is getting information from. You may suggest this one to her as we are watchful when it comes to our younger members.

For some reason, most of the FTMs tend to post mostly in there area. Should you have questions for them, you are free to post in that areas so you reach them directly. In the SO area you will receive extra protection from the moderators and may vent more if needed than elsewhere  on the site. Should you have additional questions, feel free to post them in this thread.

We issue to all new members the following links so you will best be able to use the web site.

Things that you should read

Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By	Standard Terms & Definitions	Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar)
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[ohmcgee]

Thank you for the welcome and for the information. I wasn't aware the puberty blockers (all I have heard them referred to as) would be beneficial for her since she's already been in puberty almost 2 years, but that makes sense that it's the hormones that cause dysphoria!

[Dena]

That's the thing that so many critics don't understand about us is our discomfort has a biological cause and isn't something that can be treated by therapy alone. I was overdue for bed when I posted last night and need to get ready for work and I forgot about the binders but that information should be located here.

[Deborah]

I would just like to reinforce one point about the hormones.  Getting them sorted out, for many of us, addresses or solves a host of emotional issues.  The most important of these is that for many, it cures, or at least greatly reduces depression.  This is regardless of what other changes may be made at the same time.

[Elis]

It's awesome that you're so supportive . Your child sounds like me as a teenager. I was constantly wearing jumpers even in summer to hide my chest; although I didn't realise the reason why.

I agree that your child should go to a gender therapist soon as well as discuss the possibility of hormone blockers. I think you should also let your child now ASAP that you're supportive and accepting (especially that you're accepting of them being non binary as few cisgendered people understand it) your child may already be wishing for testosterone or having depression because of the dysphoria and worrying how you'd feel about them being trans.

As for binders GC2B is the best on the market. It's specifically designed for trans men's bodies and is very comfortable. It doesn't cause me any rib pain or breathing issues at all and I wear mine for 10 hrs a day and am a B cup. The tissue doesn't really get damaged when you wear a binder; although if you were a binder for years constantly it will most likely cause the breasts to sag slightly.

I'd also look into attending a transgender support group that you both can go to together. I also like using tumblr as it's the only place I can find non binary people and its a great supportive resource.

Here's a link on the types of nb identities http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Main_Page. It's important to remember that gender can be fluid just like sexuality can be fluid. Your child may identify as genderqueer to ease into the idea of being trans (which is what I did) then identify as trans male or a different type of non binary gender. They may also feel more comfortable looking feminine on one day or more masculine the next or be comfortable with their bodies and not want to medically transition at all.

Hope this clears some things up

[Jacqueline]

ohmcgee,

I don't have a lot to add to the great advice that has already been given. Just a few additional observations.

I had a friend in college with huge breasts. Could not have been more female in either identification or orientation. However, she hated such a huge chest. She ended up getting surgical reduction. So, it is not always an indication of trans issues.

However, as Dena stated, it sounds like your daughter might be on the trans spectrum. There are those that claim that at that age kids are experimenting to find out who they are. Once all the chemicals settle, they will be fine. I don't share a lot of agreement with that. I think following the child's lead is a pretty good idea(even if they change their minds later). This brings me to another thing Dena brought up initially.

Try to get her to a therapist. Preferably a gender based therapist. As you stated, a therapist will not tell you or her what she is, more help guide them to their own conclusions. Most areas in the US will require a therapist to get a referral to an endocrinologist. Since they are a minor, you would have to approve any sort of HRT.

I too want to thank you for being so supportive of your child and so proactive as to create an account and look for help. It may seem obvious to you but it is decidedly not a norm. I can also tell you from reading posts here and knowing a few trans guys, their periods tend to be a trigger time. Not sure if that has lined up with worse "flare ups"?

I wish you luck and a smooth journey. I imagine if you can help get your child to a more firm ground they will realize how much you have helped them.

With warmth,

Joanna

[ohmcgee]

It's awesome that you're so supportive . Your child sounds like me as a teenager. I was constantly wearing jumpers even in summer to hide my chest; although I didn't realise the reason why.

I agree that your child should go to a gender therapist soon as well as discuss the possibility of hormone blockers. I think you should also let your child now ASAP that you're supportive and accepting (especially that you're accepting of them being non binary as few cisgendered people understand it) your child may already be wishing for testosterone or having depression because of the dysphoria and worrying how you'd feel about them being trans.

As for binders GC2B is the best on the market. It's specifically designed for trans men's bodies and is very comfortable. It doesn't cause me any rib pain or breathing issues at all and I wear mine for 10 hrs a day and am a B cup. The tissue doesn't really get damaged when you wear a binder; although if you were a binder for years constantly it will most likely cause the breasts to sag slightly.

I'd also look into attending a transgender support group that you both can go to together. I also like using tumblr as it's the only place I can find non binary people and its a great supportive resource.

Here's a link on the types of nb identities http://nonbinary.org/wiki/Main_Page. It's important to remember that gender can be fluid just like sexuality can be fluid. Your child may identify as genderqueer to ease into the idea of being trans (which is what I did) then identify as trans male or a different type of non binary gender. They may also feel more comfortable looking feminine on one day or more masculine the next or be comfortable with their bodies and not want to medically transition at all.

Hope this clears some things up

Oh we've definitely talked and she knows I'm supportive! But I've also voiced my concerns, explained why I haven't bought a binder yet because I'm still looking into, etc. I do identify as a cisgender woman, but I've never really fit into the stereotypical/binary feminine box, so I do understand a lot of it. And I have quite a few friends online who are of all sort of genders. I'm the kind of person that really just believes that anything can be fluid and be what makes you comfortable at the time. The only thing that's truly stressing me out about this is her age. Thanks for the advice!

[ohmcgee]

ohmcgee,

I don't have a lot to add to the great advice that has already been given. Just a few additional observations.

I had a friend in college with huge breasts. Could not have been more female in either identification or orientation. However, she hated such a huge chest. She ended up getting surgical reduction. So, it is not always an indication of trans issues.

However, as Dena stated, it sounds like your daughter might be on the trans spectrum. There are those that claim that at that age kids are experimenting to find out who they are. Once all the chemicals settle, they will be fine. I don't share a lot of agreement with that. I think following the child's lead is a pretty good idea(even if they change their minds later). This brings me to another thing Dena brought up initially.

Try to get her to a therapist. Preferably a gender based therapist. As you stated, a therapist will not tell you or her what she is, more help guide them to their own conclusions. Most areas in the US will require a therapist to get a referral to an endocrinologist. Since they are a minor, you would have to approve any sort of HRT.

I too want to thank you for being so supportive of your child and so proactive as to create an account and look for help. It may seem obvious to you but it is decidedly not a norm. I can also tell you from reading posts here and knowing a few trans guys, their periods tend to be a trigger time. Not sure if that has lined up with worse "flare ups"?

I wish you luck and a smooth journey. I imagine if you can help get your child to a more firm ground they will realize how much you have helped them.

With warmth,

Joanna

You know, about periods, that's been a weird thing. Before any of this even arose, before she even hit puberty, I was SO AFRAID she was going to freak out. But she didn't? I sat down and explained why it happened (basically: so your body can make babies one day, to which she said: "Okay. But what if I don't want to have babies? Can I just...skip it? Heh. If only.) and I showed her what to do and...it hasn't been a big thing. She never really complains about that at all.

The only thing she truly complains about is her chest and at first, of course, I just tried to help her become comfortable with her body and understand why she didn't like this part of herself: did someone touch her, did someone say something to make her uncomfortable? And it always comes back to this dirty little comment another 12 year old said. Not to her specifically, but about another girl. Also after she started 6th grade/puberty she started freaking out that her shorts were "too short." I mean. I literally bought her mom shorts because that's what she picked out at the store. They were most certainly not daisy dukes of any kind, but she said they make her uncomfortable because they "show off her butt."  SO as you can see, I'm confused as if I'm dealing with a body issues thing or a gender thing. I *am* currently looking for a gender therapist, but we live in a severely rural, severely southern area and it's proving difficult. She sees a regular therapist but...I don't think she's equipped to discuss it.

Anyway, I've went on another tangent. Thank you for all of your support and advice!

[BeverlyAnn]

ohmcgee, first welcome to Susan's.  Your child sounds a lot like my great-nephew (I'll call him T) with the clothing and everything.  While I don't know all the conversations you've had, T came out to his parents first as lesbian and then a little over a year ago as trans.  He had a lot of the same problems regarding breast growth and still has a lot of dysphoria regarding them especially since some of his friends in his support group have been able to have top surgery.  He was able to start testosterone a couple of months ago just before he turned 16 and it has made a world of difference in him.  At your child's age, like others have said, therapy along with hormone blockers would be appropriate if warranted.

SO as you can see, I'm confused as if I'm dealing with a body issues thing or a gender thing. I *am* currently looking for a gender therapist, but we live in a severely rural, severely southern area and it's proving difficult. She sees a regular therapist but...I don't think she's equipped to discuss it.

Body issues and gender are often connected.  Some of us have severe dysphoria regarding our bodies and some of us less.

There are therapists who do consultations by either Skype or by phone for those in areas where a gender therapist isn't available.

[Jacqueline]

ohmcgee,

If there has been this change recently, there may be more changes. This is not always the truth. I feel as though many people starting to come to a realization and then acceptance of being trans, experience a increase in symptoms attributed to dysphoria. So while I am not saying it will happen, it might.

As BererlyAnn mentioned, many of us have body issues or self perceived, body issues. I know I have had them for years(not really overweight at the time and supposedly an attractive man). It sort of all became clear once I realized and accepted what was going on. I am not presenting and out at work so similarly dressing the assigned at birth role. I have been on hormone therapy for about 6 months and already doing better. I still have days where triggers will send me off and it is often to do with hair(growing in the wrong spots and not growing in the right ones).

So, there's my tangent for you. (sorry)

I hope this issue gets tackled for your family soon.

With warmth,

Joanna

[Berserk]

You know, about periods, that's been a weird thing. Before any of this even arose, before she even hit puberty, I was SO AFRAID she was going to freak out. But she didn't? I sat down and explained why it happened (basically: so your body can make babies one day, to which she said: "Okay. But what if I don't want to have babies? Can I just...skip it? Heh. If only.) and I showed her what to do and...it hasn't been a big thing. She never really complains about that at all.

The only thing she truly complains about is her chest and at first, of course, I just tried to help her become comfortable with her body and understand why she didn't like this part of herself: did someone touch her, did someone say something to make her uncomfortable? And it always comes back to this dirty little comment another 12 year old said. Not to her specifically, but about another girl. Also after she started 6th grade/puberty she started freaking out that her shorts were "too short." I mean. I literally bought her mom shorts because that's what she picked out at the store. They were most certainly not daisy dukes of any kind, but she said they make her uncomfortable because they "show off her butt."  SO as you can see, I'm confused as if I'm dealing with a body issues thing or a gender thing. I *am* currently looking for a gender therapist, but we live in a severely rural, severely southern area and it's proving difficult. She sees a regular therapist but...I don't think she's equipped to discuss it.

Anyway, I've went on another tangent. Thank you for all of your support and advice!

I'm not sure if you're still checking this thread, but thought I'd post just in case cause I didn't see anyone else make mention it. Its possible your child could be a trans guy or genderqueer or something like that. But as I also don't know you're child's sexual orientation I'll also mention (as someone who comes from the butch/femme community) that what you're describing about breast dysphoria is not necessarily unheard of for butches (of various identities, since not all butches necessarily identify as lesbians or women for that matter) to feel this way. Though I'm a trans guys, I noticed when I got my top surgery a few years back here in Toronto my surgeon seemed more open to providing the surgery to female assigned people who weren't male identified (gender queer, or butch) as well as trans guys, and I've also certainly met butches who despite identifying as female or women wish they could either get a breast reduction or totally do away with their breasts, which is totally legit too. It could be that your child is experiencing this as well. I think in general its up for your child to figure it out, and its great that you're being so supportive in that process. But I would say make sure your child knows that breast dysphoria doesn't necessarily = trans guy. The more a person knows with this sort of thing, the better a person can really come to understand themselves, their identity, how they feel about their own body etc.

Best of luck!

[JoanneB]

SO. If you were amazing enough to read that entire wall of text basically what I'm asking is, has anyone else had a teenager girl go through this? I honestly, HONESTLY have no problem with having a transgender child. However, I don't feel like that's exactly what's going on. Or -- I don't feel that she feels that she is a male in a female body. I definitely believe she is outside the gender binary. But I feel as a teenager going through puberty she is seeing things in black and white and thinks that becoming a boy will make her life better.  Does anyone have any thoughts/experience on this/advice?

Also I just don't know what to do about her dysphoria with her breasts....

Help? 

For starters look for a local chapter of PFLAG, Parents and Friends of Lesbians & Gays. Most(?) tend to have a decent TG support system as well. You are far from alone. Here in NJ the Jersey shore area chapter even has a separate TG support group night as well as a separate Parents only group. TBH-many parents have a difficult time coming to grips with the whole TG thing. Well.... any non-TG has a hard time understanding. Just the way it is. We all do different things to cope/deny or avoid dealing with it.

They can also assist in giving you leads on therapists in the area that deal with TG, especially experienced with  adolescents. As you may recall those (non) halcyon days of your youth, life is really crazy. Seems even more intense now for today's teens

A small antecedent  on the breasts. Seems like one of the great FTM cosmic ironies is many I have met of know of have/had very large breasts early on.