Unsure

[Deborah]

I hope not.  Even if things are bad right now having a place where someone will listen can be a big help.  I know from experience that being all alone with nobody sympathetic can lead to a deep downward spiral.

So, Cathy, if you are still reading just know that many have been where you are now.  We understand and do not want you to leave. 

[Bob Wascathy]

Thank you all. I really don't feel worthy.

My dysphoria comes and goes but the feelings of self loathing are always there. Some days I just want to die.

I've sat and typed out long diatribes over the last 30 minutes, all of which I've deleted because every time I've posted stuff like that before I've been accused of wallowing in self pity.

I've read other people's stories, and feel humble by comparison at their strength and courage. I can't even say "no" to my wife.

I don't know what to do, I can't see a way out and I'm paralysed by fear. I've already walked away from one marriage with little more than a carload of clothes and books and £30k of debt, which took me 9 years to escape from. A fact of which my wife constantly reminds me. I'm useless as a husband, father and provider.

From another forum;

Oh dear... You are getting resigned to your situation instead of trying to improve it. That's not really a good approach is it?
People only get annoyed when you get so negative and just shrug off helpful suggestions instead of, at least, giving them some serious thought or even trying them and reporting back on the result. How much you post has nothing to do with it. It's a self-defeating circle.
You feel bad, post about feeling bad, get helpful suggestions, ignore them because you don't feel that you're capable of carrying them out, feel worse and loop back to the beginning again. That's not a good place to be.

Come on, you're a respectable, intelligent person. You can see what's happening just as easily as I can. If you don't fight for your own corner then sure as anything no-one else will and you'll stay in the downward spiral that keeps you depressed. Some of the others, the ones that you feel are not being nice to you, have got to the point where they say "You have the problem, we've tried to help. Take some advice and sort yourself out now or stay as you are - we don't care any more". Don't you think they might have a point? What more can you ask or they do?

Enough said.

[Deborah]

I've been there, paralyzed by fear, not so long ago.  It took me to the brink of suicide because I was all alone with it.    I'll bet others here could say the same. 

That's why we care.  Because we know exactly how you feel!

[Dena]

Most of us have a bump in the road that we need help getting over. Mine was different than most as I was an early transitioner and access to resources cost me years to run down. In your case it's fear. You aren't the first or only one to face fear but at some point you will push it aside and start making progress. The question is will you want to do it now or do you want to reenter the closet for a few more years before your discomfort becomes so great it forces you forward. We will help you now or then, the decision is your. If you wish to start now, what is it you fear.

If you don't wish to address it here, a good totally reversible solution would be for you to see a gender therapist but the only way to stop the hurting is to address the problem. Either way, stay with us because we don't give up easy.

[Steph Eigen]

Thank heavens, your here Cathy!  I am relieved you are back.  Please stay with us.

I will repeat what I wrote above.  Forget your prior experiences on other forums when here.  This is a different day with different people having a quite different outlook.  The quotation you offer from another site is not "enough said." 

No need to repeat the prior posts in the thread.  I encourage you to reread what has been written in this thread to you, considering it carefully.  None of us would take the time to spend trying to help if we did not genuinely care.  All of us have lives and other obligations but see the value this site has brought to our individual lives, hoping to reciprocate by returning something to the community of like-minded (or similarly troubled) souls.  You are worth it!

At some point, you will benefit from seeking formal counseling, probably sooner rather than later given the depth of your despair and sense of hopelessness.  You may require antidepressants other drug therapy to relieve the sense of paralysis  by fear and sense of futility in order to address the substance of your problems in a meaningful way. 

From your earlier comments, I am assuming you are in the UK.  The NHS should be able to provide for this need.  This site, as much as we DO care is not a substitute for professional medical and psychological care.

Please stay engaged with us here.  DO NOT APOLOGIZE for cathartic posts when you feel you need to vent or seek connection with a friendly listener who will  offer some modicum of reassurance of comfort in a tough time. 

Please stop declaring yourself unworthy of our time.  This statement  is obviously incorrect  to the point of nearly insulting.  It implies we are collectively lacking judgement, insight or simply too stupid to ignore you by responding to your posts!  This is not the case as I assure you, there are  very intelligent, compassionate, empathetic, insightful people here. 

Perhaps you are the one in error...  did you ever consider that possibility?  Perhaps we see something you cannot in your despair.  What do wee see?  A worthy soul suffering with a difficult situation we all genuinely understand and have personally experienced.  Someone we would like to call a friend.

[Michelle_P]

Oof.  Cathy, from that post you quoted 'from another forum', I'd say you were dealing with someone a little more self-centered than the Susan's Place folks.  I think most of us have seen folks like that before, and know not to take them seriously, but when someone 'walks away' on you when you are feeling vulnerable, it can hurt.

I don't think most folks here are like that.  We really do hear your pain, and many of us, myself included, have been in similar situations, and either have been or are currently getting out of them.  (I'm one of those, and am trying to spiral out of a bad place by pressing on the 'house rules' to express myself more.)

We can help, if you just stick around and give us a chance!

We're folks who care about others, including you, Cathy!

[aaajjj55]

Dear Cathy

Glad you're still here!  I endorse what the others have said and, let's face it, if any of us tire of reading your thoughts, we can just stop reading - there are plenty of others in this community ready to dip in and try to help.  Anyway, I'm not tiring and will continue to offer my thoughts to you.

With this in mind, someone I know called 'Dave' (obviously not his/my real name!) would like to offer some thoughts and advice to 'Bob' and so I've let him hijack the rest of this posting.

Look after yourself,

Amanda


Dear 'Bob'

Like you, I suffer from gender dysphoria.  Like yours, mine comes and goes.  In my case, when it comes I have this all consuming yearning to be like Carol Vorderman [UK TV personality/maths genius (genetic female) in her mid 50s who underwent a stunning transformation through well publicised cosmetic surgery a few years ago].  But here's the funny thing - even if my family came to me and said 'you really should become the woman of your dreams', even if I could be 100% certain that surgery would turn me into Carol Vorderman's twin sister (let's call her Amanda Vorderman!), even if I could be certain that I would fit perfectly into my new world I really don't think I would go ahead.  Why?  Because my dysphoria isn't that clear cut - sometimes I like being a husband and father and what I really wish for is unattainable - to have been born female.  You, I and many of the other wonderful people in this community have been dealt a bad hand in life which we just have to cope with as best we can - if what you feel to be unburdening your problems on others on this site helps you, that's fine by me.

But I think there's an even more fundamental issue at play here.  Let's push any feelings of dysphoria to one side - in other words you don't feel, and have never felt, the need/desire to be female.  Would your life be significantly better?  Would you be enjoying an idyllic marriage with your current wife?  Or is the reality that you would continue to feel bullied, put down and a general failure?  A marriage is supposed to be an equal partnership and I once read what I think is a great definition of 'love' - caring about someone else more than you care about yourself - unless I misread the situation this is not a feature in your wife's construct of your marriage.  However, this is not a healthy state for you to be in, particularly as it affects you emotionally so badly.  I'm not a qualified counsellor, therapist, psychologist, psychiatrist or anything else that's relevant here but what I can see is that if you don't do something to help yourself, you'll sink further into the pit of despair and/or have a full scale nervous breakdown. 

Please go and see your GP, you don't need to tell them about your dysphoria if you don't want to but you need to tell them about the desparation you're feeling; remember that they are not allowed, by law, to repeat what you've said to anyone else so it will be a safe haven for you.  You could also try 'Relate' [UK marriage guidance scheme] - you don't have to go as a couple but if your wife wants to commit to save/recover the marriage, she'd be foolish not to go.

I sense that you're worried about the breakup of your marriage firstly for financial reasons and secondly because you could lose your daughter.  You obviously have prior experience of marriage breakup and I'm sure that your wife would put up a pretty dirty fight but that in itself does not mean that your situation would be compromised and certainly would not mean that you would lose your daughter (particularly as the UK has pretty robust anti-discrimination laws in this respect).  What I can see though is that you're in danger of consigning yourself to a miserable existence where the choice is either to do what your wife says and feel trapped or fight back and unleash further hostilities.  I think your way forward boils down to a simple question - do you want to live the rest of your life with this woman?  If you do, then you both need to find a way to make it work; if you don't then you have to start unravelling things and I do sense, from the way you have described her behaviour, that she has far more to lose than you.

So 'Bob', that's my man to man view of things.  Please get some help in the 'real' world - at worst it's going to help you sort out the jumble of feelings and emotions that are crippling you and, you never know, it may make your life a whole lot better.

'Dave'

[Bob Wascathy]

Thank you all for your replies.

I've already tried counselling, and antidepressants... the former left me even more confused, the latter just left me feeling empty. I have tried so many times to sort my head out by various means, the main thing now which keeps me together is keeping busy...

I felt under pressure all my life to be "A Man", to do the "work/marriage/family" thing. But deep inside there's always been this resentment, the feelings bubbling under. Some days they are stronger than others.

At school, I was treated with contempt by boys and girls alike, with one exception... a girl called Cathy who was a couple of years above me, but she was gorgeous, had the loveliest eyes I've ever seen in a human being, she was so kind and actually talked to me without spite or malice in her voice. I didn't want to be an object of derision, and so I tried so hard to do what people wanted, to comply, I knew they were making fun of me much of the time but, if they'd like me, maybe it was worth it... they never did though.

Same I suppose with relationships. My first wife was the first female who actually took an interest in me... it all changed when we bought a house together though, almost as though she had got what she wanted and could stop trying. That lasted 15 years... I discovered in 2000 that she was seeing other men, but I carried on regardless through fear of being alone. I discovered later on that my own sister knew and never told me. That discovery also put my "crossdressing" activities on hiatus, after finding semen stains in her underwear I couldn't bring myself to wear her clothes... left her for my current wife, once again it all started off nicely, this time it all went pear shaped when she got pregnant, I think by that time she had sussed out that with a child to provide for, I wouldn't go anywhere and she could get her own way again.

So here I am, paralysed by fear, whenever I've tried to get help it either hasn't helped or left me even worse off... after my experiences on other TG fora, and on Facebook, I still can't quite get to grips with the difference here. The post quoted in my last post isn't unique, it's typical of the sort of reaction I've received in the past.

[Steph Eigen]

Cathy,
I will write more later, limited time available to me at the moment.  Two main observations: first, as has been stated again and again, it's a new day, different people, different forum.  Stop wallowing in bad experiences past.  Easy for me to say is surely what you're thinking, but it is the first step to implement.  Let us try to help.  Don't drop off the forum.  Stay with us on this thread.  Second, even if you feel you've failed to find benefit in the past from medications or counseling/psychotherapy.  You only truly fail when you cease to make an effort.  Stay with it, try a new therapist or a different medication.  Do not cease trying to move forward to a better place.

I know this will also be difficult to consider but think through your current life situation carefully.  It seems you have had one catastrophically failed marriage now followed by a second well on its way to failure.  All this in the setting of your personal and mental situation on disarray.  Perhaps you should consider getting your own situation straightened out first, if necessary separating from your wife until things arrive at a more favorable equilibrium, possibly ending this marriage if to toxic to salvage.  I have no doubt this seems a insurmountable task to take on at thepresent time but as Amanda pointed out earlier, you might be in more of a situation of control than you realize with her losses probably greater than yours if you were to leave. 

Until you control or escape the toxic marriage and hegemony imposed by your wife, it will be difficult for you to make progress.  Once again, this will need ongoing effort on your part to muster support from professional therapists and possibly medications.  While we will be here for moral support; Susan's, Facebook, other fora are no substitute for the core professional interventions.

So, trust us knowing we will not insult you, belittle you or complain about wasted time.  On the other hand, I fear for you if you do not extract yourself at least mentally from your current home and family situation. You need professional to help you navigate these waters. 




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AnxietyDisord3r]

I second what Steph said. Not all therapists are created equal. Sometimes you have to try a few out before you find one that helps you. Some therapists like to dig up the past and the sessions can leave you more upset than when you started. Sometimes this is therapeutic in the long run but sometimes not. Sometimes you just need someone in your corner, someone supportive who will also gently point out when you're not being honest with yourself. I've gone to see therapists many different times and they were all different. So I would definitely give it a shot again. You're at a point where you feel quite helpless.

If you hated the drugs maybe have them try something in a different class. I'm going to assume you had an SSRI. I found that Lithium was pretty good at treating depression without suppressing my emotions. I've also more recently been on Latuda and while it has annoying side effects it's absolutely nothing like being on an SSRI. See if you can find a provider willing to try something outside of the SSRI class. You may need that extra help just to cope. Psychiatric drugs shouldn't make you feel worse. If they do, it's the wrong drug for you.

[Steph Eigen]

Please take our advice on this one.  Particularly on the therapist selection and 'flavor' of psychotherapeutic methodology, you need to clarify and reinforce immediate goals to stabilize your acute situation.  Usually this is achieved using cognitive behavioral therapy and plain old pragmatic problem solving.  In other words, giving you immediate term coping mechanisms and problem solving means to extract yourself from the situation you find yourself in now leading to your sense of hopelessness and paralysis.

Consider us on this forum to be friends offering support and perhaps some of the functions of a group therapy session on demand and with a global representation of knowledgable members who have insight from traveling a similar path.

Repetition is good:  I will repeat the high points of our collective advice to you.  (1) Seek professional help until you find the right people who will be able to help you.  (2) Find the right drugs that will stabilize the acute symptoms do you can adequately cope and begin the process of extricating yourself from your current toxic situation.  (3) Do not let your wife intimidate you as you probably have more power to control the situation than she will allow you to recognize.  (4) Stay engaged with people who actually care about you on this forum.


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[Bob Wascathy]

I second what Steph said. Not all therapists are created equal. Sometimes you have to try a few out before you find one that helps you. Some therapists like to dig up the past and the sessions can leave you more upset than when you started. Sometimes this is therapeutic in the long run but sometimes not. Sometimes you just need someone in your corner, someone supportive who will also gently point out when you're not being honest with yourself. I've gone to see therapists many different times and they were all different. So I would definitely give it a shot again. You're at a point where you feel quite helpless.

The one I saw definitely fell into the "leaving me more upset" category. I felt that I should have known how to cope but I didn't... At some stage I'm going to contact the local LGBT centre to see if they can recommend someone, but their opening hours are limited and I'm dependent on getting a bit of privacy at work. I'll do it though.

If you hated the drugs maybe have them try something in a different class. I'm going to assume you had an SSRI. I found that Lithium was pretty good at treating depression without suppressing my emotions. I've also more recently been on Latuda and while it has annoying side effects it's absolutely nothing like being on an SSRI. See if you can find a provider willing to try something outside of the SSRI class. You may need that extra help just to cope. Psychiatric drugs shouldn't make you feel worse. If they do, it's the wrong drug for you.

First lot I had were fluoxetine, they just made me feel empty... I've always loved music, but on those I lost the ability to enjoy it... I also gained weight which I had been battling to lose. I went back to my GP who changed me onto Citalopram, they helped a little initially but after a couple of months I started suffering from insomnia, headaches and impotence. I've tried to manage without for the last 12 months, but evidently not very well...

[Steph Eigen]

Fluoxetine is an SSRI and loss of enjoyment as well as flattening of affect is a well known side effect of the members of this class of antidepressants.  One psychiatrist friend of mine calls it "Prozac poop-out."  There are several other potentially useful classes of drug that may offer you benefit without intolerable side effects.  Understand that to a large extent this is a trial and error process based on thoughtful initial educated guesses.  If you GP cannot make any headway with you, you are going to need a psychiatrist who benefits from more nuanced understanding of the drugs as bioader experience with their use.

[Bob Wascathy]

I'm going to try to get in to see my GP next week, been on call this week so I'm reluctant to make any appointments for fear of having to cancel them. I've been overwhelmed by feelings of hopelessness for the past few days, going through one of those phases where everywhere I look, I see stuff that needs to be done and nobody else is going to do it... I'm under pressure at work and at home and just don't feel that I'm coping very well. And the dysphoria is high at the moment too... Got out of bed this morning, saw that lardy middle aged bloke staring back at me again... got to the station to catch the train to a meeting in London and I seem to be surrounded by women, and the old feelings of inadequacy have risen because, deep down, I know I'll never be like them.

[Steph Eigen]

Cathy,

I'm sorry I have only a few minutes to write this AM.  I will write more later when I have some time. 

I'm glad you are taking this step to see your GP.  Keep in mind what has been said earlier in this thread, specifically, that you may need trials of different medications until you find what works and very likely under the care of a psychiatrist who would have far  more experience with these drugs.

The key is getting the disabling symptoms under control with medications then proceeding onward with therapy once your mind is clearer to make real changes in your life. 

Don't lose your nerve!  You've got friends here who will try to lift you up when you are down, give you a nudge forward when you need it, gently call you out if you stray from your path toward progress, where ever that leads you.

FInally, don't compare yourself to the multitude on the train or the streets.  You are you.  You need to become the best version of you you can be.  This is all any human can strive to be.  Life is a constant set of disappointments and frustrations for people who use some arbitrary external reference point as a touchstone for personal worth or achievement.  This is one of the hardest lesson to learn, one that many fail to learn in a entire lifetime. 

Let us know how your visit with your physician goes today.

Steph

[aaajjj55]

Cathy

Good to see that you're making positive moves but please make sure you make that appointment with your GP - I'm sure you'll be able to find 101 reasons not to but, as many of us have already said, you do need professional help and this is your opportunity.

Also, don't get too hung up on the 'lardy bloke' image of yourself and don't get too hung up on trying to mentally compete with the women you see.  If you do decide to fully transition, hormones and excercise will help a lot, as will surgery if you wish - if you need any convincing, just look at the before and afters on this site and on others such as YouTube and FFS practitioner sites.  Some of the ladies are stunning but most just look like ordinary women.  After all, what the aim really is here is to be able to look in the mirror and feel comfortable with the person looking back and to be accepted for who you are by the rest of the world.  Beauty (whatever that means) may be a bonus if that's important to you but is not a prerequisite.

As regards your heightened dysphoria, from my own experience, it is possible that your situation at home and diminished self-image is a major cause and being able to take more control of these will help you more easily live with it particularly if your dysphoria centres on a craving for the female lifestyle (what Dena referred to as 'social dysphoria' in a response to a post I made a few weeks ago) rather than 'female in a male body' (body dysphoria). 

Once again, do make sure that you make that appointment with your GP and make sure that you get a referral to a therapist before you leave.

Good luck,

Amanda

[Bob Wascathy]

Last week the dysphoria was particularly strong. Every day I get out of bed and see an uninspiring fat middle aged bloke staring at me from the mirror. Last Friday I got to the station to catch a train to London for a meeting and everywhere I looked there were women. And I know that I can never be like them.

I made the mistake of posting on another forum and one of the replies made me feel so tiny...

It's your choice Cathy, we can't do this for you, get some courage up and do something or carry on being in a world of xxxx. Do you somehow enjoy being like this? I'm trying to sort out some kind of accommodation that's better than living on a rubbish dump for a Trans girl in Pakistan who's HIV positive, her family have disowned her as well. She still has fight and courage in her when she's facing a slow death sentence, please find some courage as well.

If I could give up my life to help this poor kid I would. I just feel so small and useless. I've wasted my life and I'm too weak to do anything about it. It's made me reconsider everything again, and maybe I really should put up or shut up. Or maybe I am just attention seeking, maybe I do enjoy it subconsciously... I just don't know any more.

[Deborah]

What you are feeling is quite natural.  I experienced the same feeling for many years.

I stood in a dark and lonely place and having heard of a place of light, wanted to journey there.  But the path seemed perilous, winding its way through a fog filled valley where the vision ahead was limited to a few feet.  I had heard that monsters lurked in that fog.  My imagination elevated those monsters to mighty beasts who lay waiting to tear me apart if I ever set foot in their domain.  For a long long time I stood there, wanting to journey forth, but fearing the beasts too much to take a step.  Finally the pain of existence in that dark and lonely place became to much to bear and with pain overriding fear, I took the first step.  As I journeyed forth I did encounter the monsters.  But the imagined fiery dragons turned out to be no more than mongrel rats that were easily kicked aside.  Sometimes, if I listen closely, I can hear the roar of a dragon in the distance.  They are real, but they are few and easily avoided with some care in choosing my steps.  The journey continues and the fog is thinning.  Soon I will step into the light.

[Jacqueline]

I am with Deborah and you on this. I remember thinking that I wished I could just give the good I had to help someone like they describe. Someone who deserves it:

It's your choice Cathy, we can't do this for you, get some courage up and do something or carry on being in a world of xxxx. Do you somehow enjoy being like this? I'm trying to sort out some kind of accommodation that's better than living on a rubbish dump for a Trans girl in Pakistan who's HIV positive, her family have disowned her as well. She still has fight and courage in her when she's facing a slow death sentence, please find some courage as well.

They are kind of right, but not, at the same time. They are using tough love. I remember thinking about all the number of trans women who have been murdered or hurt for the past few years. I also remember thinking that my luck comes from being a caucasian but without the courage of those women. Then I realized my thought process (so does that from the other forum) has some faulty logic. I can have courage(doesn't mean I'm not afraid). Those ideas are kind of like the old argument from parents that a child should eat their dinner because there are children starving in XXXXX(fill in the blank). It may be true, but all it does make one feel guilty. Most of us are already dealing with shame or guilt of one kind or another.

I like how Deborah phrased "place of light". That is part of what is different for me now. I see that there can be light in one's life. I had not seen that before.

I will say, try to find some courage from all of the forums. Sometimes it is up to you. It is hard. So take a step, experience everything, evaluate, go to therapy. Allow yourself some time to feel down; live in it for a while and write down(or remember, record, whatever..) and share that in therapy. The goal is that soon the harder bits start shifting. It is still hard but you bounce back better(easier?, tough to put my finger on the right adjective). "Place of light". So take a deep breath, gulp back the terror & anxiety(till it is just fear and worry) and step toward the light that can be in your life. With more light, you can see where the monsters are and try to avoid them or where their chinks are...

With warmth,

Joanna

[Michelle_P]

Cathy, you're in a bad place right now.  But please know you're not the first, and you're not alone.  Many of us have shared this horrible experience.  We all started off taking one tiny step, but it may be the hardest step.  See your GP.  Tell them what's going on.  It's so important do do this.

That one small step toward the light will be a tremendous relief to you.  You may not see it yet, but many of us who have taken that step know what it feels like to release the burden of our lifelong secret and all the darkness and anxiety that come with it.

Please, take that step.  I know its frightening, but you'll be so proud of yourself if you do this.