Real Talk here I REALLY need some advice

[jessilynn]

Okay, I believe I spoke prematurely during my last post... (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,213113.msg1887645.html#msg1887645)

I recently got another shot, and it's amazing how quickly everything switches from hot to hotter.

I have really been struggling with myself as far as the Dysphoria. I need this surgery now more than ever.

I stated that my dysphoria has grown to the point where I am actually having trouble washing myself in the genital, which was NO lie. I have a spray bottle to clean myself, but I cant even look at that spot when I do it. And even THAT is starting to get hard to do because I think about it. (and trust me this post has me thinking about it... which is kinda increasing the dysphoric feeling)

I really am having trouble with my day to day life. It really is hindering my day to day life as my anxiety grows a bit.

I am really at a loss for what to do. And I REALLY need help. Like is this a thing? Does this actually happen to people?

My body fully does not match what I feel I am. And I have actually broken down in tears (even at work) because of it.

[JLT1]

Hi,

Yes, it is real.  There are many who have that same issue.  When you find yourself drifting inot that area, rink of something different.  When you wash that atea, imagine that it isn't yours. Somehow, distance yourself from that.

Higs,

Jen

[jessilynn]

Hi,

Yes, it is real.  There are many who have that same issue.  When you find yourself drifting inot that area, rink of something different.  When you wash that atea, imagine that it isn't yours. Somehow, distance yourself from that.

Higs,

Jen

I dont quite know what you mean by distance myself from it... I mean... I am dealing with this every day, and it's been going on for a while now, and just started getting to the point where I actually CRY when I take showers. When I DO wash the area, I have TRIED to tell myself it isnt really mine. That technique doesnt work for me. Because I know that it's there, and it's just getting much worse as the days creep by.

All I need to know is if there are any acceptions to the stupid WPATH stuff. Or if there is any way I can try to convince my therapist and endocrinologist to help me out here.

I mean I'm not that good at articulating words. I never have been

I am to the point where it all hinders my day to day life.

[LizK]

I dont quite know what you mean by distance myself from it... I mean... I am dealing with this every day, and it's been going on for a while now, and just started getting to the point where I actually CRY when I take showers. When I DO wash the area, I have TRIED to tell myself it isnt really mine. That technique doesnt work for me. Because I know that it's there, and it's just getting much worse as the days creep by.

All I need to know is if there are any acceptions to the stupid WPATH stuff. Or if there is any way I can try to convince my therapist and endocrinologist to help me out here.

I mean I'm not that good at articulating words. I never have been

I am to the point where it all hinders my day to day life.

I touch only when I have to, I never look if I can avoid it...push the whole lot to the back of my mind and refocus on something else...anything will do. My Dysphoria over my genitals has never been any different and I wanted to cut my penis off when I was about 10 or 11.

Mirrors also trigger me, so naked in the shower can be a bad combination. On my worst days I have seen it take me over two hours to have a shower because I keep avoiding getting naked.

It can be tough to get on with stuff and I hope you get some relief soon

Take care

Liz

[Rachel]

Hi,

I shave in the shower to avoid looking in the mirror.

My genitals are small and while on HRT have gotten a bit smaller. My gonads are in the canal most of the time, scrotum is small. My penis is small and almost 100% flush.  So that sounds good unless the material is used for GCS. I look at that material as donor material for GCS which is in November.

When I was at Dr. McGinn's She and separately Heather, when doing the local for genital hair clearings, and Chrystal, when doing the local for genital hair clearings, all said I am small and had little donor material.

When I was younger I did some genital mutilation due to not wanting the genitals. I caused some permanent damage and have scar tissue which was extremely painful when extract. Now I need the genitals for donor material. Odd how things turn as time goes by. 

Yes, the genitals are a source of pain but they will be the donor material. Sucks to have them but they are needed for later. Keep the donor material thought when you need to clean and keep the material healthy for later reuse. This is how I think of my genitals now.

Oh, a consult for GCS at Dr. McGinns is a 10 month wait and 4 months after that for the operation. So 1 year means you need to make progress now to find the right Doctor for you, have the paperwork ready for the consult, schedule a consult, have the consult and prepare for GCS.

[VeronicaLynn]

Okay, I believe I spoke prematurely during my last post... (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,213113.msg1887645.html#msg1887645)

I recently got another shot, and it's amazing how quickly everything switches from hot to hotter.

I have really been struggling with myself as far as the Dysphoria. I need this surgery now more than ever.

I stated that my dysphoria has grown to the point where I am actually having trouble washing myself in the genital, which was NO lie. I have a spray bottle to clean myself, but I cant even look at that spot when I do it. And even THAT is starting to get hard to do because I think about it. (and trust me this post has me thinking about it... which is kinda increasing the dysphoric feeling)

I really am having trouble with my day to day life. It really is hindering my day to day life as my anxiety grows a bit.

I am really at a loss for what to do. And I REALLY need help. Like is this a thing? Does this actually happen to people?

My body fully does not match what I feel I am. And I have actually broken down in tears (even at work) because of it.

It my be less of a thing for me, because I'm a good 50+ pounds overweight and can't see it unless I really try...I don't recommend gaining weight to achieve this, though maybe just close your eyes...What you physically feel though is pretty much the same as what cis-women feel when washing the similar area...I can get more graphic about this, but I'd rather not, still your nerve endings aren't all that much different than theirs...what they have isn't as different as some people make it out to be...

[jessilynn]

Thanks y'all... great advice. THOUGH! To those who are actually saying "Avoid it when you can" Sorry ladies... that gets REALLY tough I mean like to the point where I break down in tears in the shower at times. Because I DO have the constant reminders in my life from some closed minded people... "Oh! You're a man! you have a penis" though they can sit there and watch my body change.
But it's not only that. And I could get into an hour long therapy session of the reminders, triggers, and yadda, yadda... The only source I have for all this info is my Fiance, she has a private physician who actually helps her out on her path. My doctors just remind me of WPATH.

I actually had a bit of a break down yesterday stating how it doesnt belong there, and it should be gone, and I want it gone. I'm better today, but I know that will change once I hit the shower.

[SadieBlake]

I'm more on the fence than you, realized a bit after 40 that I was trans, mulled it a couple of years and decided that my abysmal prospects for passing - and especially for presenting as anything I could call attractive. Now, 15 years later it hasn't gone away and so I'm negotiating WPATH.

I think it would hurt more acutely if I was even close to passing, as it is I've made my choices and doing my best to be content with the pace towards the goal. That pace is accelerated at my request because my current insurance (via COBRA) is very generous but also ends in a bit under a year. My therapist is clearly concerned about my forcing the pace but she also understand.

I don't know 100% if I'll proceed to surgery. I've taken the last couple of weeks to go off HRT to see what it feels like, evaluate whether I could get by without it or if I'd be happier cycling between estrogen and testosterone. Just how negative my response has been has been a surprise.

Now I can tell you, I could convince myself that I am absolutely certain I want to proceed to GRS and even if I were only 99% certain I could surely weave a story to convince and meet WPATH. And my challenges with WPATH are a bit hard as I have no intention into ever pass and my year the means living as gender fluid.

I know the surgeons I want to go to are ok with this and I'm pretty sure everything will eventually align with my therapist. The insurance is unknown but I think ok as long as the rest comes together. Which still leaves me needing to afford being out of work long enough to recover from surgery.

I won't spin a story, my therapist has been a real rock for me and she's genuinely helping me figure the best path. I value that from her. She's also got no special experience with transgender so she's been playing things conservative and I'm not holding that against her. After 3 months of first finding a specialist for her to consult with (including the two of them taking two months playing 'phone tag), week after next I get to talk to this woman myself and I'm looking forward to this because I know her view is that the current WPATH is already outdated. So my hopes for letters recommending GRS to be forthcoming relatively soon are pretty high.

My major frustration... yeah I know WPATH is outdated and it's frustrating to work with, I also know that nobody I'm working with is being a gatekeeper, they've got my welfare in mind first and foremost, even the insurance people. They're also physicians and tend to run conservative so that's a part of it.

The frustrating thing for me is I'm not 100% sure, maybe 99% and yet I'm a scientist myself and i really can't say whether I feel what I do because of how my brain developed or my completely screwed (yes mods there are better adjectives) up upbringing. On that I'm more like 80:20. I'm 99% sure I will be happiest after GRS whichever the cause but I also know that I'm tailoring bthe process to try and know the best I can by the time I get to my surgery date.

And lastly, how does a therapist know for sure whether she's talking to you who are so certain or me who's less so. In my uncertainty I could choose to snow them I was 100% certain. I know there are transwomen who've done that because that's how WPATH operates.

To your question of can you jump start it - the current WPATH states RLE is necessary unless determined to be the wrong path by your medical team. Of course not everyone plays by the same book. My insurance guidance doc is clearly based on an older version of WPATH, stating during the RLE there must be "no returning to assigned gender".

[EmilyMK03]

As Rachel Lynn said, try to think of it as donor material.  You need the skin there in order to eventually get bottom surgery, so with that in mind, take care of it as best you can.  You are a rational, intelligent human being who can control her instincts and emotions, unlike wild animals.  You can do this.

[Sno]

In the end, it comes down to coping strategies I think, and experimentation to find something manageable whilst navigating the path of WPATH, which in many ways was set up to ensure that we are all fully aware of what we are doing, and not have major regrets.

So here's a little list of what works for me:
I run the shower hot! before I adjust the temperature down for bathing, I brush my teeth and use the conveniences. This allows me to undress, and be unable to see my reflection in the mirror (it gets steamed up ) this also means I shave in the shower by touch, which is fantastic at minimising 'missed bits'.

I try to keep sensation down for as much of the day as possible, so close fitting underwear, and careful positioning are the order of the day for me.

I always use the conveniences seated...

As a consequence the majority of sensation is deliberate, and cognisant, so when the alien sensations happen, I can write then down to my purpose - keeping clean and healthy. It doesn't make it pleasant, but makes it bearable for me.

I'm fortunate in many ways, in that I never sweat, but that's a seperate discussion, and I get triggered if I can smell that I am not clean (sorry for the tmi) to my standards.

However, I think everyone has different way of coping, as we are all so different...


Sno

[jessilynn]

I'm more on the fence than you, realized a bit after 40 that I was trans, mulled it a couple of years and decided that my abysmal prospects for passing - and especially for presenting as anything I could call attractive. Now, 15 years later it hasn't gone away and so I'm negotiating WPATH.

I think it would hurt more acutely if I was even close to passing, as it is I've made my choices and doing my best to be content with the pace towards the goal. That pace is accelerated at my request because my current insurance (via COBRA) is very generous but also ends in a bit under a year. My therapist is clearly concerned about my forcing the pace but she also understand.

I don't know 100% if I'll proceed to surgery. I've taken the last couple of weeks to go off HRT to see what it feels like, evaluate whether I could get by without it or if I'd be happier cycling between estrogen and testosterone. Just how negative my response has been has been a surprise.

Now I can tell you, I could convince myself that I am absolutely certain I want to proceed to GRS and even if I were only 99% certain I could surely weave a story to convince and meet WPATH. And my challenges with WPATH are a bit hard as I have no intention into ever pass and my year the means living as gender fluid.

I know the surgeons I want to go to are ok with this and I'm pretty sure everything will eventually align with my therapist. The insurance is unknown but I think ok as long as the rest comes together. Which still leaves me needing to afford being out of work long enough to recover from surgery.

I won't spin a story, my therapist has been a real rock for me and she's genuinely helping me figure the best path. I value that from her. She's also got no special experience with transgender so she's been playing things conservative and I'm not holding that against her. After 3 months of first finding a specialist for her to consult with (including the two of them taking two months playing 'phone tag), week after next I get to talk to this woman myself and I'm looking forward to this because I know her view is that the current WPATH is already outdated. So my hopes for letters recommending GRS to be forthcoming relatively soon are pretty high.

My major frustration... yeah I know WPATH is outdated and it's frustrating to work with, I also know that nobody I'm working with is being a gatekeeper, they've got my welfare in mind first and foremost, even the insurance people. They're also physicians and tend to run conservative so that's a part of it.

The frustrating thing for me is I'm not 100% sure, maybe 99% and yet I'm a scientist myself and i really can't say whether I feel what I do because of how my brain developed or my completely screwed (yes mods there are better adjectives) up upbringing. On that I'm more like 80:20. I'm 99% sure I will be happiest after GRS whichever the cause but I also know that I'm tailoring bthe process to try and know the best I can by the time I get to my surgery date.

And lastly, how does a therapist know for sure whether she's talking to you who are so certain or me who's less so. In my uncertainty I could choose to snow them I was 100% certain. I know there are transwomen who've done that because that's how WPATH operates.

To your question of can you jump start it - the current WPATH states RLE is necessary unless determined to be the wrong path by your medical team. Of course not everyone plays by the same book. My insurance guidance doc is clearly based on an older version of WPATH, stating during the RLE there must be "no returning to assigned gender".

Wow.... you know I felt you kinda compared yourself to me here... And you said "Well my problem is worse than yours." and quite frankly I dont like that. You dont know me, so how could you POSSIBLY know what is going through my head?

Everybody is different. Some people cope with things differently.

Sorry that I spoke up and needed advice!

(if you want to play the comparison card here)
And thank you very much... I've suffered from Dysphoria for A LOT LONGER THAN 15 YEARS. My parents caught me trying to take that thing off between my legs when I was just 6 years old!

[Beth Andrea]

Sounds like a panic or anxiety attack...talk to your Dr about your options for anti-anxiety medications. They have some for chronic anxiety (imagine 24/7 anxiety) as well as acute attacks (i.e., meeting someone for the first time, and panicking minutes before).

Properly dosed medications won't turn you into a zombie, if you have that concern.

[Sebby Michelango]

I can relate to the showering situation. Showering might be triggering, so I tries to avoid looking at myself and touching when I'm cleaning myself. I do rather staring in the ceiling. My mirror is very small, so I can only see my face in it. So that isn't so big problem. Usually I just let the water from the shower washing body parts which I hates without I touching it and hopes the parts gets clean enough anyway. I really hates when the water hits parts which is triggering for me. Feeling the water hitting spots is pretty much triggering. I do have a strong chest dysphoria. I doesn't have so much bottom dysphoria except when it's shark week.

Your dysphoria is real and most people who experience dysphoria struggle. It's common for many transgender people. Maybe you should talk with a gender specialist with the issues. Perhaps they have some solution that might help while you're waiting for SRS.

[SadieBlake]

Wow.... you know I felt you kinda compared yourself to me here... And you said "Well my problem is worse than yours." and quite frankly I dont like that. You dont know me, so how could you POSSIBLY know what is going through my head?
....
(if you want to play the comparison card here)
....

First, I'm sorry and apologize I put it in a way that felt critical, it wasn't my intent.

I don't I didn't and I wasn't playing "a comparison card".

I did relate that what I experience is different from you, I have different triggers. I almost wish I was in your shoes in the sense of having certainty. That's also not intended to minimize what you're feeling, you've been really clear about that and I accept it and was actually trying to help. That included relating how things are for me, else how would you know where my ideas are coming from?

I don't think I anywhere indicated that I think my experience has been any worse than yours. I did say

"I think it would hurt more acutely if I was even close to passing"

. What I meant by that is not passing is one of the things that makes me uncertain, I do wish I passed and what I was expressing was an thought that if I did, I might be more certain and hence feel a pain more like what you expressed.

I absolutely don't know what is in your head, you've been quite articulate about what you do feel but I don't take that as carte-blanche to make assumptions or project my experiences.

What I did offer by way of advice that you asked for is what little I know about the degrees to which WPATH has flexibility. I've had to look for that flexibility - probably for different reasons than you - but offered my reasons for needing that so you could know where I was coming from.

I also offered that I feel my therapist and the specialist I will start talking to next week aren't acting as obstructing gatekeepers - If I felt they were I would take a different approach. I do feel the pressure of dealing with WPATH very much but I would never intend to say to someone that my experience was worse than theirs is, again if that's how it read to you, I'm sorry.

As far as I know, my surgeon will have the final say and so his interpretation of WPATH counts but also my therapists' opinions, hopefully to be rendered soon in a letter are the ones he will rely on. Still, the insurance people being the ones who look most gatekeeperish worry me most and so I've done some anticipatory hoop-jumping to cover there.

I did also say that I can understand how a professional who's responsible for writing your letters hasn't got an easy job. I don't feel I have any sort of clear picture of what's going on there for you. My general picture is that you don't see eye to eye with them and I don't envy you that. While mine aren't giving me the answers I want, and I surely feel frustration about that, I think I'm clear that your conflict with that process is worse than mine and I feel a fair bit of empathy for you in that - albeit knowing that my experiences are quite different from yours. I very much take that to mean I don't understand and hence had no intention to judge.

Lastly, I'm again sorry that whatever I expressed sounded critical. I'm fairly far on the aspergers spectrum and so understanding people / speaking in a way that others hear what I mean doesn't always come easily.

sb