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An update on me...

Started by Michelle_P, October 15, 2016, 09:19:13 PM

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HappyMoni

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 07, 2018, 12:53:33 AM
I did my presentation on gender to that Open Women's Group.  It went well overall.

There were technical glitches, as in they put the presentation in the one room they had with no presentation equipment.  They did bring in a portable amplifier and microphone. I had packed along a flat screen display at least.  We needed to move a small table to the front of the room to hold the display and my MacBook Air.  And that's when it happened...

One of the women told the others, "I'll get this side and...", gesturing to me, "He'll get that end."

Hey!  Excuse me.  Person standing here with makeup, tan skirt and sleeveless top, hose and heels, conservative makeup is so NOT a "He." 

I looked at her.  "He?  Really?"   I lifted my skirt, pantyhose and ancient cameltoe in view.  "Do you see something I don't?"  She started blushing and stammering.  Another woman stepped up to help move the table.

That just ticked me off.  Here's a group that claims to be "woke', that likes to call themselves open and accepting.  I clearly look female, BUT, they know I am trans.  And I know a few other things...

I was annoyed to the point that I wrote a speech.  I don't know if it will ever be delivered.

Michelle, I thank you for sharing this and your response puts into words what I have felt many times as well. In my work situation, I always call out people who are close to me. It is the only way it gets up front in their thick skulls so they can adjust. My emotional reactions range from it not bothering me too much to being hurt and angry, depending on the day. Some people are so perfect with it, others suck.
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

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echo7

Did she know you from before you transitioned?  Even if you look and sound female, if someone initially knew you from your old life, they can still misgender you by accident. The human mind has a really difficult time changing its mental gender image of another person.
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Michelle_P

Thanks, everyone!  Let's see if I can cover all of this...

1) Nobody here knows be from before I started my transition.  I have only been Michelle, presenting as myself to everyone here.

2)  There are a few people who know I am a transgender woman but did not know me before transition, who when I am NOT present refer to me with male pronouns, and who try (and sometimes fail) to gender me correctly when they see I am present.  I don't consider them to be particularly accepting.

3) Oddly enough, the collection of conservative old males in that amateur radio club I was president of when I came out and went full time all knew me before, yet they have been absolutely flawless, nothing but gentlemen in handling this.

This particular incident was not aggression.  She simply slipped up, being distracted forgot to consciously replace the 'he' she uses for me elsewhere with 'she'.  Of course, I think we can all see the real problem there.

I have conducted a couple of presentations and a panel discussion with these folks in the past, and was there to conduct another presentation and Q&A session.   The congregation has supposedly been through the UUA Welcoming Congregations program, which provides training on basic politeness and background on LGBTQ people.

I have taken the approach Sadie mentions in the past, but honestly, after a year and a half of people in this group misgendering me, I feel more like I am enabling and excusing their behavior than improving the situation.

That 'speech' is just my venting my frustration with the situation.

Sometimes I think the old ways are the best, completing medical transition and then disappearing, resurfacing someplace where nobody knows us and just living our lives quietly, without rocking the boat or revealing our nature to the cispeople around us.   I hate to do that, but it may be the only thing that gets me treated as a 'real woman', rather than what they may think of me.
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Devlyn

I gently ask you to look inside and ask why their perception of you matters.  :)

Living your life for yourself is the greatest freedom. Living it for others, not so much.

Hugs, Devlyn
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echo7

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 07, 2018, 10:31:36 AM
Sometimes I think the old ways are the best, completing medical transition and then disappearing, resurfacing someplace where nobody knows us and just living our lives quietly, without rocking the boat or revealing our nature to the cispeople around us.   I hate to do that, but it may be the only thing that gets me treated as a 'real woman', rather than what they may think of me.

I agree.  It is really the only way to guarantee correct gendering, if that is important to you (and it sounds like it is).
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Michelle_P

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on April 07, 2018, 10:46:47 AM
I gently ask you to look inside and ask why their perception of you matters.  :)

Living your life for yourself is the greatest freedom. Living it for others, not so much.

Hugs, Devlyn

It's pretty easy, really.  I grew up as the freak, the outsider.  I was never the one who fit in.  I had no social life. It was extremely lonely, until i discovered the early hippie culture in San Francisco that accepted me for what I was.  I had that for a couple weekends a month for a year or so.

Since then, I got to spend a half century repressing myself, until I finally cracked a couple years ago. I'm out now, though, and would like to have a community that I can participate in, if only for my own sanity. 

I do not want a community that accepts my presence out of pity, or is trying to look good on paper by adding token marginalized peoples.   I can be a good contributor to community life, but would prefer not to be the token 'confused person', guy that likes women's clothes, or whatever they think I am.

See, we are talking about something that is core to my identity, and having others who I trusted with my experience casually deny it is hurtful to me.  I understand that other folks may not feel strongly about this, but I do, and I think that my feelings in this matter deserve some consideration.

Yes, of course I should live my life for myself.  I also recognize that I am a social being, and I need a strong sense of community, of belonging to something greater than myself.  This is just my nature.   Not all of us can be the strong loner, living without concern of what others think of us.

Yes, my desire for social connection and community may be viewed by some as my weakness, my failing, but I know it is quite real, and that lack of connection and community was the primary driving force behind my depression and suicide attempt.   I would rather not go through that again, if you please.

Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Michelle_P

I should mention that this incident was particularly bothersome as I was just about to start a presentation on gender, including the usual stuff, for a group of older women, and I thought I had my gender presentation pretty solidly together.

Being misgendered 60 seconds before starting a presentation on gender can be a little discomforting. 

My apologies if that bothers anyone here.
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Devlyn

I respect your feelings, I'm just trying to offer advice that you or others may find helpful.  :)

Quote"Sometimes I think the old ways are the best, completing medical transition and then disappearing, resurfacing someplace where nobody knows us and just living our lives quietly, without rocking the boat or revealing our nature to the cispeople around us.   I hate to do that, but it may be the only thing that gets me treated as a 'real woman', rather than what they may think of me."

I would ask "What is really gained there?" That is not acceptance, it is using the shelter of those around you not knowing. There is a difference, and it becomes acute when your new "accepting" acquaintances start the transphobic chatter. Do you stand silently? Does that make one feel accepted? Do you join in the transgender bashing? Several women here have stated they did, to preserve their stealth. Does that make one feel accepted?

I do speak from the position of not caring what others think. I'm just offering that perspective

Hugs, Devlyn

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Megan.

Michelle, it's horrible that people you should be able to trust most still make these errors,  and the timing sounds terrible [emoji853].

For all I know my friends, neighbours and work colleagues think I'm an utter wierdo (almost certain [emoji23]) I can't MAKE them think otherwise, and if I spent any more than the odd moment pondering on the matter I don't doubt it would drag me down, so I don't.

Let them think what they want. If they all treat you badly then you know these people are not your friends. If only a few do then time will see them excluded from the group, that's the way of things.

In the meantime I'll be me and happy with that, I hope you can find that place too. X

Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk

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HappyMoni

Michelle, I think people are well intentioned to tell you not to care what others think. Maybe some have a particular talent for that, and that is great. I personally don't have that skill. I don't say this disrespectfully to anyone, but no one can or should tell you how to feel. These are your feeling when something  like this happens. I relate to how you feel. I am a social animal as well. The very essence  of everything you have done in your transition was working toward being seen as who you really are. I don't get how that motivation can magically disappear and one day you say, well... "Good enough!" Your emotion is genuine, it is part of you, and you must handle it as Michelle does. It is not a perfect world and you will still have to deal with some level of trans related issues in your life. Only you know what that level is that you can accept. Each one of us has to make that call.
Moni
If I ever offend you, let me know. It's not what I am about.
"Never let the dark kill your light!"  (SailorMars)

HRT June 11, 2015. (new birthday) - FFS in late June 2016. (Dr. _____=Ugh!) - Full time June 18, 2016 (Yeah! finally) - GCS June 27, 2017. (McGinn=Yeah!) - Under Eye repair from FFS 8/17/17 - Nose surgery-November 20, 2017 (Dr. Papel=Yeah) - Hair Transplant on June 21, 2018 (Dr. Cooley-yeah) - Breast Augmentation on July 10, 2018 (Dr. Basner in Baltimore) - Removed bad scarring from FFS surgery near ears and hairline in August, 2018 (Dr. Papel) -Sept. 2018, starting a skin regiment on face with Retin A  April 2019 -repairing neck scar from FFS

]
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Anne Blake

Hi Michelle,

I have to say, I like your style! You have been able to say and do what I sometimes only wish I could do. But my own personal nature is to take the slap and sting, whether intentional or not, and humbly present a calm face or leave the room to hide the tears. Which way is best, there is no right answer. I can say that I can picture both the frustration and hopefully the satisfaction you felt as you lowered and straightened your skirt. You have some wild kind of class girl!

Tia Anne
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Michelle_P

Quote from: Anne Blake on April 07, 2018, 03:54:30 PM
Hi Michelle,

I have to say, I like your style! You have been able to say and do what I sometimes only wish I could do. But my own personal nature is to take the slap and sting, whether intentional or not, and humbly present a calm face or leave the room to hide the tears. Which way is best, there is no right answer. I can say that I can picture both the frustration and hopefully the satisfaction you felt as you lowered and straightened your skirt. You have some wild kind of class girl!

Tia Anne

Tia Anne, that is largely what I had been doing, aside from the occasional educational presentation.  I've been with this group of people, a religious congregation, for about 18 months now, and in that time have picked up on certain things.  I do know that at least two women refer to me as "he" when I am not around.  I know that they have a number of friends who are exposed to this.

I also know that there are several trans children with this congregation, which claims to be welcoming and accepting.  I want to ensure that the congregation treats trans and queer people respectfully.  There is a relatively high proportion of gay and lesbian persons in the congregation already, and I have not observed any problems in that area.  There may be an acceptance problem regarding trans and possibly queer people, from what I am observing.

In my opinion passively tolerating this acceptance problem, whether accidental or intentional, may be allowing or enabling harm.  A visitor to our services is unlikely to return if misgendered, as that demonstrably negates any literature or signs claiming this is a welcoming and accepting place.  The children are particularly at risk, particularly if intentionally bullied with misgendering.

I am pushing against this on several fronts.  Besides moving away from passively tolerating misgendering and related abusive behaviors, I am also bringing to the attention of oversight folks in the congregation the issues above as well as that the congregation has not formally renewed it's "Welcoming Congregation" status with the national organization, nor has it conducted the appropriate refresher courses (for 27 years!).

Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Michelle_P

Let me see...

Cookies. CHECK
Dark elixir.  CHECK
Gruel.  CHECK
Badgers... CHECK
eye bolts, leather straps, silk cord... CHECK

Looks like I'm ready for company...
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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sarah1972

You too are so cute together and I can tell that Laurie was all excited about this stop of her journey!! Enjoy you two lovebirds. This entire forum is rooting for you two!!

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 08, 2018, 04:50:57 PM
Let me see...

Cookies. CHECK
Dark elixir.  CHECK
Gruel.  CHECK
Badgers... CHECK
eye bolts, leather straps, silk cord... CHECK

Looks like I'm ready for company...

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Donna

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 08, 2018, 04:50:57 PM
Let me see...

Cookies. CHECK
Dark elixir.  CHECK
Gruel.  CHECK
Badgers... CHECK
eye bolts, leather straps, silk cord... CHECK

Looks like I'm ready for company...

Oh but are they ready for you. Lol too funny
December 2015 noticed strange feelings moving in
December 2016 started to understand what my body has been telling me all my life, started wearing a bra for comfort full time
Spiro and dutastricide 2017
Mid year 2017 Started dressing and going out shopping etc by myself
October T 14.8 / 456
Came out to my wife in December 2017
January 2018 dressing androgenes and still have face hair
Feb 2018 Dressing full time in female clothing out at work and to friends and family, clean shaven and make up
Living full time March 1 2018
March T 7.4 / 236
April 19th eligard injection, no more Testosterone
June 19th a brand new freshly trained HRT and transgender care doctor for me. Only a one day waiting list to become her patient 😍

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Michelle_P

Captured!




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Earth my body, water my blood, air my breath and fire my spirit.

My personal transition path included medical changes.  The path others take may require no medical intervention, or different care.  We each find our own path. I provide these dates for the curious.
Electrolysis - Hours in The Chair: 238 (8.5 were preparing for GCS, five clearings); On estradiol patch June 2016; Full-time Oct 22, 2016; GCS Oct 20, 2017; FFS Aug 28, 2018; Stage 2 labiaplasty revision and BA Feb 26, 2019
Michelle's personal blog and biography
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Jessica


"If you go out looking for friends, you are going to find they are very scarce.  If you go out to be a friend, you'll find them everywhere."


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Devlyn

Quote from: Michelle_P on April 08, 2018, 06:50:57 PM
Captured!




Nice! Glad you made it home, Laurie.

Hugs, Devlyn
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Kendra

Joy!  What great smiles - glad you are both there. 
Assigned male at birth 1963.  Decided I wanted to be a girl in 1971.  Laser 2014-16, electrolysis 2015-17, HRT 7/2017, GCS 1/2018, VFS 3/2018, FFS 5/2018, Labiaplasty & BA 7/2018. 
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Cassi

What's that word ya awl use???????  Squuuuuuuueeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee??????
HRT since 1/04/2018
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