shedding on spironolactone

[rejennyrated]

One of the things which few people seem to remember is that whist T can directly cause MPB hairloss E. also has its own effects, and they may not be helpful to hair already weakened by MPB.

When you get male pattern baldness what happens is that the hair follicle blood supply is basically clogged up by deposits of DHT causing the haro to weaken and die.

However estrogen causes hair to grow finer - male T pumped hair is coarser and has more body to it. Female hair is closer to the fine pre puberty hair that we all once had.

Now think what happens when a hair already in the early stages of being weakend by DHT deposits starts to revert to the fine female hair type. That's right - it becomes so weak that it breaks before it reaches any length!

And that folks is why in the early stages of HRT you may indeed get some additional hairloss. Sadly, in our current state of medical knowledge there isn't much that can be done other than to hope that it doesn't go too far.

[Muffin]

On average compared to the hair lost what is the percentage more of new hair or regained hair from being on HRT?

I'm sucking with words recently uuummm if you have say for example 50-100 hairs a day falling out to begin with (of the coarser T hair) and 80-120 a day falling out during the first year of HRT, considering all the new hair and follicles that have been reactivated. What amount of total hair would you on average be losing 2-3 years after beginning HRT?

Do you still on average come out with more hair then you ever had originally?

[rejennyrated]

The short answer is that there is no definitive answer.

All the E. does is stop MPB from progressing any further - so you will have more hair left because the progression has been halted.

The residual hair loss is just those hairs which had already gone beyond the point of no return so to speak, but because of the coarsening effect of the T. were just about clinging on. A bit like a drug addict whose body chemistry is so screwed up that they are now only being kept alive by the very thing which is slowly killing them!

As regards having more hair than you had originally no! You never actually gain hair by going onto female hormones. You just don't lose any more once the residual loss has stopped.

It is usually possible to bring some of the hair back form the dead by using DHT scavengers and other drugs like Rogaine and Finasteride. These clear the blocked blood supply to the follicles and can revive some of them, but for best results they need to be started right away.

On average Women have, if anything finer and thinner hair than a comparable male who is lucky enough to be unaffected by MPB.

Happily I have never had any hair loss myself. I know about all this because I read up on it when a very close friend of mine (no names no pack drill) at one stage had to use Rogaine to restore some of her thatch.

[Kay]

I think Jenny probably has the best explanation for this, along with Muffin's 'giving the body time to adjust to the new meds' comment.
. 
But as to the OPs original question:
I also had some difficulty the first 3 months of HRT with this.  I have a 'spot of difficuty' on my crown that can be difficult at times to cover.  While I didn't count hairs, I did notice that it seemed a bit more difficult to hide than usual after 3 months of HRT...and was kind of worried about continued hair loss. (Rogaine did nothing for me, so if HRT didn't stop the recession...I wasn't really sure what to do.) 
.
I'm now almost at the end of 5 months on HRT, and it seems to be a little better than it was 2 months ago.  The 'spot of difficulty' is still there, but it doesn't seem as difficult to cover.  While it's probably wishful thinking, there may be some small new growth there.    One can only hope.  Though, I did notice that when I changed my hair color from an undyed medium brown to a medium-auburn-brown...the lighter color makes the gaps more difficult to see...so that has probably helped too.
.

[Muffin]

[pic removed]

[Bam]

I just came off Spiro after 3 years(don't have anything to create any T anymore)and have a full head of long hair that went very fine during the process and have the sides of my peak have been slowly filling in the whole time. I have been on depo and progesterone for 3 years and oral before that.

[Adalovelace]

Sorry for the intrusion, new here and all, but I found this post interesting as I have been lurking the hairloss boards around like a spider in heat.

When you are changing the hormone balance in your body you can expect to see shedding to begin with. It is actually a part of every hair growth regiment out there. It is even said that the more you shed to begin with the increased chance you'll get more growth back as the follicles are now switching phases(anagen, telogen and whatever their name is). The reason a lot of men give up on their treatments is because they get scared because of the shedding, but if they were to just persevere it might actually have worked for them.

The simplest way to describe it is that your current hair, just like your current skin(before HRT) is built up on a body that is accustomed to a different hormone. When you switch over the hair also has to switch over and to many people's fear it is more visible than the skin you shed when it starts to align itself to a different hormone in the system. Remember that hair is a slow grower so if you want to see regrowth you won't see it in a month or two unless you're one of the lucky ones. Some regrowers didn't see regrowth until they had been doing stuff for a year or so.

I might also add that there are two types of estradiol(just like there are two types of DHT) and recent research has shown that the estradiol-beta can inhibit growth while the other one encourages it.

So if you're shedding you should only worry if it continues for months to years and there is no sign of it coming back(despite your actions). In that case there might be other problems like your thyroid, insulin resistance and more, and then your best choice would be to evaluate your diet and see if you're eating something that your body is intolerant to.

This is just a general description of what is going on on the hairloss forum. There is more, but these are the major highlights.

Also, if you want to try to speed growth there is currently some word that miconazole nitrate can boost hair growth. Both men and women have reported increased growth with it, but it doesn't seem to work for everyone. Note that Miconazole Nitrate is a fungi destroyer and there is hairloss associated to fungus growth in the scalp, but usually in children.

The rule of thumb that most hair growth companies go by is that you can more or less regrow hair if it hasn't been lost for more than 10 years. If it has been lost for longer you might have to go full retard and bring out the fringe stuff like dermarollers and scalp wounding. In these cases the follicles might have gone too far up the dermis due to the body dealing with it like a foreign object. However, I would never say hair is a completely lost cause since I've seen people do amazing things with the weirdest stuff. If nothing works then there  are several companies that are currently working on Phase II trials that might be an answer to everyone's bald issues(regardless of gender).

Sorry for barging in like that. I'm watching the hairloss forums too closely and when I saw I could maybe give some knowledge I decided to pitch in.

[lilacwoman]

i shed so much hair that I had to resort to $3500 hair transplants and still need more...pretty depressing to see the brush fill with hairs every morning no matter how gently I brushed my hair.

this seems an opportunity for a researcher to make a mark.

[Bam]

I am with Adalovelace while on spiro i lost a little hair at first and also took care of most of the body hair,have none under arms anymore,wife is jealous shave less than her.You have to remember that Spiro is also a anti-androgen,that is why we took it to begin with to take the maleness out of us till we had the surgery to take out the male parts and make them into woman parts!!!For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction sooooo when you start changing your bod from M to F there are reactions,some you may not like but the end of the journey is super as far as i am concerned.I wish all you ladies a great and rewarding journey!!!!

[Adalovelace]

I am with Adalovelace while on spiro i lost a little hair at first and also took care of most of the body hair,have none under arms anymore,wife is jealous shave less than her.You have to remember that Spiro is also a anti-androgen,that is why we took it to begin with to take the maleness out of us till we had the surgery to take out the male parts and make them into woman parts!!!For every action there is a equal and opposite reaction sooooo when you start changing your bod from M to F there are reactions,some you may not like but the end of the journey is super as far as i am concerned.I wish all you ladies a great and rewarding journey!!!!

Perseverance is the key and not only with this, but every aspect of life. 

Lilacwoman: Are you on HRT and still shedding? If spiro isn't doing anything you can try DHT blockers instead of testosterone blockers, see if that changes anything(although I admit that I doubt it changes much).

Your problem could also be related to something else within your system and therefore not alopecia androgenetica(male pattern baldness). Could be a thyroid issue or some allergy. The thing with hair is that it is often an early warning system for some other underlying problems in the system. You could check with your doctor although I've heard that a lot of doctors tend to go straight for the MBP answer even without taking a look at anything meaningful so make sure your doctor is willing to do some work.

[tunak]

WHen i had shorter hair, i didn't pay much attention on hair loss because its so short u can barely see the hairs that have fallen off. But as my hair got longer, i notice more and more about the hair that i lose, because they are longer and more noticeable... My sisters' hair falls off like crazy as well, but i think this have something to do on how long your hair is and stuff like that. I got a lil paranoid but i learned not to think much about it... as itll get worse because of stress and stuff. As for supplements, i take Cod Liver oil pills and that helps with hair, skin and eyes and all that fancy stuff. Avoid using shampoo everyday as this will dry out the hair, do use a conditioner often.