Need assistance with employment experiences both good and bad

[karenpayneoregon]

On November 7_th I will be a key speaker at Microsoft on the topic "Women in Tech". When first asked they wanted me to talk about females in tech. Now they are interested in expanding this topic to LGBT (which I was going to discuss anyways).

What I'm looking for are your experiences both good and bad on the following topics but not exclusive e.g. think of something else I want to hear it along with what area of employment.

• You come out as trans (pre-op) at a current employment, what were the reactions of the company and/or the supervisor
• In your current job after coming out you were demoted and or failed to get raises where they were given before you came out


• Applying for a position as the opposite gender but legally are not that gender. You did this without a current job or with a current job
• Applying for a position (post-op) did not reveal this fact and did not obtain the position with no reason given but was fully qualified for the position
• You lost your job or can't get a job because you are trans and had announced this to the place of employment
• You announced your intentions for gender surgery in one form or another and were denied time off or were let go

[karenpayneoregon]

The event was in my mind very successful. After we finished a handful of people came up to me and chatted all in a positive manner.

I was told Microsoft would do an interview with me which happened two days later, will post a link once they have uploaded the interview.

On my blog I received the following comment

Thank you for joining the forum on Sunday night Karen. The group I was with were all very impressed by your willingness to open up and share with the room.

The blog entry was to use as a simple resource for my part in the event.

[biannne]

Hi Karen,
I am so glad everything well great for you. But unfortunately your success and story is one of a rare one. In most cases when they find out, they are discriminating. Bigger companies like Apple, Intel and their managers will discriminate you in such away that it is almost impossible to pinpoint to a reason. So you wonder if it was due your transgender.
To completely unrelated story. I work for the largest semiconductor company in the world and when I first moved to Texas from NYC. I was treated differently simply because I was northerner. Now imagine if they find out I am transgender.

[Michelle_P]

Hi Karen,
I am so glad everything well great for you. But unfortunately your success and story is one of a rare one. In most cases when they find out, they are discriminating. Bigger companies like Apple, Intel and their managers will discriminate you in such away that it is almost impossible to pinpoint to a reason. So you wonder if it was due your transgender.
To completely unrelated story. I work for the largest semiconductor company in the world and when I first moved to Texas from NYC. I was treated differently simply because I was northerner. Now imagine if they find out I am transgender.

I know Apple is quite gender-variant friendly.  An associate transitioned there, and HR brought us in for a bit of diversity training to make darn sure it went smoothly.  I never heard of any issues for her transition.  Several other folks I knew of, but didn't work directly with also transitioned while I was there, but Deb was the one on my mind when I eventually had to make my change.  She was, in many ways, inspirational to me.

If anyone experiences problems with Apple, as an employee or interviewee, they should contact Apple HR with the experience ASAP.  Same goes for customers, contacting Apple Corporate with their experience.  Any hint of intolerance is not going to go over well.

[karenpayneoregon]

@Michelle_P I'm not surprised that Apple has this policy (and thanks for sharing), most leaders in technology understand that a transgender person may very well be good fit for a position no different than a cisgender candidate. Many companies are evaluating transgender people the same as cisgender people.

@biannne It's not a perfect world, and admittedly I may very well be a rare case but perhaps it's because of 1. I transitioned at my place of employment after 17 years of good service to the agency rather than coming in from the outside. Another factor was that I transitioned slowly e.g. place a frog in boiling water and it will, if possible jump out while slowly warming the water the frog most likely not notice its in trouble. With that said, I took it slow, wore female jeans to work for about two months, added female shoes for a month or two, had my nails done at an acceptable length with clear nail polish, another month or two my hair was indeed longer etc. So when I announced my transition and real life year nobody was shocked (well except for two people but they came around).
 

One thing I noticed this weekend while waiting to present a topic on street harassment at a local transgender event that the majority of the transgender attendees were dress to impress in a manner not complimentary and may have been because it was a casual event yet at the same time may be not. I see no issues with this but if they happen to do this in an interview it could be detrimental to obtaining a position. There were a handful that dressed to fit in and believe these people (many I talked too) would be gainfully employed and learned that they were indeed employed while many of the others were not employed. My point here is harassment can come from not simply being transgender but how a manager perceives that person as a possible issue were they cause concern in how they dress and disregard their actual talents. 

Bottom line is there is still issues across the country else we would not need to have events such as the inclusion event I spoke at or the event I spoke at this weekend.


   

[Raell]

Yes, Karen, I agree about dressing appropriately.

I have two transwomen friends, who are just starting to live as female at 60+ years old.
Unfortunately, they seem to think women dress like porn stars to go to the mailbox, and seem obsessed with spike five inch heels and outrageously revealing clothing, despite their height and weight.

I found that nothing I say influences them at all, even when I beg them to look at the cis women around them, including their wives, but they don't see it, keep bragging about finally getting to be like a woman and wear seven inch red nails.

[karenpayneoregon]

Hi Raell,

If you have tried multiple times and they don't heed your advice then there is not much you can do. Sadly this paints the wrong picture for those who are attempting to fit in and live a normal life.

[Lily Rose]

The event was in my mind very successful. After we finished a handful of people came up to me and chatted all in a positive manner.

   that is great and congratulations! i do look up to women like yourself. 

they seem to think women dress like porn stars to go to the mailbox,

  kinda get a laugh out of this. personally a pair of pink lace panties would go along way for me to feel like myself, but if someone says plain old cotton is the way to go. does that make me wrong? granted i would not walk to the mailbox in only said panties, but i say whatever floats their boat. can only assume if they get to vulgar the police will eventually show up.

[Raell]

What concerned me about the ladies who want to dress like porn stars is that their obsession is to "fit in" and be accepted by cis women. If they are simply doing what makes them happy, relieving dysphoria, or if they are in showbiz or the porn industry, those clothes would be appropriate, but probably only at work.

Another thing they did was to constantly buy extremely sexual Victoria's Secret undergarments and obsessively talk about it, even put pictures of these items on their Facebook pages, calling them "panties."

I don't know any cis women who obsess about lacy, revealing lingerie. Instead, they only wear such things to please their partners on special occasions, then switch back to comfortable cotton clothing. I have only heard men call women's underwear "panties."

Most of the way they talk about women's clothing and underwear is as though those things excite them. I don't know any cis women who are sexually aroused by underwear or clothing. It's just something they wear. Any racy clothing is worn simply to please romantic partners.

I no longer say anything to them, though. I'm going to assume their extreme behavior is from excitement at expressing themselves in a feminine way and that as they attend trans support groups, they will tone down a bit and be able to enter the mainstream.

[Michelle_P]

I think it might be the excitement and novelty of being a 'new girl' that produces this extreme behavior.  They finally feel free to be themselves, and after a long period of being repressed, they've shot out there and slightly missed the mark.

Eventually they may realize the dress and behavior isn't really appropriate and they'll settle down.  From what I've seen this phase doesn't last in most transgender folks beyond the infrequent cross-dressers.

[RobynD]

What concerned me about the ladies who want to dress like porn stars is that their obsession is to "fit in" and be accepted by cis women. If they are simply doing what makes them happy, relieving dysphoria, or if they are in showbiz or the porn industry, those clothes would be appropriate, but probably only at work.

Another thing they did was to constantly buy extremely sexual Victoria's Secret undergarments and obsessively talk about it, even put pictures of these items on their Facebook pages, calling them "panties."

I don't know any cis women who obsess about lacy, revealing lingerie. Instead, they only wear such things to please their partners on special occasions, then switch back to comfortable cotton clothing. I have only heard men call women's underwear "panties."

Most of the way they talk about women's clothing and underwear is as though those things excite them. I don't know any cis women who are sexually aroused by underwear or clothing. It's just something they wear. Any racy clothing is worn simply to please romantic partners.

I no longer say anything to them, though. I'm going to assume their extreme behavior is from excitement at expressing themselves in a feminine way and that as they attend trans support groups, they will tone down a bit and be able to enter the mainstream.

Agreed that we present a better face to the world when we blend in and do not present ourselves as a caricature of what it means to be a trans woman. But, i also support anyone's right to wear anything they want, that helps out their self esteem etc.

My choices may not be others, what i consider age appropriate may be way too old looking for some or young looking for others.

Btw, my CIS wife has always called them panties as do my two daughters. Maybe that is a geographic or cultural thing, and while she does not get sexual excitement out of what she wears necessarily, she understands what is sexy and how to look appealing to others and when she looks appealing, that in and of itself is a sexual feeling. (her and i have had that discussion many times)

I agree with you that those friends of yours may tone things down a bit once the novelty of all of the options available to them wears off and the reality of being a woman making her way through the world replaces it.

Also, sorry to send the thread more off focus. I think what Karen has done here is awesome! I wish i could have seen her presentation. Those of us that are willing and able, should take it as an example to be a positive example for others in the workplace.

I own the company where i work and it is a daily struggle to keep it going and keep our few employees employed but i wouldn't change it for the world. Even though i recently have not had a boss per se or peers to interact with in transition, i always tried to be considerate of the people here.

[Amy1988]

On November 7_th I will be a key speaker at Microsoft on the topic "Women in Tech". When first asked they wanted me to talk about females in tech. Now they are interested in expanding this topic to LGBT (which I was going to discuss anyways).

What I'm looking for are your experiences both good and bad on the following topics but not exclusive e.g. think of something else I want to hear it along with what area of employment.

• You come out as trans (pre-op) at a current employment, what were the reactions of the company and/or the supervisor
• In your current job after coming out you were demoted and or failed to get raises where they were given before you came out


• Applying for a position as the opposite gender but legally are not that gender. You did this without a current job or with a current job
• Applying for a position (post-op) did not reveal this fact and did not obtain the position with no reason given but was fully qualified for the position
• You lost your job or can't get a job because you are trans and had announced this to the place of employment
• You announced your intentions for gender surgery in one form or another and were denied time off or were let go

The company I work for is Swedish owned and global.  They have very good anti discrimination policy and so far I've been treated well.

[KarlMars]

The company I work for is Swedish owned and global.  They have very good anti discrimination policy and so far I've been treated well.

What company is that, Amy?