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Pictures: Do you think HRT would work well on my face?

Started by Cire, November 04, 2007, 05:21:16 PM

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Keira


I've seen plenty of TS at all ages who because of looks, behavior, vibe whatever ring false.

One thing I find funny. Younger TS are so cocky about how they look, pass, sound, etc. I think to mask their insecurity. At my age, I don't feel like masking them. When I ask them what kind of exposure they've got, I actually find they're much more insecure than me.
I meet with and talk hundreds of people a day for work and whatever. That's because I am gregarious and live in a dense urban setting.

Right now, I'm really putting myself out there. I'm in a public relations graduate level course and I every course is about debate and public speaking in front of a class of 20 women 10 men (in PR, there's a lot more women than men in University). So, I've got to speak on various subjects in front of people who are there to look at me every single week. The last assignment is assisting in the local PR launch for perfume and fashion line. They'll be journalists!!

I know, I'm skewing from the subject header. But, bear with me.


I wish other TS would put themselves in situation where they've got such a high risk of disclosure. I keep pushing myself and you know, the more I do, the more comfortable I am with myself. I love public speaking by the way (that's why I'm getting this graduate degree in PR to add to my engineering degree and graduate management degree).
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Rachael


Quote from: Cire on November 05, 2007, 12:21:09 PM
I'll be taking better pictures when I do lose some weight, and I'll see where I'm at.


While younger transitioners can stake their claim on improved results from HRT vs the older crowd, never forget that while you waited until after 18 to transition and have nearly 20 years of male upbringing to unlearn, there are more and more MtFs going full time in grade school or earlier.  Who has the better hand now?
i had a male upbringing, but i never had to unlearn a thing... my behaviour and personality is naturally female, id have gone ft in grade school, if my parents hadnt put me in an all boys school since 2... i simply couldnt learn to be male, it didnt matter weather i had been corrected the oposite way at birth, or transitioned at 20 it made no difference... SOME can go ft in school, it just depends on parents... and mine disowned me, i couldnt imagine being homless in my early teens...
R :police:


fixed quote - Nero
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Nero

Quote from: Rachael on November 08, 2007, 08:23:50 PM
Quote from: Cire on November 05, 2007, 12:21:09 PM
I'll be taking better pictures when I do lose some weight, and I'll see where I'm at.


While younger transitioners can stake their claim on improved results from HRT vs the older crowd, never forget that while you waited until after 18 to transition and have nearly 20 years of male upbringing to unlearn, there are more and more MtFs going full time in grade school or earlier.  Who has the better hand now?
i had a male upbringing, but i never had to unlearn a thing... my behaviour and personality is naturally female, id have gone ft in grade school, if my parents hadnt put me in an all boys school since 2... i simply couldnt learn to be male, it didnt matter weather i had been corrected the oposite way at birth, or transitioned at 20 it made no difference... SOME can go ft in school, it just depends on parents... and mine disowned me, i couldnt imagine being homless in my early teens...
R :police:

I concur completely with Rachael. Nature drowns nurture. The difference between someone who transitioned in grade school, and someone who transitioned in adulthood is that the former was spared years of anguish.
This isn't going to be true for everybody, of course.

I don't know if some TS have the condition more severely than others, or if it's personality differences, but some shed the wrong gender upbringing like snakeskin upon coming out, and some are too deeply ingrained in their birth sex to ever recover.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Autumn

Quote from: Berliegh on November 08, 2007, 08:26:22 AM
Quote from: Autumn on November 08, 2007, 03:34:22 AM
A lot of people don't post pictures because this is the internet.
This is a transexual message board on the internet.
And a lot of people with post-HRT successes are trying to not to be unmasked.

I don't think I'll ever post a facial shot here. Or anywhere connecting the two lives.
.....what is this two lives?


I've been on the internet a long time. I've met many people in RL, will so again in the future, and hang out in a few online communities. There are some places online where I use my real name and photograph (with no trans connection.) There's my adult site profile, which I should pull down since there's really no reason for its existence (it is TS however.) There's also my family. And coworkers.

I have no desire for my 'private life' and the rest to meet, particularly if it isn't me doing it.

Believe it or not, I'm not alone. Some people in the post-op and the pre-treatment camps feel the same way.
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Berliegh

Quote from: Nero on November 08, 2007, 09:04:01 PM

I concur completely with Rachael. Nature drowns nurture. The difference between someone who transitioned in grade school, and someone who transitioned in adulthood is that the former was spared years of anguish. This isn't going to be true for everybody, of course.

I don't know if some TS have the condition more severely than others, or if it's personality differences, but some shed the wrong gender upbringing like snakeskin upon coming out, and some are too deeply ingrained in their birth sex to ever recover.

I got my head kicked in most days at my london secondary school when I was 13 to 16. I came home with a split lip. facial cuts and covered in blood sometimes. Eight pairs of doctor martin boots kicking me in the head because they didn't like a feminine looking boy who looked like a girl. I was constantly challanged because of the way I looked and called 'girl'. It wasn't a pleasant experience. I also got bullied when I first started work at the age of 17...

I am still traumatised by my early years and it would have been much better for me to have transitioned in that period of my life. I could have moved schools and I could have had a better life. Insted I left school with no qualifications and a total agoraphobic..

I think things are easier these days and someone who is different is excepted far more easily that they would have been in the late 1970's.....
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Jillieann Rose

Thank everyone. This set of postings really helps. Oh and the avatar is a real picture of me. The best of about 30 shots.
I'm an over fifty and accord to what has been said here I will most likely always be seen as a man in a dress. I have slim to no chance to ever be on the outside what I am on the inside.
So I guess there is not much for us older TS people to look forward to.
Maybe we should just ............
Jillieann
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Rachael

um, if you actually read whats said here, instead of feeling hard done by... you might have noticed we said thats the steriotype... not the truth. just like all 20somethings arnt all babes...
relating hrt's effectiveness to age isnt suggesting it doesnt work for you. just that there is a sliding scale, which age effects in all things, fittness, fertility, healing rate...
so dont selectively read that were hating on old trans people because you want to feel hurt and hard done by.
R :police:
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Nero

Quote from: Nero on November 06, 2007, 02:18:58 PM
Quote from: Kate on November 06, 2007, 11:47:24 AM
Quote from: Berliegh on November 06, 2007, 11:33:57 AM
Age isn't an issue really, but if HRT worked efficiently why are there so many transsexuals around who look like blokes?

For that matter, I could ask, "if HRT is so inefficient, why are there so many transsexuals who look like ordinary women?"

It's not an IT WORKS FOR EVERYONE or IT DOESNT WORK FOR ANYONE sorta thing. It works well for some people, and barely at all for others. Predicting who'll benefit from it though seems impossible. Some older TSs respond well. Some younger ones don't. You just never know what's going to happen.

I just don't want anyone who's wrestling with the thoughts of a transition to read those rather bleak opinions (doesn't work when old, doesn't work for anyone anyway, etc.) and lose hope. Some people respond, some don't. There's just no way to know until you try.

~Kate~

I promised I wasn't going to post for a while...

I think it's more what you've got to work with beforehand than age. I've seen some really gorgeous, completely passable mature ladies and some really unpassable 20 somethings. A lot of it's bone structure.  Bones, facial shape, body, and age all factor into it.



Jillieann,

It's all a combination of the bolded above. All people have been saying here is that age IS a factor. Natal males continue to masculinize further their whole lives, so how could it not be? And hormones have a better effect the younger one is.
But there are other factors, too. Some more mature ladies do better than some younger ladies because of bone structure, body type, facial shape - genetics.
Don't be so quick to take offense.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Rachael

sometimes you feel you cant state the physically obvious, for fear of offending someone... ESPECIALLY on trans forums...
R :police:
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Kate

Quote from: Jillieann on November 09, 2007, 06:03:49 AM
So I guess there is not much for us older TS people to look forward to.

Jillieann, you look great NOW!

And ya know, no one really knows what HRT will do for them until they give it a year or three. People panic when they don't see immediate results and start dispairing "this will never work for me." But it takes time.

For what it's worth, four of the TSs in my support group *started* transitioning in their 50s and 60s. One in their late 40s. And they ALL are perfectly, totally passable. In fact, I'd say that the OLDEST one of the group looks absolutely perfect.

I believe my eyes more than any "evidence."

~Kate~
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Berliegh

Quote from: Jillieann on November 09, 2007, 06:03:49 AM
Thank everyone. This set of postings really helps. Oh and the avatar is a real picture of me. The best of about 30 shots.
I'm an over fifty and accord to what has been said here I will most likely always be seen as a man in a dress. I have slim to no chance to ever be on the outside what I am on the inside.
So I guess there is not much for us older TS people to look forward to.
Maybe we should just ............
Jillieann

Jillieann. you look like a woman with very short hair in the pic.......you have small facial feature's which always helps and you don't look 50..

Age is nothing to do with anything. I've seen cool looking TS's who are 50 and some not so cool TS's at 20........
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Enigma

Since I sort of got this tangent started, consider the pros and cons of transitioning early vs late anways...

For the, well really handful of young ones that are full time in grade school, I think I stated this somewhere earlier that their incongruence is so catastropic, they have no other choice if they don't intend to implode.  Sounds like nirvana, right?  Consider that they often aren't stealth since they didn't start grade school that way.  Its bad enough being known as "a girl with a dick" when you're an adult, imagine hearing that when you're 10.  Consider that most of them were so blatently suicidal and/or self mutilating before going FT that their parents were on a constant state of readiness to keep all the windows locked (becuase they'd explicitly threatened to jump out of the windows otherwise) and all sharp objects accounted for.  Imagine a panic attack so bad you turn blue.  Consider the threats not only they but their families get on a regular basis.  Have siblings?  Do you think they might just resent that you've more or less taken any sense of a "normal" childhood from them, do you think maybe they get threatened too and lose friends because of it?  If you're lucky you're only meeting with your therapist twice a week, you and your family. Don't think this is just about you.

Now on the other hand, they get to at least have childhood memories of growing up in the right gender, and as appealing as it may be, I wonder if its worth the trauma sometimes.

So wait until you're in your teens/early 20s to transistion.  I tried that (I was 23), even with a good job, its easy to burn through a lot of money, quickly.  Its not fun being broke and it not fun aborting your transition either, but money is a finite resource and its easy to ruin yourself financially if you don't have much of a safety cushion to begin with.  I'm getting away from myself, but its hard enough to mature from a teenager to an adult, let alone transition from one gender to the next.  True, many early transitioners succeed, but many also fail and pay the direst of consequences.

Wait until the early beginnings of your adulthood (25 - 35)?  Maybe a better idea, but you've got a whole working life ahead of you and very little of it behind you.  How will you explain yourself to your future employers, your future significant others.  The lack of assets is still a struggle, but at least, hopefully, you're educated and able to keep a roof over your head.  Maybe its better that way.  I don't know, just don't believe everything you hear that you have to transition before your 25 or you'll just be another man in a dress.  Oh and my favorite, here begins the argument between the younger ones and the older ones about who's really a TS, which is just to say "I'm more TS then you".  Who's side are you on?  You're too old for the college crowd and too young for the older crowd?

So you've lived a full life and you're tired of the constant struggle, but confident you have the financial resources to "make it work".  How about the loss of your relationships?  Divorce is expensive, so is losing that job that you were sure would be accepting of your transition.  Oh they didn't fire you for being TS, just so happens that after you started wearing a dress to work, your performance evaluations tanked as well.  Good luck finding a new job with a 20+ year career history as John, not Jane, to explain.

Ok so I'm overdramatizing a little, but there are pros and cons to the transition at each stage of life.  Its universal that we all struggle, but we are our own worst enemies.  And no matter what, even the 10 y/o's that are full time are going to look at the generation after them (that get treated no differently then anyother boy or girl) and think "they don't know how easy they've got it", just remember that the generation that came before you thinks the same thing about you.
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shanetastic

I completely agree with you Enigma.  I used to hate myself and my life so much in high school that I graduated early and tries to run away from everything and everyone when I was 17.  Needless to say, it didn't work.  But what I'm trying to get here is that like you said, it's difficult to find a "right time" to transition.  Especially when your already on the verge of perhaps doing something stupid to yourself you know?  As much as I would have loved to transition when I was younger, I had no choice but to wait because it just wouldn't have worked.

And just when you get to that point where you can't live with this anymore and feel that it's appropriate, it's still a bad timing I think.  Despite me being done with college until September, I still have to go to a whole new school, and have no idea what to expect in 11 more months of HRT as well.  So, there are indeed pros and cons to this for sure, but in the end, hopefully it will all work out somehow.  I guess life being perfect for us is far out of the picture eh :P

And as for the teenage transition, I have to say I've been saving money for five years for this, and if it were't for my parents, it probably be gone in a heardbeat.  Not really poor planning, just this takes a lot of money as you all probably know.  So your right, every age group has a disadvantage, but sooner or later the time will come when you just have to do it you know?
trying to live life one day at a time
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Nero

Quote from: Enigma on November 09, 2007, 11:57:33 AM
Since I sort of got this tangent started, consider the pros and cons of transitioning early vs late anways...

For the, well really handful of young ones that are full time in grade school, I think I stated this somewhere earlier that their incongruence is so catastropic, they have no other choice if they don't intend to implode.  Sounds like nirvana, right?  Consider that they often aren't stealth since they didn't start grade school that way.  Its bad enough being known as "a girl with a dick" when you're an adult, imagine hearing that when you're 10.  Consider that most of them were so blatently suicidal and/or self mutilating before going FT that their parents were on a constant state of readiness to keep all the windows locked (becuase they'd explicitly threatened to jump out of the windows otherwise) and all sharp objects accounted for.  Imagine a panic attack so bad you turn blue.  Consider the threats not only they but their families get on a regular basis.  Have siblings?  Do you think they might just resent that you've more or less taken any sense of a "normal" childhood from them, do you think maybe they get threatened too and lose friends because of it?  If you're lucky you're only meeting with your therapist twice a week, you and your family. Don't think this is just about you.

Now on the other hand, they get to at least have childhood memories of growing up in the right gender, and as appealing as it may be, I wonder if its worth the trauma sometimes.

I think you're missing something. Some of us were exactly like the children you described, but we weren't so fortunate to grow up in a time such as this. The professionals certainly didn't suggest transition back then, and if they had, it's doubtful our parents would've went along with it.
Instead, I was diagnosed with all number of things in an attempt to explain my 'behavioural problems'.
Children who transition today are much better off than those of us who had to suffer through childhood as the wrong gender. Believe me, that's far more torturous than being lucky enough to be yourself at such a young age.
Nero was the Forum Admin here at Susan's Place for several years up to the time of his death.
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Enigma

Quote from: Nero on November 09, 2007, 01:14:07 PM

I think you're missing something. Some of us were exactly like the children you described, but we weren't so fortunate to grow up in a time such as this. The professionals certainly didn't suggest transition back then, and if they had, it's doubtful our parents would've went along with it.
Instead, I was diagnosed with all number of things in an attempt to explain my 'behavioural problems'.
Children who transition today are much better off than those of us who had to suffer through childhood as the wrong gender. Believe me, that's far more torturous than being lucky enough to be yourself at such a young age.

I would agree with you there, I think more what I was trying to get at is no transition scenario is perfect.  Not only that, but there will always be the broad spectrum of transition expereience from 10 - 100 (ok well maybe not 100), simply becuase of the diversity of human beings.  A 10 year old today in an affirming enviroment can assert their true gender identity, or they can just as equally be terrified of the truth and wait until they're 100, despite the fact that all it takes to get all the love and support to transition successfully is saying "I'm a..."
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melissa90299

Quote from: Kate on November 05, 2007, 10:50:07 AM
Quote from: Cire on November 05, 2007, 10:30:43 AM
FFS is such a nice option because hormones can't do alot. They soften your male face, not change it into a female face.

FFS is more effective for sure, but HRT alone CAN give you a female face... if by that we mean the ability to walk outside, without makeup or any other "props," and consistently be seen by everyone as a female.

~Kate~

I guess it just depends where you walk.
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cindianna_jones

NOOOOOO!  Don't change anything!  You are beautiful! 

Chin up!

Cindi
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Keira


For some Melissa, it doesn't depend on where you walk.
If you 5 foot 6 without significant brow bossing and a thin nose
and a small chin (height and width) and a small body frame (for a man), you don't need FFS to pass. I know plenty of TS who started at that level.

For others, sure, it depends where they walk.

For some, no matter where they walk its a problem (FFS is their only solution).
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Rachael

where you walk? ah, geographical passing :P
if i walk down this street, ill get read, this one, stealth street! :P
daft concept :P
and dont claim San Fransisco again, its only relevant if your borderline passable :P
Kiera is right, not everyone needs ffs, it depends on what you have :P you can only work with whats there... some people are just genetically lucky.
R :police:
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Enigma

Truthfullly, I would put FFS on the same level as any plastic surgery procedure.  Just my opinion, but I think "passing" as it applies to FFS is the really just the same as saying "I don't like the way I look".  Passing or not passing has relatively little to do with it in that regard.

Non-TS people get plastic surgery all the time to improve their looks, why not TS people?  At the end of the day, it takes more then FFS to "pass" anyways.

For the record, there are always exceptions...  :)
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